Puppet Master series [Archive] - F13: The Community

jackdeth

08-05-2007, 03:45 AM

Didn't Band promise us sequels? I want sequels. GOOD ones.

He did about 6 or so months ago, but no new news on them since. He's currently shooting a film called Dangerous Worry Dolls. But after that no one knows exactly what we'll get. Dead Man's Hand was just released on dvd last month, Decadent Evil 2 has already been shot, and I think Gingerdead Man 2 was also shot too. So with any luck he'll announce one of the many sequels he promised as the next project:).

El Rooto

08-05-2007, 04:42 AM

Unless he's fucking with his fans--AGAIN!

I think I've seen you on Full Moon Underground...never joined, though.

jackdeth

08-05-2007, 05:18 AM

Unless he's fucking with his fans--AGAIN!

I think I've seen you on Full Moon Underground...never joined, though.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was BS 'n us all.

Yeah, I'm on that forum also. Although I was absent from their for a number of months, just too busy.

Erik

08-06-2007, 01:18 AM

Call me strange but I like PM 4 & 5 the best.:D

Me too! I've always loved 4 and 5.

El Rooto

08-06-2007, 01:41 AM

4 and 5 were pretty good, but that "demon lord" shit was too cheesy-looking...the Totems looked fine, though, just not Sutek or his followers.

Rich

08-06-2007, 06:06 AM

I like the first four. After that I could care less about them.

Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys was so bad it was good.

Jigsaw

08-06-2007, 07:30 AM

It's been forever since I last saw any of the PM movies. I'm always on the lookout for them wherever I go, be it the old VHS tapes or the super-rare DVD boxed set.

jackdeth

08-06-2007, 07:37 PM

It's been forever since I last saw any of the PM movies. I'm always on the lookout for them wherever I go, be it the old VHS tapes or the super-rare DVD boxed set.
I just looked on Full Moon's website and the box set is still available to buy for $100. I bit pricey, but if your a fan it's worth it.

I like the first four. After that I could care less about them.

Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys was so bad it was good.
You like 4 but not 5? Just wondering why?

4 and 5 were pretty good, but that "demon lord" shit was too cheesy-looking...the Totems looked fine, though, just not Sutek or his followers.
Yeah, I love the cheesyness of Sutek, I think that's part of the reason why they're my favorite.

Rich

08-07-2007, 01:28 AM

You like 4 but not 5? Just wondering why?

For me, Puppet Master 4 and 5 are like Halloween 4 and 5. Part 4 is a very good installment with new plot direction and the 5th was a rushed continuation of the 4th that just can not stand up to the film that came before it. It was not as effective, not as entertaining, and a lot more cheesy.

El Rooto

08-07-2007, 02:13 AM

I prefer 5 to 4 because it had Torch. And genital trauma. And less Sutek and more Totem.

Erik

08-07-2007, 03:19 AM

I prefer 5 to 4 because it had Torch.

Precisely why I like it. Torch is by far my favorite puppet.

El Rooto

08-07-2007, 03:36 AM

Mine too.

I wonder why he was featured in 5 but not 4...

jackdeth

08-07-2007, 03:53 PM

For me, Puppet Master 4 and 5 are like Halloween 4 and 5. Part 4 is a very good installment with new plot direction and the 5th was a rushed continuation of the 4th that just can not stand up to the film that came before it. It was not as effective, not as entertaining, and a lot more cheesy.
Thanks for the explaination, I was just curious.:D

Mine too.

I wonder why he was featured in 5 but not 4...
It's funny cause PM 4, and 5 were shot at the exact same time. They would shoot scenes for part 4 and head off and shoot scenes for part 5. As to why Torch wasn't in PM 4, I don't know. I will find out if I can.:)

El Rooto

08-08-2007, 12:47 AM

Come to think of it, I didn't really enjoy any of the series after 5...

jackdeth

08-08-2007, 03:04 AM

Come to think of it, I didn't really enjoy any of the series after 5...
I like the entire series, the good and the bad. Curse was just fun, Retro had a good story under it all, and legacy was a fun flash back film. But nothing beats the original 5.

El Rooto

08-09-2007, 07:06 PM

Speaking of the original 5, I wonder why Paramount hasn't sued Band's ass off for selling more box sets...

jackdeth

08-09-2007, 08:27 PM

Speaking of the original 5, I wonder why Paramount hasn't sued Band's ass off for selling more box sets...
Cause according to Band he found 70 Plus box sets in Full Moon's storage. So if he's just getting rid of the last remaining sets from 2000, what's the harm right? lol. But as many people (fans) have noticed the box sets are somewhat questionable. They don't exactly match the ones from 2000. The actual box art work, the disc labels, and some of the cover art on the dvd cases seem a tad bit different on the 2005 sets. The disc content appears to be the exact same though.

Hope this helps?:D

As for me... I'm just happy that fans had/have the chance to get their hands on the PM box sets again. That's what matters anyway right?

