Jason's motivation behind his killings. Besides the murder of his Mother...

[JVY2K]

We all know killing Alice was pure revenge but besides that I also like to think his killing goes beyond just revenge. If you go from the theory that he grew up in the woods then they would have become his home. He would have become attached to them and being already a bit slow and having the trauma of having to grow up in the woods as a child would have messed with the mind pretty bad. Therefore I also view his reason for killing as wanting to keep people out of his home (Crystal Lake, camp as well as woods)...No body likes a trespasser and in Jason's case, his mind being warped from all he went through as a boy takes ridding himself of trespassers to the extreme. Where we would tell them to leave, Jason simply kills them. And enjoys it as well.

[Jigsaw]

That, and the bullying he probably suffered as a boy. I'm sure that set him off too.

[Lammert]

Jason doesn't look for help after people thought he drowned becuase almost every person he knew in his past judged him becuase he is a mongoloid, so he's kind of people shy and has the fear of coming into community. This is also the reason why he starts wearing a sack over his head becuase he's ashamned of his looks. After the camp is closed down due to the series of fires Jason steals parts from the abandoned Camp Crystal Lake to build his own cabin(the shack we see in Part 2) on the other side of the lake near were they would later build the counselors training center. Since he was such a strong human he could survive the winters and like Ginny in Part 2 said, he was living of wild animals and vegitation and every now and then he snuck to the Crystal Lake town to steal food and clothes.
Jason didn't have a reason to kill people yet so he just snuck around.

When Steve Christie reopens the camp in 1979, Jason notices this and stalks around(he's still an innocent person who will do nobody harm).
Then on one night when he stalks around he finds dead bodies and hears noises coming from the camp's beach. He heads towards it and finally sees his mother, Pamela Voorhees who he missed in all those years getting
decapitated by camp counselor Alice. Jason watches this and when Alice leaves in the canoe he runs towards his mother's body and he notices that she doesn't respond to anything(since he didn't understand the meaning of dead until then).
In confusion he takes his mother's head, sweater and the machete that killed her and flees to his shack. Jason is starting to feel anger and rage towards other people. When he's sneaking around town he notices that the girl that killed his mother. He follows her and later that night he sneaks into the house and kills her with an icepick. Killing her felt so good and he has to show this to his mother, so he takes the body to his shack.

Five years later a counselors training center opens a few miles next to Camp Crystal Lake. Jason notices the intruders and feels his anger growing. His mind is very traumatized by his mothers decapitation that anger has taken over, and a huge hate towards intruders and other people.
Remember he's still a mongoloid and can't think like a normal person.

[Jigsaw]

Excellent said Lammert and completely agreed :cool:

[JVY2K]

Jason doesn't look for help after people thought he drowned becuase almost every person he knew in his past judged him becuase he is a mongoloid, so he's kind of people shy and has the fear of coming into community. This is also the reason why he starts wearing a sack over his head becuase he's ashamned of his looks. After the camp is closed down due to the series of fires Jason steals parts from the abandoned Camp Crystal Lake to build his own cabin(the shack we see in Part 2) on the other side of the lake near were they would later build the counselors training center. Since he was such a strong human he could survive the winters and like Ginny in Part 2 said, he was living of wild animals and vegitation and every now and then he snuck to the Crystal Lake town to steal food and clothes.
Jason didn't have a reason to kill people yet so he just snuck around.

When Steve Christie reopens the camp in 1979, Jason notices this and stalks around(he's still an innocent person who will do nobody harm).
Then on one night when he stalks around he finds dead bodies and hears noises coming from the camp's beach. He heads towards it and finally sees his mother, Pamela Voorhees who he missed in all those years getting
decapitated by camp counselor Alice. Jason watches this and when Alice leaves in the canoe he runs towards his mother's body and he notices that she doesn't respond to anything(since he didn't understand the meaning of dead until then).
In confusion he takes his mother's head, sweater and the machete that killed her and flees to his shack. Jason is starting to feel anger and rage towards other people. When he's sneaking around town he notices that the girl that killed his mother. He follows her and later that night he sneaks into the house and kills her with an icepick. Killing her felt so good and he has to show this to his mother, so he takes the body to his shack.

