Would you have liked to have Kane Hodder in the remake?

[Big Bad Wolf]

Well? What do you guys think? I'd rather not, honestly, because IMO, he made Jason a cartoon character, and in a way contributed to the decline in quality Friday films. But, that's just me.

[The New Blood]

I wouldn't mind seeing him as Jason again. He does a pretty good job at it. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can do better though.

[Wheatjedi]

I wouldn't mind, but I don't really care either way. I don't think he had anything to do with the decline in quality of the series though.

[The Dream Master]

I pretty much agree with Wheat. I always thought Kane did a good job in the role, but he was never my favorite. I really enjoyed the enthusiasm he had for the role for sure. If he were cast in the new F13 film, I'd welcome it.

That said, I wouldn't mind if someone else took over the role again, either.

[DRE]

I wouldn't mind his return and I wouldn't mind if he never returned. He made his mark and brought something fresh to the character of Jason, no one can ever take that away from him, but right now I'm for a new man behind the mask, as long as he isn't named Ken Kirzinger or Andrew Bryniarski.

Though I may be singing a different tune after I see Hatchet.

[girlychaos]

I would actually like seeing him as Jason again. I always thought he did a nice job and....even though it doesn't take an Oscar winner actor to play Jason, it makes all the difference when someone puts effort into playing him, and Kane has always done it.

[Erik]

I'm all for him to reprise the role. I wouldn't be too hurt if he weren't cast, but I would prefer to see him play Jason again.

[Utellme]

I would like to see Kane as Jason i don't think it was a accident he played Jason for 4 movies they knew they found quality.

[Kane Lives]

Sure, I'd like to see Kane play Jason again.

[DRE]

Wow, the Hodder factor seems to be MUCH more positive here than it was at the original forum. Back then you couldn't say his name without getting a roar of flames. I'm impressed.

[Autobotsdie]

Hell yeah! Who knows better about playing the part of Jason than Kane Hodder.

[Big Bad Wolf]

I would like to see Kane as Jason i don't think it was a accident he played Jason for 4 movies they knew they found quality.

Actually, it was because when they were about to cast Kirzinger for 8, he threw a hissy fit, but instead of standing tall, they gave in and let Kane come back. Seems to me he didn't understand the usual routine that was with casting Jason up until that point.

[Rich]

He didn't contribute to the quality of the films either way. He did not write or direct any of them. All he did was play the zombie version of Jason to perfection. Not that I ever see it happening now, but if they ever made a new movie with the zombie version of Jason I would love to see Kane be Jason again, because to me Kane is [zombie] Jason. If they make a new movie with the Jason that is more human I would like Andrew who plays the new Leatherface to be Jason.

[Germaniac]

In the words of Darth Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Jigsaw]

I don't really care if he ever returns or not, but having to choose between yes or no, I'd say no. He was excellent in TNB but only average in Parts 8-10 IMO.

[Deathscythe]

I voted Hell yeah!, but now I that I rethink about, I don't really care.

My favorite Jason would be C.J Graham, I wanna see him come back.

[Just Jeans]

I voted option three. I wouldn't mind seeing Kane back, but I won't cry if he's not involved. He was good in the role, but I don't consider him the Holy Grail of Friday the 13th, so if they decide to hire someone new, I'm down with that.

Kane's enthusiasm for the role and his love for the genre is infectious, but in so far as his performance, he wasn't any better than the rest of the guys who've done it before and after. He just did it differently.

He didn't contribute to the quality of the films either way. He did not write or direct any of them.

I dunno about that. I've heard reports that Kane often got his way in terms of how to play Jason. If he didn't want to do it a certain way, he wouldn't. He always did it his way. I'd say he did more to fashion the portrayal of his Jason than any of the filmmakers who've directed him.

[Speck]

It really don't matter to me. I personally wouldn't mind seeing CJ Graham reprise his role of Jason, but I know there's little chance of that happening.

[Just Jeans]

Yeah, I'd probably throw my support behind CJ too, just because I'd like to see him get a second go. He was the one-shot-wonder that I really wanted back for a sequel.

[Jigsaw]

I'd love to see C.J. back as well. He's my favorite Jason and for him to be back in the role would be awesome in every way.

[CampNewBlood]

I wouldn't mind at all. I liked him as Jason.

[Wheatjedi]

C.J. did a great job in Jason Lives. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back. I remember a Fango two-part article in which the first six Jasons were interviewed (this was prior to The New Blood) in which he said he would love to play Jason again.

[DRE]

CJ is also a Kane supporter, and Hodder has cited CJ as his favorite Jason actor (Other than himself, of course.)

I'd welcome CJ back. I'd also welcome Michael Bailey Smith to the role of Human Jason.

[Wheatjedi]

CJ is also a Kane supporter, and Hodder has sited CJ as his favorite Jason actor (Other than himself, of course.)

Yeah... they do seem to get along very well together. That's the impression I got from the Jason Forever DVD.

[Lammert]

No Kane or Ken, I want a fresh Jason this time!

[SmiTheReeNs*]

I wouldnt mind him back to play the role as Jason..he cares about the character so much. thats what Friday the 13th franchise needs somebody who plays the role for dedication not jus for a paycheck..

[Kat]

I wouldn't mind, but I don't really care either way. I don't think he had anything to do with the decline in quality of the series though.

Only thing about Hodder was the fact he was always like "Jason wouldn't do that". While in some cases it was great, in others it wasn't. I honestly think that while Hodder loved the Character and was pretty good at playing Jason, he wasn't the best. Sadly, I feel the only reason people loved him as Jason was he played Jason more than once. Either way, I don't care if he comes back. I'd be happy if he did and happy if he didn't.

[Rich]

I dunno about that. I've heard reports that Kane often got his way in terms of how to play Jason. If he didn't want to do it a certain way, he wouldn't. He always did it his way. I'd say he did more to fashion the portrayal of his Jason than any of the filmmakers who've directed him

Yeah, but that was just on how he played Jason. He still had nothing to do with script writing, directing, camera work, the score etc. A lot more then just the Jason actor determines whether a movie is good or not. Example, Jason Takes Manhattan I do not think it a good movie, despite loving Kane's performance in it.

[jackdeth]

I liked Kane Hodder in each of the films he was in but... I think it's time to give someone else the role. Switch it up abit.:)

[kramerfan]

I love him in 7 but after that not as good.I want someone new.

[The Tall Man]

Rich, exactly right. I love Kane's performance in 8 while it's lacking cinematically.

In fact, I'm the opposite of the rest of you. I love Kanes performances in 8-10. But I think he's exceedingly mediocre in 7. He just trudges along with a general malaise. Ho-hum. He's much more energetic in the ones after that.

T.M.

[Autobotsdie]

Hodder just makes Jason seem believable.

[Rich]

Rich, exactly right. I love Kane's performance in 8 while it's lacking cinematically.

In fact, I'm the opposite of the rest of you. I love Kanes performances in 8-10. But I think he's exceedingly mediocre in 7. He just trudges along with a general malaise. Ho-hum. He's much more energetic in the ones after that.

T.M.

That could have been a story element though because in 7 remember he was just brought back to life after being under the water for at least ten years. His bones (whatever was left of them) had to be stiff as hell. I know mine are stiff in the mourning after one night, so I can only imagine Jason's body parts needing time to be oiled by movement.

Also, in Part 7, I'm sure Kane was getting a feel for the character, and by Part 8, he figured out excactly how he wanted Jason to be seen by audiences.

I thought he was great in New Blood as well as the rest, but performance wise, I agree he was much more energetic in 8-10. I think most people say the opposite just because they don't like the movies as much, but his performance was better in 8-10, but in the end of 7 when his mask came off, he did an awesome acting job with Jason's facial expressions.

[sCabbOy]

Nah.

I say some new, better stuntman.

Let's have Kane keep up with the crappy serial killer portrayals. Gein, now BTK and who's next Ted Bundy?

[The Tall Man]

Rich, I agree once the mask came off, Kane started stepping up acting and energy wise, but for me it was too little too late.

I'd agree with what you said about Jason's body, but they really needed to make more of a deal of it if that's what they were going for. Maybe show Jason a little surprised he's so slowed down.

T.M.

[DRE]

Nah.

I say some new, better stuntman.

Let's have Kane keep up with the crappy serial killer portrayals. Gein, now BTK and who's next Ted Bundy?


I think he did a good job in the Gein film, if you don't look at it as a Gein film.


http://joblo.com/images_arrownews/btkkane3.jpg

I'm looking forward to this film, Arrow in the Head says it's his best bit of acting (without a mask or prosthetics) yet, and he certainly looks more like BTK (Dennis Rader) then he did Ed Gein.


http://joblo.com/images_arrownews/btkkane1.jpg

This feels very familiar to me.

[sCabbOy]

He did do good, but it was hard for me not to compare him to Gein. I'd like the movie better if it was just a movie inspired by Gein and not marketed AS Gein.

[Melanie Jarvis]

I would want him back because he seems to be the only one that actually gives a damn.

[sCabbOy]

I disagree.

Dash, Brooker, Graham, Morga and Kenzinger all loved the role, gave a damn/their all, and supports the role to this day.

Even White gave a damn. White did not like the movie, but he is a professional stuntman and gave his all. I think saying he's the only one who gave a damn somehow says that all of the rest didn't give a damn about the role.

I have a fango from 1988 right before F13th VII and Kane said he hopes he can be Jason again- he loved the role. Same thing Dash, Brooker, Morga and Graham said. In fact Dash was asked back for Part 3 and he accepted but he then declined because his airfare, food and lodging wouldn't be paid for. Dash was working on a soap at the time and was being paid more than he'd make.

[Utellme]

Problem Scab is the actors from part 3,4,5 some complained some made fun of it.In fact i don't think actors for these 3 was at the Jason actors convention/interviews but all the others were maybe they had a good reason or maybe they were ashamed of the role.

[DRE]

I believe you're right Utellme, and it seems a lot of these actors didn't even come out of the wood works until AFTER FvsJ made Jason fashionable again. In fact, Brooker and Graham were the only ones who said it was a positive experience. Morga and Dash only recently began coming forth about their roles. Ted always had something negative to say and Wieand said he wish it would just go away.

[sCabbOy]

I've never heard Dash, Brooker, GRaham or Morga say anything negative about the role. I'm sure if they did I can be proven wrong.

Gillette and Brooker came out in 2004 that I am sure of. Dash came out a little later because he realized someone else was taking credit for his work. Most probably stepped away from the "scene" because of their other successes in different careers. Can't really put blame on their ignorance of the fan backing.

But they all admit they never came out because they were unaware of the fan backing from the movies. I believe James Winburn from Halloween was the same. He came out a few years back when Warlock asked him why he doesn't go to conventions. He said "what's a horror convention?".

Dash tried once, when Gillette, Weiand and... Hodder (I think) were on Good Morning America. He let them know that Gillette was not the practical Jason of the movie- he was. They ignored him. Morga and Dash never came out (both acknowledged this) because they were not credited as the practical "Jason" and therefore were never notified, asked, or mentioned in conventions until it was made light that they were.

I mean, why blame them and say they did not 1) take the role seriously or 2) gave the role less respect than Kane?. I dunno, I think it's a bit wrong to do so.

Like I said, they all did good jobs and all supported the role at the time. Time went on and they were forgotten when the new Jason came. If Kane was replaced in Part 8 I'm sure the same would have happened to him until around 2004 when the WWW horror fansite explosion started to find these people.

[Rick]

If they are doing a remake they want to start fresh and I'm sure with the exceptions of the basics that'll go for Jason too.
I hope they get someone fresh to do it.
If they for some reason continue the original series (FvsJ2 was mentioned as having always been a possibility by Wes Reviews I think, a reliable "little birdie" told him) I say go with someone new there too.

[Josh1971]

No Kane or Ken, I want a fresh Jason this time!


I'm with Lammert on this one.

jb

[Rich]

I'd agree with what you said about Jason's body, but they really needed to make more of a deal of it if that's what they were going for. Maybe show Jason a little surprised he's so slowed down

That would have been kind of funny (but realistic) if when Jason first came out of the lake, for him to move like Tarman a little bit until he remembered how to fully gain control over his bodily functions.

[Ron]

I don't think we'll ever see Hodder as Jason again. Now he has his own horror icon, Victor Crowley, to build up from scratch. Nevertheless, I think Kane Hodder was a great Jason who truly had a respect for the character and the fans of the films.