El Rooto

08-09-2007, 08:37 PM

I already knew they weren't the old ones...
But I don't own the 2000 set, I bought one of the new ones.
II isn't even correctly framed...

jackdeth

08-09-2007, 09:50 PM

II isn't even correctly framed...
Not surprising. The box set transfers I'm pretty sure come from the old Laser Discs. I know Full Moon is doing the same thing for their newest box sets. As for the framing... it doesn't really bother me, I'm just a big Full Moon fan, that I will take what I can get when it comes to the Paramount Era films. I still have my many VHS tapes too.

El Rooto

08-14-2007, 02:41 AM

"'Et 'er brain" is the greatest line ever.

Dead Cell

08-15-2007, 05:52 AM

Puppet Master is a movie I'd like to crank a butt-load of money into and see what happens. Ah, wishful thinking. As for what we actually got:

PM1: Good flick. Decent storyline. Horrible ballroom dancing. ;)

PM2: Weee!!! You gave me animal brains! As far as sequels go, this one took what was established in PM1 and upped the ante. Great flick.

PM3: Ah, fun stuff. Puppets vs. Nazis. And I love the guy they have playing the gestappo agent that Blade is modeled after. Great flick.

PM4: Um... different. Different. Not bad, not great, just different.

PM5: Aww, the puppets all explodey. This one gets points just for giving the puppets some more action bits. Oh yeah, Decapitron is stupid.

Curse of PM: .... I paid money to rent this? ..... For real? Faulk.

Legacy of PM: Read the description on the back of the case. Oh- a clip show. I had enough of that with Curse. Pass.

Retro PM: Not.... super bad. But it kinda' screws with the continuity established in the previous movies doesn't it?

PM vs. Demonic Toys: Oh. My. God. I couldn't have ever imagined that a PM movie with new footage could be worse than Curse of PM, but they pulled it off. Corey Feldman was funny to watch though- I got the feeling he was the only one that knew what a joke the movie was.

Back to some wishful thinking. Puppet Master is one of those series that's well known enough to be viable in theaters and still obscure enough that giving it a fresh start would go largely unnoticed by the general public. I always liked to imagine what a big budget remake would look like. Probably a mix between real puppets for close-ups and CGI puppets for complex movements.
There are two scenes I always had pictured:
1. Jester running and back-flipping all over the place while carrying steak knives. Let him juggle those steak knives too. For him it'd be like those guys that juggle chainsaws.
2. Jester and Leech Woman dancing together. For the longest time I thought this scene actually existed in the movies. Then I realized my idea of what should've been in there got mixed up with what actually happened.

Ooh, and one idea that just came to me. If Jester were spinning his head while in mid-backflip or cartwheel or something- that would just be awesome.

Ron

08-15-2007, 06:56 AM

After Dead Cell's review of these films, they have now become must-see's in my book. I adore full moon and pretty much everything they produce.

El Rooto

08-16-2007, 08:19 PM

The series continuity is so unbelievably crappy. Would it hurt to explain why Tunneler is killed off in II but magically reappears in 4?

Dead Cell

08-16-2007, 09:10 PM

Leech Woman for that matter too. She burns to a crisp in 2 and reappears with no explanations given in Curse.
Torch I always got the impression that they had problems working with his crazy flame-thrower. I attribute that to his sporadic appearances.
Decapitron- I can't remember if he got smoked, but hell if I care. Let that turd stay dead and gone.

The date given at the start of PM1 is something like 1944 or something when Toulon kills himself.
And I think as early as PM2 they screwed that up with the date of his death on the tombstone being much later.
And of course, PM3 changed it yet again, stating that all the events took place after 1944 or whatever.
And then, of course, Retro Puppet Master screwed with it all yet again.
I can't believe that something so simple was screwed every single time. It's like, c'mon guys! You're supposed to know your own story! You're the ones writing it! No one else! It's called Quality Control!!! I just want to smack them. I bet if you asked 3 people down at Full Moon right now about the origin of the puppets, they'd give you 3 different answers.

El Rooto

08-16-2007, 09:58 PM

What's with the Decapitron hate?

Dead Cell

08-17-2007, 08:00 AM

From the head down Decapitron is okay. Cool looking WW2 bomber's jacket, gloves, boots, the whole bit. Really fits in with the theme of the other puppets. But then you look at his head... and it's a giant metal thing that fires off bolts of electricity... and can morph into any shape it wants including human heads.

I was already pushing my suspension of disbelief pretty hard with the puppets running around and all - and then the Totems coming from Hell and whatever- but then they had to throw Decapitron's stupid head in there too and it was too much. Even assuming it were possible today, it sure as hell wasn't possible when Toulon built him back in the 40s.

Plus he's just stupid. :D

jackdeth

08-17-2007, 01:46 PM

Dead Cell

08-17-2007, 08:45 PM

jackdeth

08-19-2007, 03:52 AM

Even looking at them all as stand-alone movies, the last really good one was PM3. 4 and 5 are okay. Curse is just awful. Legacy is just a clip show. Retro isn't bad, but it doesn't come anywhere close to being as good as some of the earlier ones. And PM vs. DT is flat out garbage. Even watching it with a pack of friends, we were all just groaning through the whole thing. That or laughing our asses off at how bad it was.
Everyones different. Me, I find PM 3 to be one of the weaker of the series, it gets way to much hype, IMO. I love the Totems in 4 & 5, and the fact that it's pretty much one big movie. Retro was a good story but not enough money to make it the movie it should have been. Legacy was like a best of movie, which was cool, Curse was the last one with any sort of budget, lol.