Five years later a counselors training center opens a few miles next to Camp Crystal Lake. Jason notices the intruders and feels his anger growing. His mind is very traumatized by his mothers decapitation that anger has taken over, and a huge hate towards intruders and other people.
Remember he's still a mongoloid and can't think like a normal person.

Well written my friend. If only you had the sense to come up with theories like that way back when you had Russ and I writing that Jason script for that film you wanted to shoot ;)...Incidentally, I still have the 10 or so pages we wrote on it. Would have been a good story too. Zombie Jason vs. Human Jason. Let me know if you ever want to give it a read.

The only disagreement I have on your theory is that I like to think Jason killed prior to seeing his mother die. Maybe late teens when hunters came into the woods or teens started setting up tents in what he's called home for the last few years. My theory on that is for the longest time the mayor of Crystal Lake, not wanting it to get a bad name, covered up any murders committed until the Camp Blood Massacre was too much to ignore. This theory leaves room for a great prequel of a long haired human Jason killin' in the woods years before Part 1.

[Lammert]

Well written my friend. If only you had the sense to come up with theories like that way back when you had Russ and I writing that Jason script for that film you wanted to shoot ;)...Incidentally, I still have the 10 or so pages we wrote on it. Would have been a good story too. Zombie Jason vs. Human Jason. Let me know if you ever want to give it a read.

The only disagreement I have on your theory is that I like to think Jason killed prior to seeing his mother die. Maybe late teens when hunters came into the woods or teens started setting up tents in what he's called home for the last few years. My theory on that is for the longest time the mayor of Crystal Lake, not wanting it to get a bad name, covered up any murders committed until the Camp Blood Massacre was too much to ignore. This theory leaves room for a great prequel of a long haired human Jason killin' in the woods years before Part 1.

I remember you wrote something when I was trying to get a fanmovie together(Axed Films)... and you also remember those girls from the UK we were going to get? She was back on the americom chat. ;)

Anyway, if they can setup a prequel like that then it could be interesting.
Remember when some people are living all alone in an area and don't go out they can get deranged... and since Jason was weak-minded, this could easily happen to him.
I once read a story a long time ago wich took place between Parts 1 and 2, Jason is captured by a bunch of redneck hunters and they are torturing him and things like that. He escapes and kills all of them Friday style.

I'm 50/50 about this theory.

[JVY2K]

I remember you wrote something when I was trying to get a fanmovie together(Axed Films)... and you also remember those girls from the UK we were going to get? She was back on the americom chat. ;)

Yeah man! That was way back when I was goin' come out to the UK and meet you and Gavin (The13thMember for anyone who remembers him)...They were fuckin' fine and I was primed for a piece of tail ;)...It's too bad that trip never materialized. One day though :D...

[Lammert]

Yeah, I'm still in for that... maybe I should visit beautyfull Canada later this
year. ;)

Plus I would love to make trip and visit some of those F13 locations.

[JVY2K]

I remember you wrote something when I was trying to get a fanmovie together(Axed Films)... and you also remember those girls from the UK we were going to get? She was back on the americom chat. ;)

Anyway, if they can setup a prequel like that then it could be interesting.
Remember when some people are living all alone in an area and don't go out they can get deranged... and since Jason was weak-minded, this could easily happen to him.

That and the last thing that happened to him before "drowning" was getting thrown in the lake by a bunch of bullies and left for dead. In his childhood mind, they had tried to kill him. Therefore as he grew up, the idea of killing didn't seem as harsh as it does to others. Afterall, his fellow campers were trying to do it to him. Why shouldn't he do it to others? Especially those invading his home...
ADDED:
Yeah, I'm still in for that... maybe I should visit beautyfull Canada later this
year. ;)

Plus I would love to make trip and visit some of those F13 locations.