[Rich]

I agree with you Pete. I remember when I met him. He was so cool and gave every person as much time as they wanted. Kane basically hung out with me and a bunch of other fans for a while at a Chiller Theater convention before FVJ came out. He was such a cool guy.

As of late it seems to be the new thing for fans to bash his character, but as someone who has actually personally met the man, I'm here to tell you, he is a really cool dude and loves to talk Jason with the fans. At one point we were even talking about Friday Part 5, and he had nothing bad to say about it. I'm not sure if he ever saw the movie, but he had nothing but respect for people's opinions, including those who did not like some of the films he was in. To me, that was really cool of him.

[Rick]

A lot of the fans who bash Hodder have never met the guy like you have. All they have to go on is Hodder's comments and the way he handled not getting FvsJ.
I did meet Hodder and I agree that he was a really nice guy. But I can also see where the people who bash him are coming from.
I've read the comments he's made, the interviews and the transcripts of what was said at certain conventions after he didn't get the roll.
The guy may love the character, the guy may be really nice in person but he acted really childishly and handled it in a way that made a lot of people lose respect for him.

[sCabbOy]

Rightfully so. If I ave never met Kane all I'd have to go by was his comments and his attitude. We can't all meet people we disagree with.

[D-Lo]

I'd love to see him reprise the role for nostalgia reasons. Other than that, really it doesn't matter who plays Jason

[The 5th Golden Girl]

Ugh, no. Kane Hodder is nothing special. He shouldn't be held in the same regard as Robert Englund (and to a lesser extent, Gunnar Hansen) as he only played Jason four times, and three of those performances were in the three movies that are constantly competing with one another as the worst in the series (parts 8, 9, and 10).

Plus it puts me off that he thinks he's Jason. There were much better Jasons before him and may be after him.

I want to see what others can do with Jason. If Warrington Gillette had stayed, we wouldn't have gotten the AWESOME that is Richard Brooker, and if he'd stayed, we wouldn't have gotten the other Jasons in the series. I don't much care for Ken's version, whether it be Ronny Yu's direction or not, but I'd much rather see someone else give it a go than go back to tired, old, head-tilting, heavy-breathing, "Jason doesn't do that" Kane Hodder.

[Ron]

I bet Hodder felt mighty stupid that he didn't get chosen for Freddy vs Jason.

[sCabbOy]

I think it's better to compare Kane to George P Wilbur orAndrew Bryniarski. He came back in a role of a popular slasher, but he wasn't the first (or in a lot of opinions- the best) and won't be the last.

Everyone else moved on when they were replaced, glad Kane finally has in some regard.

[Ron]

I wish him the best. Now he can feel content in developing his own character from scratch.

[Nancy Thompson]

I could care less tell you the truth. I guess if they gonna make another movie they should get him or Ken or CJ back.

[Ron]

Or maybe even a new actor.

[sCabbOy]

I'd disagree with CJ not because he sucked- he was really good, but because it's been 20 years since he acted and at the same time did stunts.

As for Kane, he's working on a new flick where he plays the BTK killer. Unless that one has already been finished.

[DRE]

Unlike Wilbur though, Kane has the benefit of being the best known Jason, so there is always a chance for his return. With new young directors growing up in his era (A reason he is getting all the work he is now) and with some of the people who blocked him from FvsJ at New Line basically gone (Jeff Katz, Ronny Yu), there is a much better chance for his return than any of the others (Including Ken Kirzinger.)

Who's to say Platinum Dunes won't look at Hatchet and say "That director has a great style, we should get him for the remake!" and give Adam Green the job, who do you think he's gonna want for his Jason?

I'm just putting it out there that there is always a chance for Hodder's return.

[Ron]

I don't think that Kane would give them the time of day now. I'm sure he feels really betrayed.

[Erik]

I'd love to see him reprise the role for nostalgia reasons. Other than that, really it doesn't matter who plays Jason

Well, it does matter who plays Jason. It just doesn't have to be Kane.

[sCabbOy]

If Platinum Dunes does indeed to the Friday film, wasn't it already said in a commentary that Bryniarski would be amongst the top candidates? Scary thought.

[Ron]

yeah I recall hearing that too. meh, just another guy in a mask.

[Rich]

I think Andrew would make an awesome human version of Jason. For reasons Dre already said, Kane does have a chance at coming back if they do another zombie Jason movie.

[Rick]

If Platinum Dunes does indeed to the Friday film, wasn't it already said in a commentary that Bryniarski would be amongst the top candidates? Scary thought.

I remember Byniarski posting something, maybe on Guts and Glory, saying that he contacted the Platinum Dunes guys and told them he wanted to be considered but I don't recall any one but Byniarski himself ever saying he was up for the roll.
Of course I may just have missed it.

[BlakeTyner]

I'm good either way, really. Kane isn't my favorite Jason (I think he's 3rd in my rankings) but it's obvious the dude cares about the character. If they used him again I'd have no problem with it. If they used Ken again, same thing. I'm also fine if they get a complete unknown.

~Blake

[The Tall Man]

with some of the people who blocked him from FvsJ at New Line basically gone (Jeff Katz, Ronny Yu), there is a much better chance for his return than any of the others (Including Ken Kirzinger.)
Jeff didn't block Kane. Nor did Yu exactly. No, Kane was cock-blocked by Stokley Chakin... whom you should be double pissed at. David Goyer got to touch up FvsJ because he was sleeping with her... and he's the one who penned the immortal line "Freddy died by fire, Jason by water, how can we use that."

Bitch.

I don't think that Kane would give them the time of day now.
Kane said on the Box Set Extra DVD that he'd look past it and don the mask again.

T.M.

[DRE]

I actually knew it was Ms. Chaffin that did it, but since she is still very active at New Line I didn't include her or the other culprit Doug Curtis in my line up.

But I don't think they would give it a second thought now if Kane did return, they already made the film they wanted and have moved on.

[Denzil]

I'm not really bothered if Kane comes back or not.

[sCabbOy]

I think Kane would be stupid to let the FvJ thing deter him. I don't blame him for going either way, but Kane's a great guy and even though I didn't like most of his Jasons he will want what his fans want and that's to be Jason.

I think if he was ever asked to come back that he would.

[Deathscythe]

I was at the Friday the 13th flims webpage and was reading Kane Hodders profile:

At the Fangoria convention in January 2004, he was asked about how he felt about Jason's look in Freddy vs. Jason. Kane replied, 'I guess they wanted Jason to look like a skinny little bitch this time...'

That made me laugh, but isn't Ken actually taller than Kane?

[Jigsaw]

He sure is (not by much though, Ken is 6'5" and Kane is 6'3").

[Ron]

I was at the Friday the 13th flims webpage and was reading Kane Hodders profile:

At the Fangoria convention in January 2004, he was asked about how he felt about Jason's look in Freddy vs. Jason. Kane replied, 'I guess they wanted Jason to look like a skinny little bitch this time...'

That made laugh, but isn't Ken actually taller than Kane?

That was a real mature comment on the part of Hodder.

[DRE]

I don't agree with Kane saying that about poor Ken, who genuinely seems like a good guy, but I can understand his anger and frustration.

I hope they have since made up and returned to being buddies.

[Jigsaw]

I don't agree with Kane saying that about poor Ken, who genuinely seems like a good guy, but I can understand his anger and frustration.

I hope they have since made up and returned to being buddies.


Me too. Kane's frustration is understandable but that's no reason for him to berate Ken like that. Ken himself even acknowledged that he knew he had a big task when he was asked to replace Kane for FVJ and was well-aware of Kane's following, and he had nothing but good things to say about Kane and his portrayal of Jason. I hope that the two have mended their feelings. It's neither one's fault that Kane got the shaft.

And for the record, Stokely Chaffin should never be involved with an F13 film ever again. Not because she didn't want Kane back as Jason (I'm not Kane's biggest fan myself), but because she wanted a lot of the FVJ script shortened which I think hurt the movie a great deal, since so much was omitted.

[sCabbOy]

Maybe I'm too laid back and passive but I can;t understand his frustration towards Ken. Maybe towards NLC, not Ken since all he could do was turn the role down and then they would have used someone other than Ken or Kane.

[Rick]

Maybe I'm too laid back and passive but I can;t understand his frustration towards Ken. Maybe towards NLC, not Ken since all he could do was turn the role down and then they would have used someone other than Ken or Kane.

I agree.
Don't blame the person who had nothing to do with him not getting the job.
By the time Ken had anything to do with the movie Kane was already out of the running.

[DRE]

Maybe I'm too laid back and passive but I can;t understand his frustration towards Ken. Maybe towards NLC, not Ken since all he could do was turn the role down and then they would have used someone other than Ken or Kane.

I understand his frustration at the situation at hand, causing him to lash out at all involved. Some people handle it better than others, but no one has the right to fault the guy for how he felt at the time. Cooler heads prevail, and hopefully he has learned that.

[CrazyCamper]

Where are all the Kane fans? I feel like a big dork here...worshipping all on my own. :p

[Ron]

I like Kane alright as Jason, I've just never really had much of a preference.

[Jigsaw]

My favorite Jason actors are C.J. Graham, Ted White and Richard Brooker. When I think of Jason they're the three actors who to me helped to shape the character. That's not to say Kane didn't make his contribution either, but these three IMO made the character what he is.

[Ron]

There's probably some other guys out there that wouldn't do a bad job that haven't even got there turn yet.

[Jigsaw]

I agree. Kane's problem is that he seems to think that he did the most for Jason and was the only actor to give him any character. His dedication and care for the character is great, but he's too self-centered with his portrayal. I think all of the pre-Kane Jasons and even Ken's Jason displayed a lot more personality and character than Kane's did.

[Deathscythe]

I liked C.J. Graham the best, but to be honest I like all the Jason actors.

[Jigsaw]

I like all of the Jason actors too, and I'm not berating Kane, I'm just saying that he wasn't the best and not as great as he thinks he is.

[Ron]

I like all of the Jason actors too, and I'm not berating Kane, I'm just saying that he wasn't the best and not as great as he thinks he is.

I agree with you on this one. I don't think playing Jason is actually an art form, I mean, you don't really need to be classically trained to play the part.

[DRE]

I agree. Kane's problem is that he seems to think that he did the most for Jason and was the only actor to give him any character. His dedication and care for the character is great, but he's too self-centered with his portrayal. I think all of the pre-Kane Jasons and even Ken's Jason displayed a lot more personality and character than Kane's did.

Huh? Kirzinger added more personality to Jason? Um...

Digger, you're my mate and all, but you can't honestly believe that everyone other than Hodder brought something to the character, that's just ludicrous.

Dash established a tone, Brooker added a disturbed quality, White added brooding and menace, Graham added true force and Hodder added total raging intensity. They all (With the sole exception of Ronny Yu Jason) brought something to the role, Hodder just had more of a chance to show his version, and he did it different or added something new each time out.

So the man is proud of the work he did and thinks he is the best, so what? Each of the actors think they are the best Jason and that's fine, aren't we all told to believe we are the best at everything we do?

Now, I would like someone explain to me what Yu/Kirzinger brought to the role? I saw nothing new in that portrayal, only a "Myers" type of stand still (And that's not new to Jason either, CJ did it first.)

[sCabbOy]

I agree Dre, every actor (including Kirzinger) added a lot to the role. I think the ones who added LESS (than the others) are Kirzinger and Graham, but that's besides the point being made.

[Rick]

The main difference with FvsJ was that Jason was written with a little story around him this time.
We saw into his past, saw his mother again and got a little look into his subconscious, there was also at least a little emotion to the character.
We haven't seen writing like that for Jason since parts 1 and 2, and 3 since we learn that he attacked Chris so we know he had a sex drive of some sort.
In terms of adding to the character Yu added a Frankenstein-like quality and revisited part 6 in terms of Jason standing statue-still until he had something to do, that was pretty much it.

[DRE]

The main difference with FvsJ was that Jason was written with a little story around him this time.
We saw into his past, saw his mother again and got a little look into his subconscious, there was also at least a little emotion to the character.
We haven't seen writing like that for Jason since parts 1 and 2, and 3 since we learn that he attacked Chris so we know he had a sex drive of some sort.
In terms of adding to the character Yu added a Frankenstein-like quality and revisited part 6 in terms of Jason standing statue-still until he had something to do, that was pretty much it.