El Rooto

08-20-2007, 05:00 PM

Clip shows are for...um...I don't know. But they're not to be part of what coulda been a standalone. They should have just made a short if all we're going to see is 2-7.

jackdeth

08-21-2007, 03:34 PM

Clip shows are for...um...I don't know. But they're not to be part of what coulda been a standalone. They should have just made a short if all we're going to see is 2-7.
Full Moon has made a number of clip movies over the past few years also, like:
Monsters Gone Wild, When Puppets and Dolls Attack, Aliens Gone Wild. They're pretty interesting too. They also made Urban Evil, The Possessed, Tomb of Terror, which are some of the old Paramount Era films just shortened down to about 20 min to a half hour.

I do think Legacy should have been titled something different, to get across the fact it's just a clips movie. We have been promised a PM film/trilogy but, I don't think it will happen. Atleast not a trilogy.

El Rooto

08-21-2007, 09:34 PM

jackdeth

08-22-2007, 05:46 AM

As if Band is ever going to have the money for a trilogy. Puppet Wars failed to get through production because the scale was too grand for Full Moon, so either the new trilogy is never going to be released, or it's going to suck.
I vote for it's going to suck. I don't think he has the money to do a good PM film. Besides the trilogy is suposed to be set durring WW2. It's a period piece, that can cost more money right there.

El Rooto

08-22-2007, 05:53 AM

jackdeth

08-22-2007, 06:00 PM

I dunno. A lot of Band's sequels never get off the ground in the first place. Remember when HE was going to make PMvsDT during the Paramount era?

Which brings up the question of why it never happened...
Yeah, he even had artwork for PM vs. DT. The Videozones on a lot of Paramount Era VHS are filled with unproduced films that he never made. Charles Band is a genius in his own right, but he's also his own worst enemy at the same time. As a long time fan of Empire/Full Moon, I take everything I hear from them as a grain of salt.

http://www.geocities.com/fullmoonfiend/PMVDT.jpg

El Rooto

08-22-2007, 06:31 PM

Maybe we would have seen the puppets and toys and glorious stop-motion!

Did we ever get an explanation as to why DeCoteau didn't film any new F/X footage for CotPM?

El Rooto

09-26-2007, 12:17 AM

On another Curse-related note...

Bad it may be, I love how it was more like the original than it was like the sequels. It was not all just a happy, sunny movie like 4 and 5. It brought back the aspect of the Man fucking with the puppets and getting his due in the end.

Cody

09-26-2007, 12:42 AM

Didn't Band promise us sequels? I want sequels. GOOD ones.

He's supposed to be working on a trilogy of sequels set during World War II. He announced a similar trilogy, to be called Puppet Wars, at the end of Puppet Master 5. Hopefully it'll really happen this time. If it does, I don't think it will have the same concept as the '90s trilogy would've.

Details on that original Puppet Wars project have just recently leaked out. To be written by Jay Woefel and Dave Parker, with Courtney Joyner polishing, the movies would've been titled "Curse of the Puppet Master", "Tomb (or Vault) of the Puppet Master", and "Castle of the Puppet Master". Each would pit the Puppets against classic monsters - Curse/mummies, Tomb/vampires, and Castle/Frankenstein's Monster. Woefel talks about this in more detail and has the original Curse script up on his website. (http://www.jaywoelfel.com/puppetwarsnotes.html)

El Rooto

09-26-2007, 12:45 AM

Yeah, I've read Puppet Wars: Curse of the Puppet Master. It would have been awesome.

El Rooto

11-18-2007, 05:23 AM

It's been forever...is the world ever going to see the scripts to the other two Puppet Wars chapters?

Jigsaw

11-18-2007, 05:34 AM

I have the first PM DVRed when AMC showed it last month. Alright movie, but I remember liking some of the sequels more.

On a side note, here's this cool YouTube tribute video I found for the PM series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWVwPldtey8

El Rooto

11-18-2007, 05:40 AM

The first is a little slow for my tastes.

nottidelterrore

11-18-2007, 05:45 AM

I have the fifth Puppet Master on tape but haven't watched it yet.

I've seen bits & pieces of Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys. It was really late & I only really remember Corey Feldman being in it & that it seemed pretty cheesy. Not that that's a bad thing though.

My friend recently acquired the box set so I'll have to borrow it off him sometime & give 'em a watch. :)

El Rooto

11-18-2007, 05:46 AM

The box set has the uncut Videozones...a major plus.

Jigsaw

11-18-2007, 05:51 AM

Are the Videozones on the PM Legacy DVD uncut too, or the VHS releases?

El Rooto

11-18-2007, 05:55 AM

I don't recall whether or not the Legacy DVD had them uncut.

They most definitely were on VHS. I was just comparing to the more recent Full Moon DVDs, where they cut everything but the "Making Of..." segments.