I'd be down! I plan to so soem travelling once I complete my culinery arts. You can travel and get wicked well paid jobs cooking in various towns. I plan to pay for my trip that way. I'll have to swing by. See if we can look Gavin up too. That'd be awesome. I'd have a few buds with me so we could make a real badass weekend out of it. I remember you had some pics of some real hot women you were with back in the day man. We'll have to hit up the town. I remember you told me once that the women love a Canadian accent :cool:...I'm hoping I'm single when I do my travelling, because I'd love to hook up with gorgeous women across the globe. Here's to hoping I haven't met that special someone by then :fuckoff:

[Lammert]

I'd be down! I plan to so soem travelling once I complete my culinery arts. You can travel and get wicked well paid jobs cooking in various towns. I plan to pay for my trip that way. I'll have to swing by. See if we can look Gavin up too. That'd be awesome. I'd have a few buds with me so we could make a real badass weekend out of it. I remember you had some pics of some real hot women you were with back in the day man. We'll have to hit up the town. I remember you told me once that the women love a Canadian accent :cool:...I'm hoping I'm single when I do my travelling, because I'd love to hook up with gorgeous women across the globe. Here's to hoping I haven't met that special someone by then :fuckoff:

Hahaha... well some girls here are hot! And if I have my own place by then it's no problem to hang around! I'll show you Amsterdam and all those dirty places haha ;) With a canadian accent girls shouldn't be a problem!

I haven't had a holiday trip this year, and every year I plan something... My idea of this year was a return to the US somehow. But none of my friends want to join because of their work or the money, wich sucks.
And first I have to find a goal, a place to stay and stuff before I can plan anything yet.

[JVY2K]

Hahaha... well some girls here are hot! And if I have my own place by then it's no problem to hang around! I'll show you Amsterdam and all those dirty places haha ;) With a canadian accent girls shouldn't be a problem!

I haven't had a holiday trip this year, and every year I plan something... My idea of this year was a return to the US somehow. But none of my friends want to join because of their work or the money, wich sucks.
And first I have to find a goal, a place to stay and stuff before I can plan anything yet.

I'm in the same boat at your buddies man. Money! It's a bitch. I'm livin' paycheck to paycheck right now. Price you pay when you have your own place. I'll be making killer money when I'm done my culinery program next year though.

But yeah, Amsterdam! A place every man needs to visit at least once while still in his youth :D!

[Brett H.]

Figure I'd post my Jason theory here.

I don't think that Jason was human in parts 1-4. I don't think he became a zombie in part 6. These are just movies, but as far as I'm concerned you have to go by what the movie presents. I don't think Jason teleporting was intentional, it was merely a tactic used by the filmmakers to have Jason be everywhere. But, since I have to go by what I see on the screen, there's no way to explain it other than he teleports or he has the ability to be in more places than one at once.

I don't think Jason was ever a human as you and I are. I think Jason is sort of like Myers, he's just evil. A human couldn't withstand the punishment Jason has taken from parts 1-4 (drowning, living in the forest for years and getting hung, his head slashed, etc...) and a human certainly couldn't come back from the grave. Of course, you could also argue that Jason couldn't be "evil" either, depending on what you believe in. But for my money, Jason exists as an evil entity, which would explain him not teleporting, but being able to be in more than one place at any given point in time, returning from the dead and withstanding all this punishment. As stated, yes, the theory has holes as you could say "Well, evil entities don't exist either", but if you can believe in Jason returning from the dead all rotted with the aid of lightning, then I think this theory is just as plausible and easier to swallow as more "realistic".

Method to his madness? He kills because that's what he's here to do.

[sCabbOy]

I think his only motivation was his mother. He seemed to be a pretty average boy growing up (besides the obvious). He wasn't written to murder until his mother died.

I don't think Jason was evil, but he became evil after the night when his mother died. Revenge is an evil thing and that's that.