Jason Lives began the Frankenstein motif (And not just because of the way he returned) and the stand still, so Yu didn't really add anything. The emotional Jason was there from Part 2, so again, there was nothing new. I don't blame Ken Kirzinger for this though, because I believe the man really wanted to do something more with the character but Iron Fist Yu had his grip tight on the leash.

I can say this though, if anyone actually deserves a second shot at playing Jason it is Kirzinger, because the poor man never had a chance. With that said, I still don't like his body type for Jason, but that change may be needed now to counterpoint Zombie's golly green giant Myers.

[The Tall Man]

Dre... dress Ken better and you may like him better. Ken steps out of the subway car to be thrown into the tracks AND takes the whirl on the hood of the police care in Part 8.

T.M.

[DRE]

Those scenes (Even before we found out they were Ken) always stuck out like sore thumbs to me. I always felt there was something off about "Kane" in those scenes, and then when it was revealed that Ken had doubled Kane in a couple shots I called those two scenes right off the bat, as it turned out those were the exact scenes.

[Kane Lives]

I wasn't tipped off during the scene where Jason was hit by the car, but I too always thought that Jason stepping off the subway didn't look like Kane.

[Jigsaw]

Huh? Kirzinger added more personality to Jason? Um...

Digger, you're my mate and all, but you can't honestly believe that everyone other than Hodder brought something to the character, that's just ludicrous.

Dash established a tone, Brooker added a disturbed quality, White added brooding and menace, Graham added true force and Hodder added total raging intensity. They all (With the sole exception of Ronny Yu Jason) brought something to the role, Hodder just had more of a chance to show his version, and he did it different or added something new each time out.

So the man is proud of the work he did and thinks he is the best, so what? Each of the actors think they are the best Jason and that's fine, aren't we all told to believe we are the best at everything we do?

Now, I would like someone explain to me what Yu/Kirzinger brought to the role? I saw nothing new in that portrayal, only a "Myers" type of stand still (And that's not new to Jason either, CJ did it first.)


Kane's Jason IMO is too much like a monster and lacks some of the qualities that made the character intriguing for me. And Kane's "Jason wouldn't do that" routine is very annoying and disrespectful to the past actors IMO.

[DRE]

Kane's Jason IMO is too much like a monster and lacks some of the qualities that made the character intriguing for me. And Kane's "Jason wouldn't do that" routine is very annoying and disrespectful to the past actors IMO.

Well, at that point in the series he WAS a monster. Kane only took what Graham had done and added his own touches to it.

As far as "Jason wouldn't do that" goes:

"He wouldn't kick a dog" Oh well.

"He wouldn't run" By that time, it would have looked pretty stupid if this big dead guy ran through the woods, so he chose not to have his Jason run. Big deal. It really looked awkward when CJ was power walking so I can only imagine how goofy Hodder would have looked running (I guess we'll know when "Hatchet" comes outs because Crowley runs.)

"He wouldn't let Jim Isaac have Jason do something totally out of character in Jason X" And this is a bad thing how? "Jason wouldn't do that" puts more restrictions on the bad things than it does good.

But I understand and respect that he's not your favorite, and has said some out of line things in the past, but no one can deny that the guy at least cared enough to try and bring something more to the Jason table than the norm.

[Jigsaw]

Kane's dedication to Jason is great, but IMO he's too self-centered about the part. He talks like he's the only one who did anything for the character. And with C.J.'s Jason, there were at least some traits of the human Jason from Parts 2-4, but with Kane, Jason became more and more like a zombie Terminator and the character sometimes didn't even feel like the same that he was in the pre-JTM films.

[CrazyCamper]

Kane's portrayal IS very monster-like. Which is what I like! "Humanlike" Jason just isn't scary, IMO.

[Ron]

I disagree, I prefer a more humanlike Jason than a zombie Jason.

[DRE]

Jason evolved, and had ten movies to do it. Zombie-like was the direction Jason Lives took it in, that's the blueprint future writers followed and that's what the future actors played. None of that was Graham or Hodder's fault, Jason was written that way now.

[Erik]

The only way you'll ever get out of the zombie Jason bit is if they do the remake that they've been planning.

[The Dream Master]

Even then, who knows what they'll do. They might have Jason be a zombie from the beginning for all we know.

[Ron]

I'm all for anything that will make Jason human again.

[DRE]

I think they'll go for a more human Jason in the remake, maybe not *THE* human Jason but more so than the last decade.

[Erik]

Even then, who knows what they'll do. They might have Jason be a zombie from the beginning for all we know.

I hope not. I'd like to see them take another swing at human Jason.

[Killa Pimp]

I don't think it matters.
If Platinum Dunes wants Hodder, he'll be Jason.
(if they ever get around to making the damn thing)

If they decide to go in a new direction, they will do just that.

I just want a good movie to get the franchise going again, no matter who is "Behind the Mask" (pardon the pun)

[Ron]

I don't think it matters.
If Platinum Dunes wants Hodder, he'll be Jason.
(if they ever get around to making the damn thing)

If they decide to go in a new direction, they will do just that.

I just want a good movie to get the franchise going again, no matter who is "Behind the Mask" (pardon the pun)

As long as it's NOT Leslie Vernon...

[The Tall Man]

It really looked awkward when CJ was power walking so I can only imagine how goofy Hodder would have looked running
Man, I totally can't get behind that. I absolutely LOVE the way C.J. marches through "Jason Lives". It makes Jason far more intimidating than he was before. He just looked like he was gonna get you and there was nothing you could do about it. And I loved all the energy behind it as well.

T.M.

[Jigsaw]

I always liked C.J's speedwalking in Jason Lives too. They should definitely bring that back IMO.

[Ron]

I liked C.J's walk, but he was probably just chaffing because the clothes were so tight.

[The Dream Master]

I hope not. I'd like to see them take another swing at human Jason.

I hope so, too, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we got a Jason that resembled the portrayal of the last few movies. Ideally, if there has to be a remake, I'd like to see a Jason similar to his appearance in part two.

[CrazyCamper]

Even then, who knows what they'll do. They might have Jason be a zombie from the beginning for all we know.

I hope not. While I DO prefer zombie Jason, I also like his "evolution." I think he should have started out humanlike, as he did.

[Ron]

I find a more human like Jason to be a little scarier because it's more realistic. If I wanted to see zombies I'd watch NOTLD or DOTD.

[sCabbOy]

I wouldn't even consider Jason a zombie, he's alive but dead which makes him undead. But, I guess it's all semantics. I never liked the undead Jason, not because of the people who played him but because the directors always went down a non-scary road with Jason.

[The Dream Master]

I think the two scariest moments involving Jason happened in part two, when he was human. The first is when he runs across the road in front of the police officer, and the other is the shot when you can see him running outside, about to burst into the shack at the end of the film. I find both moments to be effective because there's something creepy about seeing a killer for a fleeting moment at the corners of your screen like that.

Once Jason became a zombie, you didn't have moments like that. Coincidentally, this is also the point when the films started actually showing Jason the entire time, so that might have more to do with it than anything.

[Ron]

I agree. Both of those scenes are creepy because you get the feeling that you're seeing something that you weren't supposed to.

[The 5th Golden Girl]

I used to find that scene in part 2 scary, but now all I see when I watch that scene is a "WTF?" bubble above the sheriff and the "LOL!" bubble above Jason thanks to a certain picture posted in the dead forum's "Jason's Got to Have a Sense of Humor" thread.

*sigh* That was a funny picture.

[Rich]

I agree with Dream Master. What makes the first two films work is that they are mysteries pretty much. In the original you don't know who is murdering until the end and in the sequel, you are faced with the campfire tale and then Paul saying it is just a legend. That makes you think, well is Jason doing the killing or is someone playing the part. They have a real sense of mystery. Plus, putting the story in the context of a Big Foot/Loch Ness style urban legend helps it and makes it more authentic, because in reality some people believe in stories like this.

[sCabbOy]

Ya know, if it wouldn't have shown Jason get up from the shack floor Part III could haso have been a mystery if written correctly.

So many Red Herrings- Abel, the bikers, Shelly, and who knows who else could have been written in.

[Mutant Leprechaun]

I don't really want Hodder back, his preformance in Jason X was pretty wooden, it was terrible compared to part 7.

I'm all for a new guy to try on the Hockey mask as long as he's not like 6 foot 8 and as skinny as Kirzinger looked in FvJ.

[The Dream Master]

Ya know, if it wouldn't have shown Jason get up from the shack floor Part III could haso have been a mystery if written correctly.

So many Red Herrings- Abel, the bikers, Shelly, and who knows who else could have been written in.

Wow, good fucking call there, Scab. I'd never considered this before. It would have worked so well, too, because it wouldn't have been at all strange to think that there was yet another killer, considering that the first two films had two different killers.

[Ron]

Yeah, i never thought of it like that either. That's an awesome perspective. I swear, scab is the Albert Einstein of Friday The 13th films:D

[NW77]

I don't have to say my opinion on this. I'm sure some of you folks (including DRE :p) know what I say on this. ;)

[DRE]

Welcome back NW, I'm glad you're here man. And yes, I'm very well aware of your stance on this matter. ;)

[ChoKo]

I would definitely like to see Kane in the role again. I think he brought a uniqueness to the character. Also, even though I don't like JGTH, and despise Jason X, I think Kane's performances were great in those films. Even though the movies aren't great, it doesn't effect his performances in them, which were just a good as his previous outings, IMO.

[The Dream Master]

Also, even though I don't like JGTH, and despise Jason X, I think Kane's performances were great in those films.

You mean his role as the FBI guy that calls Jason a "pussy?" Yeah, he was great there.

Nah, I'm just messing. Even though Jason isn't exactly in JGTH much, he looks fantastic and Kane played him well (especially at the beginning).

[sCabbOy]

I don't know if I would call his performances great, but they were just as good as any other Jason, I guess- nothing more.

[NW77]

I don't know if I would call his performances great, but they were just as good as any other Jason, I guess- nothing more.

Yeah. Many stuntmen are not known for being good of an actor when it come to saying their lines. Seeing as they were trained in the beginning to do stunts, not being a great actor. Of course that just my opinion. ;)

[DRE]

Actually, being a stunt coordinator you spend a lot of time on set with actors, so I'm sure Hodder picked up some skills by watching others. I think he is gonna surprise people with BTK.

As I said, he is the first Jason that received media attention solely, and not included on some panel with the others (Until later), this is the Current Affair piece they did on him:

Kane Hodder on A Current Affair (http://youtube.com/watch?v=sUcXjc-tklM)

Even a major media publication like Daily Variety singled him out with this review for JTM:

"The imposing Kane Hodder... plays the role (of Jason) with unholy relish."- Daily Variety

And when he wasn't chosen for FvsJ, that was a big story in all media that was covering it, look up every story and you will see "Kane Hodder, who has played the role in the last three films, will not be returning" no one ever said "Ted White, who played Jason in Final Chapter, will not be back for Jason Lives", he is the best known of all Jason actors and that's why I think a lot of people resent him. I can understand that resentment, no one man should be bigger than Jason or become known AS Jason, but it happened and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

When people in the know of this genre hear Kane Hodder, they think of Jason.

[Jigsaw]

Kane being the most well-known Jason isn't why I think he's resented, it's his ego that makes him resentful. He always talks like he's the only one who was a good Jason actor and like the others did nothing for the character. His devotion to Jason is great but his ego has to go.

[NW77]

I think him playing Jason a lot & having everyone think of him as Jason got to his head with his ego problem. Especially with putting down others & think he play Jason better. Not to mention thinking Jason wouldn't do that & that he won't hurt kids & animals. Jason sound like he care about kids & animals with that comment Kane said, when Jason has no remorse for those 2. That one of my problem with Kane: his ego.

[sCabbOy]

Kane just needs to realize that he was nothing but a shape and a stuntman- nothing more. Only reason he came back for JTM was Hedden, the producers didn't want him back. So, if he never came back for JTM I doubt he'd be back for JGTH and JX.

[The Tall Man]

Hey, can somebody quote for me or point out when Kane badmouth any other Jason actors? Because I don't remember him every saying he was the best or that he didn't like previous performances.

Now Buechler on the other hand...

T.M.

[ChoKo]

What's wrong with Kane taking pride in his performance? Just because he thinks he did a good job makes him egotistical? That's bullshit, IMO.

Not to mention thinking Jason wouldn't do that & that he won't hurt kids & animals.

Actors refuse to do shit all of the time; it's not unusual. Seeing Jason kick a dog isn't my idea of entertainment, anyway. Think about it this way: Would seeing Jason kick a dog have made JTM any better?