Jigsaw

11-18-2007, 05:58 AM

Well as long as the VHS releases have the making-of segments that's fine.

I want to get the DVD set so badly. I'm saving up for it and hopefully I can get it for a decent price eventually. I'm still on the lookout for it at places that sell used DVDs.

El Rooto

11-18-2007, 06:05 AM

I heard the original was intended to be a much more violent movie than what we got. When Schmoeller entered the project, he apparently decided to downplay action.

And it was going to be a gorier film still before they edited it.

Jigsaw

11-18-2007, 06:07 AM

I agree that PM1 is a somewhat slow movie, but it picks up towards the end. I remember some of the sequels were pretty fast-paced and much more heavy on the action, 2 and 4 in particular.

Scarecrow

11-18-2007, 08:45 AM

I've seen the first two, taken from the Uni's Cult Film Archive but they only have Curse after this. The first two seem fairly decent though the end of 2 is crazy Jester puts his mind into that woman??? I bet that's never mentioned again :p Unsure whether it's worth skipping to Curse now!

- Scarecrow

Spade

11-18-2007, 10:56 PM

Natman

11-18-2007, 11:05 PM

Personally I would avoid Curse at all costs. The first movie is a little slow, but it's purposefully that way. It's all about pacing though it may have taken it a bit over the top. It's still a fairly good and fairly well reviewed horror movie, though the third is my favorite.

And for those wondering about the videozones on the DVDs, Legacy had them uncut when it was first released. If you buy it now, it doesn't have them at all, though it still has the sticker on the cover promising three hours of bonus material. Those boys over at Full Moon may be a little... slow, but I love 'em.

Dave Dunwoody

11-19-2007, 01:38 AM

I didn't care much for PM1, though it has a nice twist. PM2 and 3 are by far my favorites. I think it sucks that the puppets have become good guys. They did fight the Nazis in 3, which I liked; but that was a personal fight, they weren't being heroes. I thought the introduction of Sutekh and the "evil" totems, making the puppets good by default, was awful.

Natman

11-19-2007, 03:15 AM

The whole thing is, though, the puppets were never bad. It dates back to the first movie where in Toulon's diary he writes: "With me they are harmless, but I fear what they are capable of may be placed in the wrong hands." That's the whole concept right there. Despite the fact that they each have personality, they still in a way mirror the man controlling them. The horror in the first ones comes from the fact that the puppets aren't evil, everything they are doing is a reflection of the man controlling them. It's easily detectable in the films. Good puppet master = good puppets, and vice versa.

I do like PM2, it works the best as a horror film what with having the typical boobs and gore and even going so far as to feel it necessary to kill some of its monsters off, but it just creates so many damn continuity errors in the series. Even though I've come up with a sensible explanation for Toulon's turn to evil, it's still unusual. Also, perhaps more importantly, Toulon was not German. That kind of defeats the point.

El Rooto

11-19-2007, 03:27 AM

As far as continuity goes, they all fuck up each other...even 4 and 5 do.

Dave Dunwoody

11-19-2007, 04:26 AM

True Natman, I should have mentioned that point. It sucks when they're under the control of a good guy. But the addition of the totems to the story pretty much painted them into a corner as the good to Sutekh's evil.

El Rooto

11-19-2007, 04:30 AM

I think "Evil Vs. Eviler" would have been more interesting(and yucky).

Jigsaw

01-05-2008, 06:06 PM

I got the DVD boxed set today in the mail as a belated Christmas present and will get around to watch the series this week. I'm still in awe that I own the boxed set, owning that is like owning an ancient relic.

Patrick

01-05-2008, 10:00 PM

Yea the boxset is really cool.

My bf has it. I bought it for him about 4 years ago at Suncoast. They had like 1 copy left and it was like $100 or something.

I like my Subspecies boxset I got off of eBay last year. I haven't gotten around to watching them yet though.

Jigsaw

01-07-2008, 05:01 AM

I watched Retro and Toulon's Revenge earlier (I'm watching the series in chronological order). Retro's not as bad as it's reputation suggests, and TR was pretty good if a tad overlong and lagging in parts. I rather liked the backstory TR gave.

Patrick

01-07-2008, 06:46 AM

Toulon's Revenge is my favorite installment. I love the WWII settings in Nazi Germany.

Jigsaw

01-07-2008, 06:49 AM

I also enjoyed the WW2 and seeing Nazis bite it never gets old in any medium. I really felt bad for Toulon in TR, too, he almost everything he lived for in his life :( Krauss is a great villain, too.

Patrick

01-07-2008, 06:52 AM

Yea it's a really good sequel/prequel. Never get tired of watching Puppet Master. One of the best soundtracks too.

Jigsaw

01-07-2008, 06:54 AM

I always liked the PM theme as well. I remember PM2 being my favorite, and I'll be watching it sometime this week to see if it's held up. I remember liking PM4 and PM5a lot, too.

It'd be killer if we'd finally get the Puppet Wars Trilogy, and I hope it happens.

Scarecrow

01-07-2008, 09:06 AM

I wish i had access to this box set. :(

- Scarecrow

Jigsaw

01-07-2008, 09:09 AM

I've only seen RPM and TR in the set so far, but it's definitely worth having for the films. The transfers could be better, but they're acceptable. I hope the legal issues get sorted out and the set is able to be legally released at some point.