Only reason he came back for JTM was Hedden.

Hedden was the director. He could cast whoever the hell he wanted. The way you worded your post makes it sound like that Hedden's casting choices didn't matter, when it obviously did.

He always talks like he's the only one who was a good Jason actor and like the others did nothing for the character.

Not true. Kane has said many times that he thought C.J. Graham did a great job as Jason.

[Just Jeans]

When people in the know of this genre hear Kane Hodder, they think of Jason.

Certainly. But not all of us hear Jason Voorhees and think of Kane Hodder.

He was good, but he wasn't the end-all, and I see no reason to cast him in the role until he's too old to play it.

Not true. Kane has said many times that he thought C.J. Graham did a great job as Jason.

Weren't C.J. and Kane friends? Or was it Kane and Ken who were friends? I have trouble remembering.

[Jigsaw]

Kane has praised C.J.'s performance as Jason in JL. As for Kane and Ken being friends, I think it was mentioned somewhere in the Making Of F13 book by David Grove.

Kane dedication to Jason is great, but he always rambles on how great he is in the role and IMO that makes him sound very self-centered.

[ChoKo]

Like I said before, I don't think it's unusual for an actor to take pride in his work; Kane being no exception.

[Jigsaw]

Taking pride in your work is one thing, but Kane takes too much pride IMO.

[ChoKo]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not gonna knock the guy for taking pride in what he does. It's my opinion that there's no such thing as taking too much pride in your work. He's proud of what he's done, and he likes to let people know that he's proud. I think it's wrong to fault him for that.

[Deathscythe]

Hey, can somebody quote for me or point out when Kane badmouth any other Jason actors? Because I don't remember him every saying he was the best or that he didn't like previous performances.

Now Buechler on the other hand...

T.M.

Who is Buechler? And what did he say?

[Jigsaw]

John Carl Buechler, the director and make-up artist for The New Blood. On the make-up effects featurette for TNB on the bonus disc in the F13 DVD set, he said something along the lines of that the other Jason actors besides Kane didn't give Jason any real anger or agenda. IMO that's very disrespectful and self-centered. I personally feel every Jason actor has done fine in the role.

[Deathscythe]

Oh thanks a lot. I thought he was a Jason actor which was odd as I never heared that name before.

[NW77]

Actors refuse to do shit all of the time; it's not unusual. Seeing Jason kick a dog isn't my idea of entertainment, anyway. Think about it this way: Would seeing Jason kick a dog have made JTM any better?



But Kane thinking Jason wouldn't hurt animals & kids? That the problem right there. I think Kane love animals & kids too much to say Jason wouldn't hurt the 2, when he apparently never saw part 2, 3, & 4. Jason will hurt any living beings whether it animals or kids when he can. Beside, I thought Jason has no emotions anymore after he came back from the dead. If that is true, then Kane should forgot the lame "Jason wouldn't hurt animals & kids", 'cause Jason won't care if he is emotionless after being undead. And yes, I think Jason kicking a dog would make JTM better instead of trying to creep out punks with his face. Honestly, I hate that scene since why would Jason bother to do that? He should just ignore the punks & follow his victims instead.

And yes, both Kane & Buechler say Kane brought back the personality Jason was missing. He never lost the personality before Kane took over & there lie my problem with him. Since he plays the role 4 times, he thinks he brought everything to Jason when that is not true. When you claim you brought back the personality where others didn't (which they did), you're disrespecting them & putting down their work. And that is harsh on Kane part to say something like that.

[DRE]

The guys has two kids, of course he's not gonna let his Jason hurt children. And I think most fans are of the mind that Jason wouldn't hurt children anyways because he himself is still of a child's mind.

We've seen nothing that indicates he would hurt a child in this series, and before you bring it up:

"Well, he killed Debbie and she was pregnant." - He didn't know that.

"Well, he was going to kill Tommy." - One, he only grabbed him, if Jason was going to kill Tommy he would have wasted no time. Two, Jason was attempting to kill himself when he saw bald Tommy on the stairs.

"Well, he tried to chop Reggie the Reckless." - That was Roy.

"Well, he was going to kill Nancy." - He was fascinated by her, as evidenced by his examination of her instead of burying his machete in her head.

"Well, he was going to attack the kids in the cabin." - Please, crashed through that door to draw out Tommy and Megan.

"Well, he was trying to kill baby Stephanie." - He wanted to be reborn, survival of the fittest.

[ChoKo]

And yes, I think Jason kicking a dog would make JTM better instead of trying to creep out punks with his face. Honestly, I hate that scene since why would Jason bother to do that? He should just ignore the punks & follow his victims instead.

Why do you feel that you have more say on what Jason should do than the guy who played him? You complain about Kane saying stuff like "Jason won't do that," when you're basically doing the same thing yourself.

But Kane thinking Jason wouldn't hurt animals & kids?

Zombie Jason went after the kids ONCE in JL, but he also just stared at the scared little girl when he could have killed her. He has some kind of emotional attachment to kids.

And yes, both Kane & Buechler say Kane brought back the personality Jason was missing. He never lost the personality before Kane took over & there lie my problem with him. Since he plays the role 4 times, he thinks he brought everything to Jason when that is not true. When you claim you brought back the personality where others didn't (which they did), you're disrespecting them & putting down their work.

Both Kane and Beuchler are entitled to their opinions. If that's what they think, that's their opinion. It's no different than a fan sayin those things. Just because Kane and Beuchler were involved in the F13 films doesn't mean they are exempt from voicing their opinions. I don't think he's disrespecting anyone. Like I said, he's just stating his opinions, which is perfectly fine.

And that is harsh on Kane part to say something like that.

It's no more harsh than a fan voicing his opinion.

[Rick]

The guys has two kids, of course he's not gonna let his Jason hurt children. And I think most fans are of the mind that Jason wouldn't hurt children anyways because he himself is still of a child's mind.

We've seen nothing that indicates he would hurt a child in this series, and before you bring it up:

"Well, he killed Debbie and she was pregnant." - He didn't know that.

"Well, he was going to kill Tommy." - One, he only grabbed him, if Jason was going to kill Tommy he would have wasted no time. Two, Jason was attempting to kill himself when he saw bald Tommy on the stairs.

"Well, he tried to chop Reggie the Reckless." - That was Roy.

"Well, he was going to kill Nancy." - He was fascinated by her, as evidenced by his examination of her instead of burying his machete in her head.

"Well, he was going to attack the kids in the cabin." - Please, crashed through that door to draw out Tommy and Megan.

"Well, he was trying to kill baby Stephanie." - He wanted to be reborn, survival of the fittest.

Couple things I disagree with here, I believe Jason was intending to kill Tommy when he grabbed him. The only thing that stopped him was Trish going ape-shit on his head and mask with a hammer.
I also don't necessarily agree that Jason was just trying to draw out Tommy and Megan in part 6. I think he would have preferred to kill them but since he couldn't find them he went after a secondary target. Jason doesn't really show much intelligence in part 6 so I personally don't give him that much credit.
I agree with NW that Jason has no trouble killing animals.

[ChoKo]

I agree with NW that Jason has no trouble killing animals.

No offense, but no one said that Jason had a problem with killing animals. It's obvious that Jason has killed animals in the past. What we were talking about was Kane refusing to kick a dog in JTM.

[The Tall Man]

Dre, :bang:

T.M.

[Rich]

I believe Jason was intending to kill Tommy when he grabbed him. The only thing that stopped him was Trish going ape-shit on his head and mask with a hammer.

I think Trish and the hammer would have stopped him if he wanted to kill Tommy anyway, but I think he only grabbed him to scare Trish. Also, the scene later on when he could have easily killed Tommy, but decided to chase Trish from and back to the house proves that he didn't really want to kill Tommy. If he did he would have went for Tommy at that scene. It would have been an easy kill.

I also don't necessarily agree that Jason was just trying to draw out Tommy and Megan in part 6. I think he would have preferred to kill them but since he couldn't find them he went after a secondary target

If that were true, he would have went "Freddy vs. Jason rave scene" on all the kids during the scene when he walked through the cabin. Instead he looked as though he was going to give Nancy a goodnite kiss before being drawn out by the sound of the police.

Jason doesn't really show much intelligence in part 6 so I personally don't give him that much credit

Sure he does:

A) He hides in the bathroom and picks his spot in when he killed the couple in the motor home.

B) He cuts the phone line to iscolate the camp from the outside world.

C) He shows he can read when he looks at the sign that says "Camp Forest Green" instead of "Camp Crystal Lake."

Sure he was easily manipulated by Tommy at the end of the movie, but he wasn't excactly a box of rocks. I mean, he's got to be smarter then Jessica Simpson. He died when he was 11 so he muc know what a noun is. :D

I agree with NW that Jason has no trouble killing animals

We've never seen him kill any animals. You can argue the dog found in the woods in Friday the 13th Part 2, but that could have been donw by another animal. You can't prove Jason did that so whether or not Jason would kill an animal still remains to be seen.

Wait a minute, Jason has killed hundreds of animals. Humans are animals aren't they? ;)

[DRE]

Tell it like it is Rich!


Dre, :bang:

T.M.

No, YOU rock TM!

[Killa Pimp]

I just think that a lot of director's/production companies now aren't going to put up with that
"Jason wouldn't do that," stuff nowadays.
A lot of screenwriter's and director's have visions for movies they don't want messed with no matter what actor they are dealing with.

Its not like they are casting the next James Bond and if they don't have to put up with any negativity on the set, so much the better.

I personally don't think that the little comments Kane has made in the past were that bad but he probably gave himself a negative persona in the industry and you can basically kill a good gig like that.
Hence, the anybody but Kane casting we see now.

I just hope the next movie is good,exciting and scary enough to make enough money and buzz to warrant more sequels.

[sCabbOy]

Back to JAson, what if Trish could not have stopped Jason? What would he have done to Tommy? Brought him outside and played yard darts? No way he would have killed him.

[Rick]

Damn right.
As for Jason choosing to go after Trish over Tommy, he clearly hesitates before choosing Trish. Tommy was an easier target but Trish attacked him and was a bigger threat.

[James M]

The closest option to my feelings was "I really don't care."

But to be more accurate, it depends on the director. Lots of people out there could be as good as or better than Hodder, but it depends on the director. If someone like Ronny Yu who never saw the movies and thinks Jason is Frankenstein is the director, anybody's gonna suck (but it's not their fault).

[DRE]

Then why didn't Jason kill Nancy or any of the other sleeping kids in Jason Lives? He could have went from bed to bed stabbing them like the Ringwraiths in Fellowship, but alas, he did not.

[ChoKo]

A lot of screenwriter's and director's have visions for movies they don't want messed with no matter what actor they are dealing with.

Screenwriters have their visions fucked with long before actors have their chance to even see it, usually.

[Rick]

Then why didn't Jason kill Nancy or any of the other sleeping kids in Jason Lives? He could have went from bed to bed stabbing them like the Ringwraiths in Fellowship, but alas, he did not.

Jason was obviously curious.
Just because he didn't kill them then it doesn't mean he wouldn't have come back for them later.
When he attacks Tommy grabbing him through the window what was his angle? Was he trying to get Trish within arm's reach or something?
He had that. She hits him a bunch of times yet Jason just hangs on to Tommy. If he was just using Tommy as a lure then he would have let him go as soon as she got close but he doesn't.
He holds tight to Tommy and only lets go when she turns the hammer around and nails him in the shoulder with the claw end.
That's the only thing that breaks his hold.
Then again, later he hesitates when they are all in the hall. His first instinct is to go for Trish, then Tommy yells and Jason looks toward him. When he starts to move toward Tommy Trish yells "no" and Jason looks back at her. He actually looks back and forth between them and he then decides on Trish as his next target.
He was willing to kill both but was deciding who he should get first.

Of course we have to take into account who wrote these movies. Two different sets of personalities were behind them.
While the writers of part 4 made it dark, graphic violent and suggest that Jason would go after kids, Tom McLoughlin loads his with comedy, doesn't include a lot of gore or elaborate FX and shows a different set of morals when it comes to violence towards kids.
Since both movies exist they are both cannon, but I don't think one should really invalidate the other. They are two different versions of Jason so i guess it should all be chalked up to the writers views on what makes effective drama.

[Rich]

Back to JAson, what if Trish could not have stopped Jason? What would he have done to Tommy? Brought him outside and played yard darts? No way he would have killed him.

Honestly, I see Jason holding Tommy, looking down at him, giving a head tilt, and dropping him and chasing Trish.

I mean, if Jason wanted to kill Tommy, why did he just stand there? Why would he not simply pick Tommy up and run into the woods with him and kill him? It was Trish he wanted.

[DRE]

Then let's just say that if Jason gets angry enough, he will kill all in his way, even children. But he won't go out of his way to kill a child when there are other more worthy prey to be had.

[Rich]

Also remember if they make the re-telling it might be a different Jason then the one we grew up with Just like the new Michael will probably be a different Michael. So who knows, the new Jason just might kill kids, but the Jason of the classic Paramount series has never and would never kill a child. He has simply had too many opportunities and did not.

Keep the original in mind Mrs. Voorhees stated that she could not allow the camp to re-open because of all the trouble that was there. She was not only out for revenge but also doing what she did so no other child would suffer the same fate that Jason did. Jason is continueing his mother's mission so it would be contradictory for him to harm a child.

[Rick]

While Jason is carrying on his mother's work in as much as he targets councilors he has gone way beyond that. Part 3 none of them were councilors and they weren't at camp. Ditto for part 4, 7 and 8. In 8 they weren't even at the lake. For some reason he targeted the graduating class of Crystal Lake high school and when he followed them to New York stayed on their trail and only messed with people who got between him and them.
In JGTH he kills anyone between him and rebirth (in which he goes after an infant who will die for him to be reborn) and in FvsJ he kills everyone he finds being naughty because he believes his mother told him to. Then JasonX comes along and he kills anyone within proximity to him. He really only had a reason to go after Rowan but killed anyone he saw.
So if he's willing to deviate from his mom's work in that respect why is it such a stretch to believe that the mind of a 10 year old (possibly mentally handicapped, certainly insane) kid might not also want to strike out at the same people who tormented him so much when he was alive, other children?
He saw his mom dole out punishment to the type of people she blamed for her pain, why would Jason not think that was acceptable to do towards those types of people he sees responsible for his? That would include kids.
I think the only reason Jason hasn't killed a child is because for these writers/filmakers it's too taboo. They have certainly put then in jeopardy, but there is alway some distraction to save then from actually going through with it.

[The Tall Man]

I've got a few things I want to mention here...

Firstly and I BELIEVE it was Drifter who mentioned this before... Can somebody point out for me or quote when Kane exactly said "Jason doesn't kill animals"? All I've ever heard from him (and I remember reading the interview clearly) was that Kane refused to kick the dog in Friday 8. The exact quote he said was "Look, Jason can rip your arm off and beat you to death with it. He's not going to be kicking any dogs." (which come on, Jason kicking a dog is stupid) That's NOT "Jason doesn't kill animals." I think fans have gossiped it around and blown it way out of proportion until it's totally alien to what Kane actually said.

Secondly, why does Jason have to be completely the same and constant throughout the series? Look at Freddy. In the first few movies, he just stabs people, but by the later films if he REALLY wants you to suffer, he discovers and exploits your fatal flaw. What about Jason? Why can't we say "Jason may kill children when he was alive, but when he came back he'd decided against it"? Is Jason not allowed to grow as a person too? You guys are pigeonholding him. ;)

He didn't kill Chris when he first encountered her and HAD the opportunity to do so... yet he plans to kill her when they meet again. Certainly not constant of him.

T.M.

[Rich]

Maybe that is why some of us like the Friday sequels but not the Nightmare ones...like myself. :D I like concistancy. I don't like characters changins personality traits from one film to the next, because that is what makes the character that particular character. For me, there is more to Freddy then just a stripe sweater and finger knives. To me Freddy is an evil sadistic son of a bitch who has the darkest sense of humor in cutting off his own fingers and mocking god, not some idiot who rides skateboards before he kills someone.

[Deathscythe]

I didn't mind one liner Freddy until Freddy's Dead, well maybe The Dream Child but I haven't seen that in years. Freddy always reminded me of The Joker when Alice beats the hell out of him and he laughes it off.

[ChoKo]

Firstly and I BELIEVE it was Drifter who mentioned this before... Can somebody point out for me or quote when Kane exactly said "Jason doesn't kill animals"? All I've ever heard from him (and I remember reading the interview clearly) was that Kane refused to kick the dog in Friday 8. The exact quote he said was "Look, Jason can rip your arm off and beat you to death with it. He's not going to be kicking any dogs." (which come on, Jason kicking a dog is stupid)

Agreed.

That's NOT "Jason doesn't kill animals." I think fans have gossiped it around and blown it way out of proportion until it's totally alien to what Kane actually said.

And I think that's how most bullshit gets started. Someone says one thing, it gets spread around, picks up a few embellishments, and snowballs into something completely different.

[DRE]

Agreed.



And I think that's how most bullshit gets started. Someone says one thing, it gets spread around, picks up a few embellishments, and snowballs into something completely different.

That's exactly how the "Jason wouldn't do that" crap started. Jim Isaac and Todd Farmer were clearly joking when they said that, and people ran with it as if Hodder was some diva making demands.

[Rich]

Didn't Kane demand a spot of tea every afternoon at excactly 3 o'clock and if he didn't get it he wouldn't work and hold the movie production up?

:X:lmao:

[Just Jeans]

Can anyone give me one good reason -- that doesn't involve your own personal opinion of the idea -- why Jason shouldn't kick a dog? Because the Jason I'm used to watching (and reading) is a hate-filled rage machine. What makes a dog exempt from that rage? You don't see Jason kicking people very often, this I admit, but it's the principle I'm talking about. I see no reason for Jason not to attack children and animals, because lashing out at anything that breathes, regardless of species or age, is what I would expect a rage-filled Jason to do.

That's one of the reasons I enjoyed Hate-Kill-Repeat. If you got in Jason's way, you died. Period. End of. It didn't matter how old a victim was or even if the victim was human. If it breathes, Jason kills it (although I have to admit that I wasn't keen on fish and other animals just falling dead when Jason was near. That was a bit much.)

Didn't Kane demand a spot of tea every afternoon at excactly 3 o'clock...

And not just any old tea -- the man demanded beans on toast. :o He's a real wild man, that Kane.

[Rich]

I got one Jeans. Jason's revenge is on people, not dogs, cats, or other species. It is people that let him drown. It is people that murdered his mother. It is people that he has hatred for. He simply has no gripe with anything else except people...and doors and walls and windows. :)

If he did actually kill that dog that was found in the woods in Part 2 it would probably be for food not for the same reason he would kill a counselor or vacationer. In his eyes a counselor and a vacationer are the same thing. They are people of the same age as those who let him drown and murdered his mother and are tresspassing on his turf [to him] maybe in mockery of him.

Even Michael Myers only seemed to kill animals for food or if they are giving his presence away before he wanted anyone to know he was around.

[ChoKo]

Can anyone give me one good reason -- that doesn't involve your own personal opinion of the idea -- why Jason shouldn't kick a dog? Because the Jason I'm used to watching (and reading) is a hate-filled rage machine. What makes a dog exempt from that rage?

I understand what you're saying, and I agree; there is no reason for Jason not to kick a dog, IF it's in his way. However, if it isn't in his way, he's not gonna go out of his way to kick it. Look at it this way: Jason usually goes from point A to point B, he's not gonna take a detour just to kick or kill a dog.

I look at it this way; he wouldn't kick a dog for the same reason he didn't kill everyone in Times Square. Most of them weren't in his way, and those that did get in his way paid for it. Simple as that.

[The Tall Man]

Can anyone give me one good reason -- that doesn't involve your own personal opinion of the idea -- why Jason shouldn't kick a dog? Because the Jason I'm used to watching (and reading) is a hate-filled rage machine. What makes a dog exempt from that rage? You don't see Jason kicking people very often, this I admit, but it's the principle I'm talking about. I see no reason for Jason not to attack children and animals, because lashing out at anything that breathes, regardless of species or age, is what I would expect a rage-filled Jason to do.

That's one of the reasons I enjoyed Hate-Kill-Repeat. If you got in Jason's way, you died. Period. End of.
Well books aren't canon, but anyway it goes against what we were told about Jason's character in FvsJ.

When Jason is in hell it is clearly shown that Jason's hell is that he must murder people for all eternity. This is the demarcation between him and Freddy (whose hell is that he is unable to murder anyone for eternity). Jason doesn't want to kill anybody. Jason wants you to leave him the fuck alone.

Jason doesn't have it out for you these days. He may have once, but not so much anymore. I mean, if he did, they're be nothing living at Crystal Lake. No birds, no dogs, no snakes, no bears, no trees, nothing. But if you wander into his home, Vegas odds say you aren't leaving.

And come on... and I still stand by hulking Jason Voorhees kicking a little dog is just goofy. Hell, they even cut it out when Angela Baker was supposed to do it!

ADDED: Rich, I agree with every bit of that. Man, Jason is pissed off at windows, ain't he? Did they rape his mother or something?

Drifter, let's say that Rennie's dog (or even Gordon for that matter) attacked Jason... I can CERTAINLY see Jason killing it with mad quickness. But like Kane said... he's not gonna kick it. Break it's neck yes. Kick it, no.

T.M.

[DRE]

Jason doesn't want to kill anybody. Jason wants you to leave him the fuck alone.


That's the best summation of Jason Voorhees I've ever read.

If the man is alone at Camp Crystal Lake, he's not gonna wander into town to kill anyone, he's gonna walk around the camp pondering the universe and thinking that the "Gotta Take a Shit" mask is the most stupid fucking thing he's ever heard of.

[The Tall Man]

Dre, :lmao::bang: I just toppled over backwards out of my chair and then fell into a three-minute, coughing, sputtering, laughing fit on the floor.

T.M.

[Nancy Thompson]

Well i think if Jason got real mad he will kill anything he sees. People, Dog, Cat and etc. I do think Jason would kick a dog. But hey this is JMO

[sCabbOy]

IMO, he killed Muffin, I don't care who says what. That pile of fur with a bow WAS Muffin. So, that closes the case with me- he'd certainly kick a dog.

As for kids, I feel he would have killed Tommy if he would have caught him. You can't say that he wouldn't based on his reaction to Tommy when he was acting like young Jason. Ginny did the same thing and he would have killed her too.

IMO Jason would kill kids.

[killerdude360]

seriousley ken was really rubbish in freddy vs jason so hell yeah i want kane to be in the new film

[hack slash]

IMO, he killed Muffin, I don't care who says what. That pile of fur with a bow WAS Muffin. So, that closes the case with me- he'd certainly kick a dog.
BLASPHEMY!!!...LOL:D

why wouldn't Jason kill a dog, he killed a radio for no reason:p

and TM your post cracked me up:cool:

[Jigsaw]

IMO, he killed Muffin, I don't care who says what. That pile of fur with a bow WAS Muffin. So, that closes the case with me- he'd certainly kick a dog.

As for kids, I feel he would have killed Tommy if he would have caught him. You can't say that he wouldn't based on his reaction to Tommy when he was acting like young Jason. Ginny did the same thing and he would have killed her too.

IMO Jason would kill kids.


I agree. Although I think Jason is relatively passive around animals and most of the time isn't bothered by them and will only kill them if they attack him. He probably killed Muffin, but maybe he felt threatened by her and retaliated out of fear. I think Jason would kill children, he's a completely indiscriminate killer.

[NW77]

seriousley ken was really rubbish in freddy vs jason so hell yeah i want kane to be in the new film

Why you have his Jason as your avatar then? :p

And I agree with Scabboy on that Jason kill Muffin. When you look at the dog sitting around Jason's feet, it has to be him since his mutlitated body was found where he encounter Jason. Jason just isn't a remorseful character that he will kill any animals & children that is on what consider his home.

[sCabbOy]

In the novel for 3 he killed a rabbit... haha

Back to Kane... I'd rather see Kane in more legitimate acting roles. As much as I hated Ed Gein when I first saw it, it's grown on me and I think he did a great job. His acting (speaking) could have been better, but oh well.

I bet Tiny Lister (http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/lions_gate_films/the_wash/tom__tiny__lister_jr_/washpre.jpg) would be a good Jason. He's like 6'8", huge and in Friday 2 when he got out of the dog truck he reminded me of Jason. He gets out all slow, and then looks side to side and walks like Jason. I dunno why I spotted that.