Patrick

01-07-2008, 09:26 AM

I wish i had access to this box set. :(

- Scarecrow

They did have them still on Full Moon's official site for purchase.

Jigsaw

01-07-2008, 09:31 AM

I got the set when Full Moon had it for sale on discount until December 31st. Only paid $57.34 for it which includes tax and shipping.

El Rooto

01-08-2008, 12:49 AM

I got it for $90.

III is excellent. I think I prefer it to II, come to think of it.

Scarecrow

01-08-2008, 08:51 AM

That's assuming I could afford it. :p

- Scarecrow

Kane Lives

01-09-2008, 09:03 AM

I've saw parts of the first three films and Curse of the Puppet Master over the years on Sci-Fi and AMC.

The only film I've seen all of is Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys. Which wouldn't be the best introduction into the franchise. lol

Dusk

01-10-2008, 11:52 AM

You guys should know, and you can feel free to take my word with a grain of salt - but every copy of the PM box-set sold on FMDirect in the past year or two, have been "official bootlegs" created by Charles Band. Don't let that take away the fun though, thems good movies.

Lance Lives

01-11-2008, 05:16 AM

I'd really be interested in finding a copy of the boxset, but I'd say official ones go for way too much on Ebay, I'll have to look into it. I personally really like the first one, but it's been so long since I've seen the sequels that I couldn't give an opinion.

nottidelterrore

01-11-2008, 05:26 AM

The box set was selling for 50% off on Full Moon's site during December so snagging it for $50 would've been a pretty good deal. $100 is the regular price & is pretty ridiculous.

Lance Lives

01-12-2008, 04:44 AM

Yeah, that's a little steep, I wish I could find 1-3 on VHS.

MaDMaNMaRz

01-12-2008, 09:18 AM

Even though i'm not into any of the Puppet Masters, i'd like to get the Box Set, and each of them on VHS.

Jigsaw

01-13-2008, 05:12 AM

I watched COTPM and PM1. COTPM isn't as bad as it's reputation suggests it to be but one would be hard-pressed to call it a good film, with the Puppets' minimal screentime and the frequent and obvious insertion of stock footage. PM1 has grown on me quite a bit.

Jigsaw

01-18-2008, 07:56 AM

I watched PM2 and so far it's by far my favorite of the series. The Puppets kick ass in this one and I love the eerie vibe the movie has throughout.

El Rooto

05-16-2008, 03:46 AM

I read an interview with David Schmoeller some time ago, and he didn't have nice things to say about the effects in Puppet Master.

Don't see what his problem is with them, I thought they looked great.

Jigsaw

05-16-2008, 03:49 AM

I think the special effects are good as well. I'll take them over any CGI anyday.

El Rooto

05-16-2008, 05:12 AM

Here's a quote by Schmoeller on why Charles Band is a dick:

Charlie did not want my involvement in the franchise because it would look like I had something to do with the success of the franchise. He did not even have the director's commentary on the new Puppet Master DVD because it would reveal that someone else shared in the creation of Full Moon's biggest and most successful franchise. I know I'm whining here - but I've made some good movies for Charlie and made him a lot of money - and have been little rewarded for it. He won't even pay me the residuals that he owes me. It's the usual Hollywood story.

...and effects...

The animation was cool – but always looked hoaky to me. Pinhead rising, then jumping out of the casket is a funny, creepy, surprising moment – a more successful example of the animation. Dave Allen was the best at his work – but, it still looks like animation – and to my taste, rather hoaky...if it was done today, it would probably be a CGI effect – and much more believable.

Jigsaw

05-16-2008, 10:50 AM

The special effects worked for the time and still hold up today.

Scarecrow

05-16-2008, 11:32 AM

Puppet Master is one series that could work well with a modern big budget remake. :p

- Scarecrow

jackdeth

05-16-2008, 03:16 PM

Puppet Master is one series that could work well with a modern big budget remake. :p

- Scarecrow
I think it would be a loss for a studio to do a big budget remake. Just not enough people are into this type of film, sadly:( It would end up being another box office bust. I think I'd rather have them continue on with more DTV sequels. I love little to no-budget films, lol.

The special effects worked for the time and still hold up today.
I agree. I would take David Allen's Stop Motion effects any day over anything CGI could pump out. Take the Stop Motion away and PM wouldn't be the same.

Jigsaw

05-16-2008, 10:59 PM

I honestly miss stop-motion effects work. It may be dated, but it works like a charm.

Natman

05-16-2008, 11:22 PM

I loved the old school effects of the first five films. I really think the first is a great horror film, but completely disagree with Schmoeller. Dave Allen was a master. CGI would not help this series at all.

Jigsaw

05-16-2008, 11:27 PM

It's a true shame David Allen died and never got to complete his movie, The Primevals :( It'll probably never see the light of day.

Natman

05-16-2008, 11:35 PM

It really is. I remember seeing stuff for the Primevils on the old Videozones, looked like it had potential, and I think that anything Full Moon had with Dave Allen was a notch above their other stuff.

...Save for Subspecies, where the effects were almost unecessary.

Jigsaw

05-16-2008, 11:39 PM

I think Allen is truly one of the most forgotten and underappreciated special effects masters. But his excellent work aside, he also seemed like an incredibly friendly and down-to-Earth guy on the Puppet Master VideoZones, and he was clearly someone who had a lot of passion for his work.

nottidelterrore

05-17-2008, 01:43 AM

Stop motion is way better than CGI. :)

I haven't seen any of these flicks...well I may have when I was younger but I don't remember anything. My friend has the box set. I may need to borrow it off him one of these days.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 05:29 AM

I like the original more every time I watch it.

Bert Rosario is good at creepy rasping.

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 05:35 AM

Parts 2 and 4 are my favorites of the series.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 05:36 AM

Cameron is funny.

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 05:38 AM

Cameron was the guy with the glasses in PM4, right? He was pretty hilarious, kind of an asshole but he was entertaining for that reason.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 05:43 AM

That's Cameron.

Jason Adams' comments on the character in the Videozone were amusing. Cameron's so amazing and powerful, not one being from our world could ever stop him. The Totems were cheating bastards too; the one in the car didn't take him on in a fair fight.

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 05:44 AM

I always enjoyed the Totems in PM4 and PM5. After Krauss from Toulon's Revenge and the evil Toulon in PM2, they were probably the best foes the Puppets went up against.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 05:47 AM

I thought Magrew was the most interesting, but stuck in a subpar movie.

I guess I liked the Totems. Sutek himself? Not so much.

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 05:50 AM

I thought Sutek was pretty cool, if more along the lines of a comic book villain.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 06:36 AM

There's just something about those yellow eyes...

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 06:54 AM

Wasn't Sutek a Totem in PM5? It's been a while since I last watched PM5.

El Rooto

05-17-2008, 06:57 AM

Yeah, which I think was a major improvement.

Jigsaw

05-17-2008, 06:59 AM

PM5 wasn't terrible, but one of the weaker ones IMO. It lacked the energy of PM4, and Torch was barely even in it. It's obvious the low budget didn't help the production much, neither did the back-to-back schedule with PM4.

A shame Torch has barely been in the series at all. He's only been in PM2 and PM5, and stock footage briefly seen in Curse.

jackdeth

05-17-2008, 03:36 PM

PM 4 and 5 are my favorites of the series. I like the concept of the Totems as the enemy, its cool seeing the puppets fight something around the same size as them.

El Rooto

05-21-2008, 12:39 AM

So I watched II last night, and I wonder...why the fuck does Camille go on a road trip with the puppets who killed her?

Jigsaw

05-21-2008, 12:59 AM

PM4 never picked up on that ending, making it all the more confusing :thinking:

jackdeth

05-21-2008, 03:37 PM

So I watched II last night, and I wonder...why the fuck does Camille go on a road trip with the puppets who killed her?
The puppets bring her back to life so, my guess is the puppets wanted her to be their new master/keeper. I think that's where the story was meant to go but didn't. This series is so messed up. I don't try to make sense of it as much anymore, I just try and enjoy each film for what it is.

Scarecrow

05-22-2008, 08:55 AM

I thought the point was that was Jester. He takes the fluid that their master was going to use to transfer his soul into a new body and uses it on himself, so that's Jester in her dead body, hence the look. At least that's how I saw it. I've read on a timeline that technically PM2 is the last chronologically aisde from vsDT although it could have been wrong.

- Scarecrow

Jigsaw

05-22-2008, 09:00 AM

Isn't PM2 set before PM4?

Scarecrow

05-22-2008, 09:22 AM

Haven't seen PM4 myself but read on a timeline on some fan site that 4 and 5 both take place before PM2 although, as I said, this could be wrong. I imagine the tiemline isn't exactly clear even by horror standards!

- Scarecrow

Jigsaw

05-22-2008, 09:25 AM

I think the timeline is definitely wrong in that regard. Watching the films in the order they're supposed to be happening, PM2 is set before PM4 and PM5, though what exactly happened during the ending of PM2 is open to debate.

El Rooto

05-22-2008, 01:43 PM

I thought the point was that was Jester. He takes the fluid that their master was going to use to transfer his soul into a new body and uses it on himself, so that's Jester in her dead body, hence the look. At least that's how I saw it.
No, they mention that Camille's throat was slashed, which was how Toulon transferred himself into another body.

jackdeth

05-22-2008, 04:45 PM

that was Jester. He takes the fluid that their master was going to use to transfer his soul into a new body and uses it on himself, so that's Jester in her dead body, hence the look. At least that's how I saw it.
The end of PM 2 can be confusing. I've seen a few people confused over what happens at the end. The spirit in the body is Camilla. That we known from when we hear Camilla's body was found with her throat slashed.

As for the Puppet Master Time line...
There isn't a time line set in stone for this series. Most people place each film on a time line where they think each film should go. The PM series has so many contradictions in it that everyones interpretation of the time line can be different. PM fans have done a great job trying to sort out the time line and, that's also why we see so many different ones out there.