[Killa Pimp]

I bet Tiny Lister (http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/lions_gate_films/the_wash/tom__tiny__lister_jr_/washpre.jpg) would be a good Jason. He's like 6'8", huge and in Friday 2 when he got out of the dog truck he reminded me of Jason. He gets out all slow, and then looks side to side and walks like Jason. I dunno why I spotted that.

ZEUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DRE]

As much as I think Lister would make a good Jason, there would be a far worse heat on him than Kane, and for a whole different reason I might add.

[sCabbOy]

I was being a little facetious, but still I am sure it would be a spectacle. But yeah, I am sure he'd get more shit than Ken.

[Just Jeans]

If he did actually kill that dog that was found in the woods in Part 2 it would probably be for food not for the same reason he would kill a counselor or vacationer.

The dog didn't look eaten to me, it looked torn apart. Mind you, I've not seen Friday 2 in a while, but I recall thinking that the dog looked decidedly un-eaten.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree; there is no reason for Jason not to kick a dog, IF it's in his way. However, if it isn't in his way, he's not gonna go out of his way to kick it. Look at it this way: Jason usually goes from point A to point B, he's not gonna take a detour just to kick or kill a dog.

Did he go out of his way to kick Rennie's dog in the intended scene in Jaston Takes Manhattan? This thread is the first time I've heard anything about Jason kicking the dog, so I'm not up to scratch on how it would have gone down, but I agree with you on that point -- I can't imagine him taking a detour to kick a dog, but if it's in his way I see no reason that he wouldn't.

Well books aren't canon...

That word means nothing to me. 15 years in a certain fandom (which shall remain nameless lest I get accused of name dropping) has made it pretty valueless. If I enjoy a book or a film, I enjoy it. The 'C' word has no barring on my like.

And frankly, I'd take Hate-Kill-Repeat as a (spiritual) follow-up to The New Blood over Jason Takes Manhattan any day. If the eighth film had been more like Hate-Kill-Repeat, it might have restored the franchise to something approaching awesome.

...but anyway it goes against what we were told about Jason's character in FvsJ.

Not really. I realize his own personal hell is killing people over and over and over and over, but it's never been explicitly implied in any of the films that Jason doesn't kill children or animals. While I think Jason will kill kids who are on his turf (he has a go at Tommy, and when he busts into the kid's cabin near the end of part 6, I don't think he was there to read them bedtime stories), I also think the animals issue is a bit more vague.

Jason doesn't want to kill anybody. Jason wants you to leave him the fuck alone.

As much as I like the idea, and as often as I've tried to apply it to Jason's character myself, it isn't backed up by the films. Jason wanders out of Crystal Lake at least twice in the series (the farm in part 3 isn't on Crystal Lake and he hitches a ride to Manhattan) and he goes out of his way to kill people that he doesn't need to. Why does he kill the nurse in part 4 when he could have just left the hospital? Why does he kill Edna and her dieting husband when he could have just yanked some clothes and left? Most importantly, why does he hitch a ride on an ocean cruiser, kill nearly everyone on it, then hunt down the survivors in Manhattan?

If he just wanted to be left alone, why doesn't he just sit in his little shack out in the woods and not wander so far from home? I can see him wandering in the woods directly around the shack, and even going up to the Camp itself, but home dude tends to stray pretty far from the old homestead.

[Jason's Storm]

Jeans, you forgot Jason left Crystal Lake for Springfield in FvsJ, because of Freddy impersonating his mom. Although he did hitch a ride back home at the end.

~JS

[Brett H.]

I would personally like to see Kane back, if only because he cares so much about the role. I didn't see Ken do anything that Kane couldn't, nor did I see CJ do anything Kane couldn't. At this point, the Jason portrayals in 1-4 are irrelevant because I doubt there will ever be a human Jason again.

To me, I think any dumbass out there could play Jason as it seems to be mostly the director's decision how he is portrayed and how he looks. Part of the reason I don't like Ken's Jason much is because he looked too stupid. In a nutshell, I don't see why anyone wouldn't want Kane back, nor why anyone would want him back besides the fact that he actually cares.

EDIT: My opinion on the dog thing, I think he'd step on the dog before kicking it.

[ChoKo]

Jason certainly killed Muffin, I agree, but we don't know exactly why he did.

Did he go out of his way to kick Rennie's dog in the intended scene in Jaston Takes Manhattan? This thread is the first time I've heard anything about Jason kicking the dog, so I'm not up to scratch on how it would have gone down.

If I remember correctly, Rennie's dog was supposed to be standing on the dock when Jason emerged from the water, and when Jason walked by, he kicked it.

Springfield
SpringWOOD. ;)

[Just Jeans]

Jeans, you forgot Jason left Crystal Lake for Springfield in FvsJ, because of Freddy impersonating his mom. Although he did hitch a ride back home at the end.

Well, I didn't count that one on the basis that Jason believed his mum was pulling the strings. I can see Jason strolling to Springwood if mummy tells him to.

If I remember correctly, Rennie's dog was supposed to be standing on the dock when Jason emerged from the water, and when Jason walked by, he kicked it.

So he wasn't hunting the dog down to kick it, it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. That seems sensible enough to me.

SpringWOOD. ;)

Sic burn! :D

[The 5th Golden Girl]

I don't buy the "Jason doesn't want to kill; he just wants to be left alone" train of thought. He's killed way too many people to not want to kill. Of course, I've always been in the group of people who believes Jason never drowned and watched as his mother killed and got killed in part 1, and he's doing what she did.

[sCabbOy]

If he didn;t want to kill, he wouldn't have went out of his way to kill.

[JVY2K]

I'm with Lammert here. Someone new. And anybody but Ken. He was too damn tall for Jason. I get that FvsJ was going for that 'out of this world' comic book feel, but Kane would have owned that role far better than Ken...

[Scarecrow]

I'd say that by Part 4, which takes place in the same timeframe as 2 and 3, Jason is seriously pissed. In Part 3 he's on the run, he has to get away from Crystal Lake area to avoid being caught, he even changes his outfit! JTM is harder but having floated down stream maybe he's just pissed and possibly dosn't realise the boat will be heading off?

- Scarecrow

[Rich]

I'd say that by Part 4, which takes place in the same timeframe as 2 and 3, Jason is seriously pissed

No kidding, if I were hanged and axed in the head I would not be happy either. :p

As far as his outfit change I don't know if that was for hiding purposes or basic comfort. I know that I, personally, would rather wearing pants and a shirt rather then suspenders and denim during the summer.

[The Tall Man]

Scarecrow, Hedden's script for 8 actually had Jason driving Jim and Suzi's boat into bay (harbor?). There was also some weird "Nightmare on Elm Street" nonsense about Jason coming back to get "the last generation of teens"... whatever the fuck that meant.

T.M.

[Rich]

Can you picture Jason driving the boat? The funny thing is Mrs. Voorhees wears blue and Jason is not highly intelligent so together they make a good Skipper and Gilligan! :lol:

[Shoesalesman]

I voted HELL YEAH!!!

Kane rocks!!

[101ant101]

i dont really care who plays jason. as long as there big and kinda built

[simonthekillerewok]

I would want Kane Hodder to play Jason because he's familiar to the franchise and appreciates the role, takes it seriously and he loves the fans that support him. -One of the nicest people I ever met. Also his role as Victor Crowley in 'Hatchet' was very different then Jason because he was hyperactive, and crazy so this is why I believe he could play any type of Jason- 'human' or otherwise in the remake.

[sCabbOy]

and appreciates the role, takes it seriously and he loves the fans that support him.

Sounds like all of the Jasons to me.

[NW77]

Sounds like all of the Jasons to me.

Even Warrington Gillette? :p

[sCabbOy]

Even Warrington Gillette? :p

Yeah, he loves his fans
took the role seriously (even though he messed it uo)
&
and I know he appreciated the role as Jason.

[NW77]

Yeah, he loves his fans
took the role seriously (even though he messed it uo)
&
and I know he appreciated the role as Jason.

I was trying to make a joke on that, since he was hardly Jason. I fail at my joke. :cry:

[sCabbOy]

I was trying to make a joke on that, since he was hardly Jason. I fail at my joke. :cry:

I get it, heh.

Thing is a lot of people have animosity towards him and I thought that was where you were getting at. I met Warrington and he was such a nice guy and very nice to his fans. Too bad he lied to his fans.

[NETRA]

I've heard many fans say Kane was the only one who appreciated and enjoyed the roll. I'm not sure where that got started but I don't buy it.

I had the good fortune of talking briefly to Richard Brooker several years ago. He still checks the Internet for articles about Part 3 and had only nice things to say about the fans. He seems to look fondly on the memories. And I know C.J. Graham said in an interview (with Fangoria) that he'd gladly play the roll again if asked.

[Rick]

CJ always said he enjoyed it.
I just don't think anyone before Hodder was as vocal about it.
The convention circuit wasn't as big I don't think, so while I'm sure many of them enjoyed playing the role they just didn't have as much opportunity to talk about it as Hodder did.

[NW77]

CJ always said he enjoyed it.
I just don't think anyone before Hodder was as vocal about it.
The convention circuit wasn't as big I don't think, so while I'm sure many of them enjoyed playing the role they just didn't have as much opportunity to talk about it as Hodder did.

Yep. Kane was the one who started doing conventions when it wasn't big as that time for other Jasons before him. I think there where many of his fans come from.

And Scab, Gillette lying to the fans is my beef with him. Not to mention he signed anything of part 2 pics that are of Dash instead of him before Dash confront him few years ago at the F13th convention around 2005. I think Gillette need to be more open & admit he wasn't who he was suppose to.

[Rick]

Gillette just really liked the notoriety I guess.
He was Jason in the movie probably thought no one really cared about him signing pics that weren't specifically him since hardly anyone ever did the circuit.
I don't think he did it maliciously, although he did kinda misrepresent himself. He was only Jason for one scene so being billed as "Jason in part 2" and never really owning up to how long he was Jason was a pretty shitty thing to do.
That's be like Ken doing the circuit as "Jason in Part 8" and signing everything he could, or that tubby guy from part 6 that did the scene in the woods before CJ was hired doing it.

[sCabbOy]

I've heard many fans say Kane was the only one who appreciated and enjoyed the roll. I'm not sure where that got started but I don't buy it.

I had the good fortune of talking briefly to Richard Brooker several years ago. He still checks the Internet for articles about Part 3 and had only nice things to say about the fans. He seems to look fondly on the memories. And I know C.J. Graham said in an interview (with Fangoria) that he'd gladly play the roll again if asked.



A lot of fans say that, you're right. Most of the ones saying that are in the Kane camp or the Kane bandwagon.

[NETRA]

Or they took the Kane bandwagon to the Kane camp. After all, he turns his head and THEN his body.

Okay, sarcasm aside . . . I like Kane but I think the other Jason actors get a bum reputation for no reason. Frankly, if Richard Brooker weren't too old for the roll, I'd be SUPER excited to see him return.

[NW77]

Okay, sarcasm aside . . . I like Kane but I think the other Jason actors get a bum reputation for no reason. Frankly, if Richard Brooker weren't too old for the roll, I'd be SUPER excited to see him return.




Brooker isn't that old 52 or 53 is still pretty good. Beside, White was Jason at 60s something for TFC. :eek:

[ChoKo]

I think the other Jason actors get a bum reputation for no reason.
It seems to me that the only Jason actor who gets a bum rep these days IS Kane. For example, look at some of the posts in this very thread. You don't see anyone shitting on the other Jason actors the way they do Kane, do you?

The most bothersome thing about it is, Kane gets ridiculed for stating his opinions. The man is entitled to his opinion, just the same as we are. I wish that would end, because all of the points against Kane are moot. Most of the people that dislike Kane, or his performances rather, bring up the whole "Skinny little bitch" comment. For one, I don't care what Kane says; I'm judging the guy on his performances, not on what he says in interviews.

People also complain about him being proud of his performances. You can't blame the guy. Who DOESN'T take pride in their work?

That's be like Ken doing the circuit as "Jason in Part 8" and signing everything he could.

You're right, Ken would never try to get over with fans based on what he did or didn't do in Part VIII; he only does that with casting directors. :side:

[Kane Lives]

The Kane Bandwagon? Why is that such a bad thing? Every actor who played Jason has his fans.

And I see it took only ONE pro-Kane comment on the last page to kick start the Hodder bashing again. I don't see why some people seem to have such a problem with Kane's fans thinking he was the best Jason.

[sCabbOy]

What I meant is people who usually say Kane is the only person who cared about his role are usually fans. Sounds like a fair judgment to me.

As for Kane being shit on, it's usually stemming from his mouth (what he has said) and his ego. It seems like people's complaints are usually stemming from on, the other or both.

Kane has said that he believes he's the only actor that really did anything interesting with the character... that's ego to me.

[Kane Lives]

Having an ego as an actor seems to be okay, as long as you're not Kane Hodder.

I think back to the quote from Christian Bale that DRE posted where he talked about the other Batmen. Some who complain about the things Kane has said, had no problem with that at all, and said the quotes were nothing alike when they were VERY similar. So with some, there is obviously a double standard. Or either just a vendetta against Kane in general.

It certainly seems that way to me at least. Because whenever someone compliments Hodder, there are several posters (usually the same ones) who pop up and offer up excuses for why Kane became popular or try to discredit him in some way. I don't get that.

I'm a huge fan of Kane Hodder's Jason and have defended him in several Kane vs. Ken debates, but if someone states as their opinion "Ken rules and was the best Jason ever!" I'm not going out of my way to try and tell that person that they shouldn't hold him in such high regard. Like I said, I don't get the knee jerk reaction that some have to anything Pro-Kane.


Kane has complimented CJ Graham several times on his portrayal of Jason. I've always had the opinion that Hodder likes the Zombie version of Jason better, which is why he doesn't have such a high opinion of the older Jasons. The man has a right to his views. Just because he played Jason, doesn't mean he can't have an opinion like we do.

[ChoKo]

As for Kane being shit on, it's usually stemming from his mouth (what he has said) and his ego. It seems like people's complaints are usually stemming from on, the other or both.


Which is one of the moot points that I mentioned previously. He's an actor; of course he has an ego. What actor doesn't? I don't fault him for it. Plus, his ego isn't half as bad as others I've seen.

People shouldn't judge Kane's performance on that anyway; it has nothing to do with what appears on screen.

Kane has said that he believes he's the only actor that really did anything interesting with the character... that's ego to me.

Like I said, that's his opinion; he's entitled to it. I don't fault him for that either.

[NETRA]

It seems to me that the only Jason actor who gets a bum rep these days IS Kane.

This message board has a pretty good cross-section of fans. I see people here who love Kane, some who are indifferent, some who like him but prefer someone else and some who hate him. That's life. The same thing happens at James Bond websites. Everybody has their favorite and defends him. And I dare say if Timothy Dalton claimed he was the best Bond because he "did things with the roll that nobody else thought of", the Connery fans would rip him a new one. And that shouldn't come as any surprise! Yes, actors have opinions. So do fans. And if a fan's opinion is to say the actor's opinion is crap, so be it.

As for me, I have no problem with Kane on a personal level. I'm not aware of his comments. (Don't know anything about the "skinny bitch" remark.) In fact, I think he's the best zombie Jason actor! But I do get annoyed when he or his fans put him above the other actors for reasons that seem manufactured. For example, claiming he was the only one who cared about the roll. Or claiming that he was the only one who gave the character any personality.

[NW77]

For example, claiming he was the only one who cared about the roll. Or claiming that he was the only one who gave the character any personality.



That my main beef with him there: ego. I can't stand of people with that kind of behavior with being full of themself when they think they are better & everyone else is inferior. He said the other Jasons before him were just playing zombie & don't know what they were doing. And that he brought back the personality. Since when did Dash, Brooker, & White were playing the zombie Jason? He just doesn't get it right there. And the "skinny little bitch" was that F13th reunion convention around Feb. 2004 or so. Thac can back that up, since he was there.

Oh, I read the comments DRE post about Bale & he never at once said the other Batmans before him were bad & never claim he was better like Kane did. Bale isn't the kind of guy to do that. And he gave credit to Keaton when he was being interviewed at San Francsico comic book convention around Feb. 2005.

[sCabbOy]

Really quick.

He did say personally that he felt that nobody ever did anything with the role. That right there is a complete disrespect for the actors before him.

Howver, I think Gillette, Ted White and Kirzinger gets 100 times more flak than Kane.

[NW77]

Here one of his comment I was talking about from his bio on "Where are they now?" section over the old forum:




I think some of the other guys who played Jason before me didn't really take it seriously, didn't really try and add anything to the character. They figured, eh, he's just a zombie that walks around. Anybody can do that. That's not true. I just try to put more into it, there's some breathing things I'm noted for."



That is a big slap on the face to other guys before him & there where Kane has a big ego there & big ego like that is not a good thing. It like being cocky & full of it. Jason was never a zombie before part 6. Again, he probably never seen any of the pre-zombie Jason films with thinking like that.

And scab, I do agree White & Kirzinger get the heat a lot. Especially Kirzinger, when he is a nice guy & was just following Yu's order. If he was given freedom to do what he want, I'm sure he would've move faster & be different. Not to mention be better in the role too.

[Jigsaw]

I agree. I blame Ronny Yu for a lot of what was wrong with FVJ, and I think Ken did fine in that film. I think his Jason portrayal was the best in the series since TNB or JL even.

[sCabbOy]

Who knows Ken may have did a superb job with how Yu directed him. Just because he wasn't Jason-like, well if he was sucking on the set he would have been fired. Obviously Yu and the brass liked his work.

[ChoKo]

You guys have been repeating the exact same tired argument for 9 pages.

Call me when you come up with a new argument. Then we'll talk. I would post a counter argument, but I'd be repeating myself, and there's no reason to do that.

So, for my counter argument, see my other posts in this thread.

[Kane Lives]

Oh, I read the comments DRE post about Bale & he never at once said the other Batmans before him were bad & never claim he was better like Kane did. Bale isn't the kind of guy to do that. And he gave credit to Keaton when he was being interviewed at San Francsico comic book convention around Feb. 2005.


I read it too, and if I recall correctly one of his last lines in the quote said something like "I don't think I've seen the Batman portrayed accurately onscreen prior to this film." To me, that sounds pretty arrogant. Maybe he hasn't said it as many times as Kane has, but give him time. If he felt that way on his first film, chances are it's not going to change. The only real difference I see here is that you like Christian Bale and don't like Kane Hodder.

Bale gave credit to Keaton? Hodder has given credit to CJ several times. A point that is often overlooked, until someone brings it up.



Especially Kirzinger, when he is a nice guy & was just following Yu's order. If he was given freedom to do what he want, I'm sure he would've move faster & be different. Not to mention be better in the role too.


If Ken was given the freedom to do what he wanted, he would have acted like Kane. He said this in the FVJ magazine. He said he looked at TNB and Jason X as a basis for what he was going to do with his performance. Who played Jason in those films? Ken may have added a slight touch of his own here or there, but the template would have been the Kane Jason that a lot of the Ken fans do not like.

All the talk about Ken's take on Jason leaves me to wonder sometimes if some fans would be more accepting of some of the Kane Jason's mannerisms such as the heavy breathing and the body language, if it were someone else behind them rather than Hodder himself.


As far as Ken goes... I didn't like the Frankenstein version of Jason that Yu brought to the screen. But, I would have been even more unhappy if Ken would have acted like Kane's Jason. If you want the Kane Jason, then hire Kane not someone else. I thought the whole point of outing Kane to begin with was that whomever it was wanted a different version of Jason.

Yu obviously had a different Jason in his head, and to allow Ken to have based his performance off of Kane would have defeated their whole purpose of recasting the role in the first place.

[DRE]

Don't waste your time Pat, Kane Lives, we've been to the bridge of this battle many times and they still insist on falling back to the lame arguments of "Jason wouldn't do that!" "Skinny little bitch!" and their favorite, his own personal opinion. All the Jason actors think they were the best, so I don't see why he gets singled out.

All this is because he became the most famous Jason actor, because he was the only one to carry the role through four films, because he's the only one who was able to carry on a career in front of the camera because of playing Jason (Where the others weren't), and mostly because none of this happened to their "favorite" Jason actor.

Now, NW, riddle me this....read the Bale quote below:


But then also I think that one very big difference, at least in my eyes, is just the way that we chose to portray the Batman himself. Just because I realized that the TV series was a spoof on what the original Bob Kane intentions had been. I never felt that I’d seen it adequately done in any of the other movies either, in that I really attempted to become a different creature that just kind of ceases to be human at that point.

Tell me, what is the difference in that quote and the Kane quote you posted earlier? Not a damn thing. Bale is saying he is doing it right and the others didn't. Now, where is the irony here? You agree with Bale because he is your favorite, so there's no ego there, right? But when it's Kane Hodder, someone who is not your favorite, it is ego. I smell hypocrisy....

And also, if anyone believes that Richard Brooker and Ted White (My number one Jason) gets more shit here than Hodder, I say, get real. No one says nary a bad thing about those guys or any pre-ANB Jason. Kirzinger? Who even thinks about him anymore? Let alone criticize him.

[Rick]

If Ken was given the freedom to do what he wanted, he would have acted like Kane. He said this in the FVJ magazine. He said he looked at TNB and Jason X as a basis for what he was going to do with his performance. Who played Jason in those films? Ken may have added a slight touch of his own here or there, but the template would have been the Kane Jason that a lot of the Ken fans do not like.

All the talk about Ken's take on Jason leaves me to wonder sometimes if some fans would be more accepting of some of the Kane Jason's mannerisms such as the heavy breathing and the body language, if it were someone else behind them rather than Hodder himself.


As far as Ken goes... I didn't like the Frankenstein version of Jason that Yu brought to the screen. But, I would have been even more unhappy if Ken would have acted like Kane's Jason. If you want the Kane Jason, then hire Kane not someone else. I thought the whole point of outing Kane to begin with was that whomever it was wanted a different version of Jason.

Yu obviously had a different Jason in his head, and to allow Ken to have based his performance off of Kane would have defeated their whole purpose of recasting the role in the first place.

In Fango Ken said he knew that fans expected Kane and he was prepared to give them a Jason that was a mix of Kane, some of the older ones and his own touch.
He never said he was just going to just imitate Kane.
If he had been given freedom with the role and just did a Kane imitation then there would have been no point in not hiring Kane, like you said.
If he had been given freedom and what he gave us sucked then we could all bash his performance on it's own merit and everyone could complain that Kane should have been asked back.

You're right, Ken would never try to get over with fans based on what he did or didn't do in Part VIII; he only does that with casting directors. :side:
I can imagine he said he had experience with the character seeing as how he was the stunt co-ordinator and had actually been hired to play the role in part 8 before Kane called New Line and asked for the job. He wouldn't be lying or stretching the truth there.
What exactly did he say to the casting director that was a lie or grand exaggeration to get the job in FvsJ?

[ChoKo]

Ken only doubled Jason in two scenes in JTM, I wouldn't call that a hell of a lot of experience. Plus, the two scenes that he's in, you can obviously tell that it isn't Kane, so not only did he suck as Jason, he sucked as a stunt double as well.

What exactly did he say to the casting director that was a lie or grand exaggeration to get the job in FvsJ?

I never said that he lied, but it's been said that he stretched the truth about what he did and didn't do in JTM. Often, Ken doesn't mention that he only doubled Jason in TWO scenes, and he uses that to his advantage.

And here is a blurb from CLM about it:

KANE HODDER: I want it known that Ken Kirzinger only doubled me in a couple shots on Jason Takes Manhattan, and only because we were under tremendous pressure and I didn't have time. That's it. It's not like he did all the stunts in it. And you can see the differences in our performances. Watch the shot after Jason gets electrocuted and walks off the subway train-Ken looks nothing like me because he swings his arms. It's fucking terrible.

Ken doesn't make it clear that this is all he did as Jason in Part VIII. He's not lying, but he certainly can be misleading. I just resent that the fact that some people were under the impression that he did a lot more in that film than he did. Two shots don't qualify you to play a character. But as shitty as it is, I can't say that I blame him. He wanted to get the job. He just did it in a shitty way, in my opinion.

And there you go.

[Kane Lives]

In Fango Ken said he knew that fans expected Kane and he was prepared to give them a Jason that was a mix of Kane, some of the older ones and his own touch.
He never said he was just going to just imitate Kane.



Here is the quote I was referring to:

"I had seen all the movies at one point or another, but once I got the part , I went back, and specifically looked at Part VII. I've also been looking at the most recent film Jason X. Having done Part VIII and worked so closely with Kane, I pretty much had a lot of the Jason movements and mannerisms down." But Kirzinger would quickly find out that Director Yu had his own ideas on how the villain should be portrayed.