Saturday the 14th

05-29-2008, 11:50 PM

A shame Torch has barely been in the series at all.

agreed... he, Blade and Tunneler are probably my three favorites... i mean how much cooler can you get than a puppet that sets people on fire?

as far as timeline... i always looked at it in this order... 3, 1, 2, 4, 5... i don't include Retro or Curse because both of those films were garbage and didn't seem to keep with the tradition of PM... they just kinda threw them both together to please fans

Jigsaw

05-30-2008, 01:44 AM

Torch has always been my favorite of the Puppets. I guess the low budgets are the reason why he hasn't been used much throughout the series, I'd imagine pyrotechnic effects aren't cheap to do at any rate.

El Rooto

05-30-2008, 02:37 AM

Torch and Tunneler are awesome. They have two of the best kills in the entire series, IMO.

Jigsaw

05-30-2008, 02:38 AM

Definitely. And Torch absolutely owns every scene he's in in PM2.

El Rooto

06-12-2008, 05:02 AM

The more I think about Curse of the Puppet Master, the more it irks me. It had some good character development and some decent gore, but they killed it with an abrupt, stupid ending and some horrid CGI in the last bits, not to mention the stock footage they throw in.

Was the budget really so low they couldn't have Mark Rappaport have a bigger hand in the effects, or were Band and David DeCoteau just being cheapo, corner-cutting bastards?

Jigsaw

06-12-2008, 05:03 AM

The ending of COTPM and the lousy CGI (as well as the lacking puppetry and the frequent stock footage) do indeed hurt the film. I think with a slightly higher budget it would've been a lot better and not as cheap as it was.

El Rooto

06-12-2008, 05:07 AM

Definitely.

Why does Tank spend the whole movie carving a wooden puppet when Magrew just turns him into a tank?

Magrew and Tank are just like the Tinkerer and Big Weele. :side:

Jigsaw

06-12-2008, 05:14 AM

I think COTPM had the potential to be a solid movie but the cheapness of it knocks it down majorly.

Joshg

03-22-2010, 05:17 AM

I'm getting into this series and was curious about the forums' thoughts, 2 years later.

I'm going to watch Retro Puppet Master before I go to sleep, but I have seen the first 6.
Hmm...thoughts so far:

Puppet Master - Dull, but has some 'fun' parts. The puppets are definitely what made the series, not the actual movies, lol.

Puppet Master II - Fun! An improvement! A bit dumb, and Toulon becomes corrupt with power, but I thought it was much darker!

Puppet Master III - Toulon's Revenge...meh. Doesn't get as much credit from me as the others in the first five, but I still enjoyed it. Guess I'm not really a nazi dork.

Puppet Master 4 - Mmm, it was a bit cooped up in the house, and the characters (aside from Rick) sucked, but I enjoyed it a lot!

Puppet Master 5 - Probably my favorite of the series, if not, just behind Part II. Action-packed ending, and continues with the Jarvis of the series: Rick. Torch is back too! :)

Puppet Master 6: The Curse - Umm...it's not as bad as people say, but it certainly is irritating how it was going smoothly until those stupid final minutes had to move the quality to the back seat.

kramerfan

03-22-2010, 06:24 AM

I have a question about the first film.Why are the guys coming for the old guy who shoots himsef?

Joshg

03-22-2010, 06:51 AM

I have a question about the first film.Why are the guys coming for the old guy who shoots himsef?

Because those guys were Nazis who had knowledge about Andre (the old guy) Toulon's secrets to re-animate, and they were going to force it out of him anyway they could. So he killed himself so the secret would die and there'd be no torture...

In other news, I just watched Retro Puppet Master (1999) (Part 7)...oh...my...god...I can't even believe there are fans of this flick, let alone people who would put this above Curse. Curse at least died at the end...this one was never alive! The worst acting I've seen in a loooong time. You can tell David DeCoteau made it because the boys are cute, but can't act for beans.

The series' continuity was already screwed, but you could work your way around it...this...took screw to a whole new level. This was shit! Utter shit! I can actually say I like the first 6, with the first 5 being stronger, but...Part 7 isn't even watchable! Holy fuck! Sorry for the language, but dammit...PM vs. Demonic Toys is supposed to be worse than this? How will I ever make it?

Retro Puppet Master - 1/10...I mean it, it is a pathetic excuse for a movie. What the hell? I'm at a loss for...hope.

Rich

03-22-2010, 03:49 PM

First of all, of course it is the puppets that make this series. You can say that about a lot of movie series.

How would you compair Retro Puppet Master to Puppet Master vs. The Demonic Toys? The thing I like about Retro is how they looked. I like the wooden puppet look, because it reminds you of Pinokio. I think that might have been what they were going for.

Joshg

03-22-2010, 05:32 PM

What I mean is, alone, they aren't good movies. If you replaced the puppets with little monsters in Part I, it wouldn't be good. At all. But the creativity of the puppets add a lot.

As for Retro...I liked Dr. Death and Cyclops and the prototype other ones, but...man, what a stupid movie! Demons in human form chasing Andre all over the-...oh wait...75% of the movie takes place in that theater. Then the slow-motion train scenes and...ugh...I really will never watch this film again. Really, lol

...as for Puppet Master vs. Demon Toys...I've never seen it, that's why I said "How will I ever make it?"

Rich

04-08-2010, 03:24 AM

I just watched the entire box set in order. I must say that after watching 1-7, I think that Parts 5 and Retro are probably the worst ones. I really loved the first four and Curse of the Puppet Master. Part 5 and Retro weren't bad. They were fun, but just not as good. Part 5 was THE worst one though. I kind of enjoyed seeing the old wooden puppets of Retro Puppet Master.

Joshg

04-08-2010, 06:08 AM

How on earth do you think of 5 as the worst one? Especially over Retro. Retro was an abomination! lol

Rich

04-11-2010, 06:45 PM

Retro wasn't a bad film at all actually. I found Part 5 to be extremely dull and redundant. It tried very hard to be Part 4 all over again, but failed misreably. Retro was (like Part 3) a prequel to the series only showing Toulon's very first puppets he ever built which I found interesting. I also liked the characters as well. I really liked the Dr. Death one.

Joshg

04-11-2010, 11:45 PM

Retro was a terrible film.

"Ladeez en gentlemennz"
lol. He couldn't do a French accent for shit.
The production values were so dried up. Boring, felt like a high school play, and...

Well, whatever. We each have our opinions. Hehe,

Psychoticninja

04-13-2010, 12:47 AM

Retro was bad yes.... and also it messed up continuity of the show royally. But, i think Curse was worse. I mean in what UNIVERSE does Curse happen. I mean REALLY. How did the puppets get there? Who is this new puppet master? What was the point of changing the boy into a robot.... ffs.... :D That's my opinion hee hee

Rich

04-13-2010, 06:53 AM

I loved Curse of the Puppet Master. There were unexplained things. Maybe he was meant to be a reboot of sorts.

One major continuity flaw is Six Shooter. He was in Part 3, which was a prequel to the first two, but he wasn't in the first two. Then he was in Parts 4 and up. Another thing is that Andre's character was a completely different character with different motives between parts 2 and 3. Part 4 was a continuation of his character version from Part 3. It seems as though this series is full of continuity questions, but it is still a fun series of movies to watch. I love the puppets!

nottidelterrore

12-11-2010, 05:28 AM

I was at K-Mart a few nights ago and saw that they have a DVD with the first three Puppet Master films on it. I think it was released by Full Moon & Echo Bridge(I think it's them anyway).

The Dream Master

12-11-2010, 05:32 AM

Yep. Don't know what the price is at K-Mart, but Wal-Mart has it for 5 bucks. Not a bad way to get the only Puppet Master movies that are really worth a shit.

nottidelterrore

12-11-2010, 05:32 AM

It was $5 at K-Mart too. I may pick it up sometime.

Hypnocil

04-17-2011, 02:53 PM

Last night I viewed Puppet Master: Axis of Evil. I must say this one wasn't too shabby. :D

The movie begins right where the first movie began; at the Bodega Bay Inn, 1929, just as the two Nazi soldiers have tracked down Andre Toulon. The movie then follows the two Nazi's, and a young man who was working at the Bodega Bay Inn and saw the Nazi's leave Toulon's room.

In addition to the two Nazi's, we also have a Japanese Dragon Lady villian as well as her two ninja henchmen.

Most of the regular cast of Puppets return, with a brand new one making an appearance (it was actually kind of cool :p ).

I'd say if you enjoy the Puppet Master series, this one won't disapoint. Although be warned that the movie ends on a cliffhanger.

One major continuity flaw is Six Shooter. He was in Part 3, which was a prequel to the first two, but he wasn't in the first two. Then he was in Parts 4 and up.

Axis of Evil actually offers a quick explanation for this. It seems Andre had a secret compartment under the puppet case, which had Six Shooter's parts stored away, needing to be repaired.

Another thing is that Andre's character was a completely different character with different motives between parts 2 and 3.

I think that was a very warped, incomplete version of Toulon who ended up going insane. "Camilla" wasn't exactly acting like her normal self at the end of the movie, either. ;) Now as for that preposterous German accent......LOL, who knows?

Natman

04-17-2011, 07:09 PM

Agreed on Axis of Evil. Not a great film by any means, but we're on a Full Moon scale. Easily the best since the first five.

And on Toulon in part 2, other than a simple major continuity fuck-up, my theory has always been that people come back wrong when they are re-animated in full-size bodies. Maybe it has something to do with the amount of fluid used. Still doesn't answer everything, and it's only a possible answer. Still leaves a lot unanswered, especially considering...

My main problem with Puppet Master II is waayyy more with Toulon being German than with Toulon being evil.

Cody

04-18-2011, 12:50 AM

The "half century of nightmares" Toulon experienced while dead has been my explanation for his part 2 insanity.

And on Toulon in part 2, other than a simple major continuity fuck-up, my theory has always been that people come back wrong when they are re-animated in full-size bodies. Maybe it has something to do with the amount of fluid used.

Not a bad theory.

Maybe combine the two, a size/fluid problem and craziness from 50 years of nightmares.