Based on that quote, all I see is him talking about Kane's mannerisms and two of the films Kane was in. As I said, I'm sure he would have tossed in a touch or two of his own, but Kane's Jason seemed to be the template he was going to use for his Jason.

I have all of the Fangorias from 2003; can you give me an issue number where he said he was going to base his performance on all the other Jasons so I can go back and see it?

[Rick]

Ken only doubled Jason in two scenes in JTM, I wouldn't call that a hell of a lot of experience. Plus, the two scenes that he's in, you can obviously tell that it isn't Kane, so not only did he suck as Jason, he sucked as a stunt double as well.



I never said that he lied, but it's been said that he stretched the truth about what he did and didn't do in JTM. Often, Ken doesn't mention that he only doubled Jason in TWO scenes, and he uses that to his advantage.

Yep, he doubled Jason in two scenes, but being the stunt co-ordinator on the film I'm sure that he was present during the action and stunt shots that included Jason.
And seeing as how the role was originally his, someone must have had faith in him to play the part.
Regardless co-ordinating the movie, I would say, is a legitimate claim to experience with the character.
I have all of the Fangorias from 2003; can you give me an issue number where he said he was going to base his performance on all the other Jasons so I can go back and see it?
For the quote check Fangoria issues 224 and 225. Those are the FvsJ issues I have.
If it's not there check issue 31 of Rue Morge, that is the other FvsJ mag I have read over and over.
He didn't say he was going to base his performance on ALL of the previous Jasons, butthat there were certain ones he wanted to try and throw into his performance.
All of my issues are packed up in the basement at my mom's house.

[The Tall Man]

I just want to throw these bits out there.

A.) I am pretty damned sure that Kane's comment of "skinny little bitch" was in jest. That's his sense of humor. Just like the "Jason wouldn't do that" quote, I think fans jumped the gun and snowballed this into something way more than it really was.

B.) I hear a lot of people saying the words "then what was the point of not hiring Kane?" Well, Stokley Chakin (or whatever that bitch's name is) was in charge of all that (more than Yu was, as well). She for some reason had it in for Kane and cockblocked him from the role. By the bye, Stokley was also sleeping with David Goyer at the time and she allowed him to do a "polish" on Shannon & Swift's script to which he penned the immortal "Freddy died by fire, Jason by water, how can we use that?" line.

Fuck Stokley.

Rick, as for Ken getting the part originally in Part 8, I'm pretty sure it boiled down to Paramount as the same thing it did with New Line on FvsJ: He is Canadian... and cheap. Which is sad that's what they look at.

T.M.

[ChoKo]

Regardless co-ordinating the movie, I would say, is a legitimate claim to experience with the character.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Stunt Coordinating and acting are two very different things. I don't consider that a legit experience with the character.

Also, read my previous post with the CLM quote. That pretty much sums up my point.

I am pretty damned sure that Kane's comment of "skinny little bitch" was in jest. That's his sense of humor. Just like the "Jason wouldn't do that" quote, I think fans jumped the gun and snowballed this into something way more than it really was.

I think, for once, you and I agree on something. ;)

Fuck Stokely.

I agree with this as well. I have no idea why she hated Kane so much. She even went so far as to basically insult him in the Jason casting call for FVJ.

[The Dream Master]

Kane rulez? Ken is teh suck?! Is this really going on here?

Did Doc Brown abduct me into his Delorian and drop me off circa 2003?

[Rick]

I know the CLM quote.
Unfortunately Kane was not at the casting call so can only assume what was said and by whom.
This is the guy who still has some major sour grapes about not getting the role, so to take that quote as gospel is a little too much.
Unless we were there we don't know exactly what Ken said to get the role and neither can Kane, seems like he's just going on assumption like the rest of us.
I always find the end of that quote a little funny myself, Two shots don't qualify you to play a character. This from the guy who told TV Guide that he hoped to play Michael Myers because then he would have played all 4 major horror villains.
The three he's played so far? Jason (obviously), Leatherface (TCM 3 apparently as the stuntman he has more screen time in the mask then the actual guy hired to play the role), and # 3 Freddy's glove at the end of JGTH.

[ChoKo]

Personally, I don't blame Kane for being pissed about not getting the role.

But, like I said, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

[Kane Lives]

For the quote check Fangoria issues 224 and 225. Those are the FvsJ issues I have. If it's not there check issue 31 of Rue Morge, that is the other FvsJ mag I have read over and over.


I remember the Fangoria issues pretty well, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't in those. Ken was only interviewed in one of them anyway. Robert was the focus of the latter, but I'll check later. It must be in this Rue Morge #31, which I don't have.

But, if Ken was as concerned about Kane's body language as he seemed in the FVJ movie magazine, then I don't see what he could have done to radically differ himself from Hodder. The heavy breathing and the bowed stance specifically are all Hodder, and are associated with him specifically since no other Jason did them. Based on much of what he said about Kane's Jason, I just don't feel like his own take would have been that much different.


Unless Ken ran, and again, if he was specifically looking at VII and X as he said; then I feel like he wasn't planning to do that. Unless you want to count him running Freddy through the windows; but I am referring to chasing down his victims.

[DRE]

Kane rulez? Ken is teh suck?! Is this really going on here?

Did Doc Brown abduct me into his Delorian and drop me off circa 2003?

Actually DM, if you reversed that "rulez" and "teh suck" then you would truly have the fanboy mindset of late 2003 and every year there after.

[The Dream Master]

As far as I'm concerned, the two are interchangeable at this point.

At any rate, I can't believe this is still going on. You'd think we'd have moved on to something else at this point. Unfortunately, the only thing that's going to take the heat off of this debate is the inevitable announcement of a Friday remake.

[ChoKo]

Unfortunately, the only thing that's going to take the heat off of this debate is the inevitable announcement of a Friday remake.

Which will open up a brand new can of worms.

[The Dream Master]

Exactly. If people thought the Kane/Ken debates were brutal, they haven't seen anything yet.

[NETRA]

All this is because he became the most famous Jason actor, because he was the only one to carry the role through four films, because he's the only one who was able to carry on a career in front of the camera because of playing Jason (Where the others weren't), and mostly because none of this happened to their "favorite" Jason actor.

Why is "favorite" in quotes? Is that to suggest that those who claim someone other than Kane as a favorite are only kidding themselves? Just curious.

To some degree, perhaps you're right. I don't dislike Kane or have anything against him personally but I do sometimes resent him. I mean, I think Richard Brooker was awesome and should have had the chance to play the roll more than once. He didn't get to. Oh well. Life goes on. Kane got to come back (thanks to Heddon) and that sealed him as Jason for years to come. So, yeah part of me says, "Why him? What's he got that Brooker ain't got?"

That's a natural reaction I suppose. Much like how Kane fans would feel about Ken if he came back a second time. (Especially if he claims those who came before weren't up to the task . . . I'm just sayin') ;)

That said, there's more than just resentment at play. I think it's true that many of Kane's fans set him above the others based on what I consider false observations. Is it unreasonable of me to disagree when people say Kane was the only actor to give the roll personality? I think I'm within reason to disagree with that. Just my opinion.

I LOVE comparing and contrasting the various Jason actors. It's fun to discuss. But it's also difficult because it inevitably causes anger or impatience.

Rest assured Kane will always be THE zombie Jason so his fans have no need to worry about his legacy.

[DRE]

Why is "favorite" in quotes? Is that to suggest that those who claim someone other than Kane as a favorite are only kidding themselves? Just curious.

Not at all, but it is meant to suggest what you say below...

To some degree, perhaps you're right. I don't dislike Kane or have anything against him personally but I do sometimes resent him. I mean, I think Richard Brooker was awesome and should have had the chance to play the roll more than once. He didn't get to. Oh well. Life goes on. Kane got to come back (thanks to Heddon) and that sealed him as Jason for years to come. So, yeah part of me says, "Why him? What's he got that Brooker ain't got?"

I believe wholeheartedly that this is the reason for the backlash against Hodder. And if it is, it's not fair...but, oh well.


Is it unreasonable of me to disagree when people say Kane was the only actor to give the roll personality? I think I'm within reason to disagree with that. Just my opinion.

Of course not, you are well in your right to believe what you choose, just as others are. That's never been the problem, the problem stems from those who attack fans with a positive assessment of Hodder's contributions to Jason and Friday the 13th. It's call intolerance.

I LOVE comparing and contrasting the various Jason actors. It's fun to discuss. But it's also difficult because it inevitably causes anger or impatience.

You can read over this thread and any archived thread from the F13 Forum and see that the anger only comes from the Anti-Hodders. No one goes out of their way to show a dislike of any other Jason actor but Kane Hodder.

As I've said, I'm a neutral guy when it comes to Jason actors. White and Hodder are my top two but I love all the actors except Yu/Kirzinger (And even that is not Ken's fault), in the end, they are all Jason to me.

Rest assured Kane will always be THE zombie Jason so his fans have no need to worry about his legacy.

Hodder nor his fans worry about that, history and the work will speak for itself for generations to come.

[NW77]

Now, NW, riddle me this....read the Bale quote below:

"But then also I think that one very big difference, at least in my eyes, is just the way that we chose to portray the Batman himself. Just because I realized that the TV series was a spoof on what the original Bob Kane intentions had been. I never felt that I’d seen it adequately done in any of the other movies either, in that I really attempted to become a different creature that just kind of ceases to be human at that point."



I still see nothing where he said things like "I play Batman better" or something like that. I'm not denying it, 'cause the way I'm reading it he seem to imply that he or the movie is portraying Batman differently. He never once bash the other Batman actors with reading that quote there. Please highlight one of the sentence where he was & I'll read it again. Comparing to Hodder, Bale didn't whine, claim he is better, more deciated to the role, etc.

Right now, I think some of the talk is getting a little heated. So I'm going to calm down right now. Don't want any fight. :cool:

[Jigsaw]

While I'm not Kane's biggest fan, I think based on his TNB performance (and parts of his JTM and JX performances), he made a decent Jason overall. And I agree wholeheartedly about Stokely Chaffin, she's a total bitch and a lot of the lame shit in FVJ was her idea. I mean the running time was condensed which meant shortened (and weaker) action scenes, because she wanted it shorter.

[Kane Lives]

After saying on the DVD that she snapped at several Directors who didn't know enough about Freddy and Jason to direct the film, Chaffin then insists on Ronny Yu being the Director. Gotta love hypocracy...

I have no kind words for her either. :X

[Jigsaw]

Stokely basically fucked over FVJ. She griped that the original script would been a two and a half hour long movie, but IMO a movie like FVJ needs to be epic-length for more exciting action seqeunces and more storyline. Shortening it to ninety minutes hurt it a lot.

[NW77]

Pardon me for sounding like an idiot, but who is Stokely Chaffin? Thought I can tell she is hated for messing up FvJ & making it short. Not to mention hiring, even thought Yu is a fine director. But not for FvJ thought.

[Jigsaw]

Stokely Chaffin was one of the executive producers on FVJ. She's also a New Line Executive IIRC.

[Rick]

Maybe we do need a sequel to FvsJ with a different producer and director so we can get the chance everyone says was missed with the first.

[sCabbOy]

I don't think anything can save FvJ, not even a new sequel. A movie like that either works, or it doesn't. Way too much stuff has to go into having 2 horror icons on the same stage and quite frankly it can't be done in 95 minutes.

[NW77]

Maybe we do need a sequel to FvsJ with a different producer and director so we can get the chance everyone says was missed with the first.

I hope not. Frankly, I felt one movie is enough. Doing a sequel would be terrible IMO. Beside, many will claim FvJ would've been better with Hodder in it. I doubt having him in it would make it better when you look at JGTH & JX. :p

[Jigsaw]

Way too much stuff has to go into having 2 horror icons on the same stage and quite frankly it can't be done in 95 minutes.


I agree. A movie like FVJ needs to be epic-length for better action scenes and a better story. Condensing it's running time hurt it a lot and probably contributed greatly to why FVJ felt so rushed and sloppy much of the time.

I wouldn't mind an FVJ2, but they need to get a better director and team of writers, lose the flashly filmmaking and get rid of Stokely.

[sCabbOy]

i read somewhere that Hodder may play Pinker in the Shocker remake... true?

I'd be curious to see it since Hodder never really has a lot of dialog as an actor and Pinker does.

[Jigsaw]

IMO they should get Mitch Pileggi back for Pinker in the Shocker remake, he made that role his own.