[Utellme]

Jason was angry at any counselors since he was left to drown.

[Darth Sinister]

I don't think Jason was pure evil. Just because he kills a lot of people and doesn't appear to be phased by it, doesn't exactly make him evil. I see him more as the victim who finally had enough and started taking revenge for past sins. It just kicked off with his mother's death, realizing that she did love him after all, despite leaving him alone as he was when everything went bad. In his view, Jason is not evil. And his lack of understanding about morals contributes to a very black and white situation. Kill those who harmed him and his mother and those who could possibly do so, even if they never had any intention of doing so.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

I agree with the majority that Jason doesnt kill outta pure evil..just revenge for Alice killing his moms ..i pretty much think thats just basic instinct..i think anybody woulda done the same..thats justice..i also think that hes protecting other kids not to have the same fate he did

[Ron]

I think Jason's sole motivation for his killings is to avenge his mother's death..plain and simple.

[JVY2K]

I think Jason's sole motivation for his killings is to avenge his mother's death..plain and simple.

Can you elaborate? Obviously Jason's reason for killing Alice was revenge but Jason isn't stupid and I doubt he thinks every single person who sets foot in the woods/camp is responsible for killing his mother. He saw who killed his mother, Jason's no dumbass. He might have been a bit slow but I've never gone along with the theory that he was handicapped. People can be born deformed without being handicapped as well. Jason's continued thirst for blood goes far deeper than his mother.

Personally, I think Alice is the only kill he comitted out of revenge for her. The rest is revenge for himself. The way he was treated by human beings because of his looks. The way the counselors didn't help him while he was drowing. And he wanting to rid people of Crystal Lake.

This is all my opinion of course, but to me it just doesn't make sense that every single kill is simply just for his mother when Jason has far more reasons to kill based on how his life was and is...

[Lammert]

Yes, I agree JVY2K... remember how he wants no intruders in Crystal Lake?
In Part 2 he placed this huge tree on the road, just as a warning.
And in Jason Lives when he stops the counselors in the volkswagen? He really warned them not to GO THERE.

I also think he wasn't that stupid, maybe a bit slow mentally.. but the way he stalks around en kills people is very smart, infact if he was really retared he would have just come out waving his pitchfork/axe/machete, and wouldn't wait.

[JVY2K]

Exactly! He's definitely slow and gullible as evident from being fooled into think Ginny was his mother, Tommy was him (Jasojn) as a boy or Freddy (as Pamela) convincing him to go to Elm Street. But that doesn't make him a retard, he's just slow. He's not so stupid that he thinks anyone who enters/lives in Crystal Lake killed his mother.

And I'll correct myself, I also view his Elm Street killings as revenge for his mother as I like to think when Freddy as Pamela tells Jason to go to Elm Street, Jason assumes she wants them killed for having harmed her. Still loving his mother, he sets out for revenge and to fill her request. When he realizes it was actually Freddy then all gloves are off and he goes to war, only killing anyone who gets in his way of Freddy.

[Lammert]

I HATE FvsJ, but I think thats the only possible theory why he kills on Elmstreet.

One thing I also loved, and wich explains that he isn't that stupid is the triple head-chop in Jason Lives.
He jumps from a tree.. right infront of his victims! Who would have thought of that...? It's a shame that zombie Jason never did anything like that again.

[Ron]

[QUOTE=JVY2K;11051]Can you elaborate? Obviously Jason's reason for killing Alice was revenge but Jason isn't stupid and I doubt he thinks every single person who sets foot in the woods/camp is responsible for killing his mother. He saw who killed his mother, Jason's no dumbass.QUOTE]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. For someone that went in the lake knowing damn well he couldn't swim? For someone who thought Ginny was his mother because she put on her sweater? I'd pretty much say that Jason's a simpleton.

[JVY2K]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. For someone that went in the lake knowing damn well he couldn't swim? For someone who thought Ginny was his mother because she put on her sweater? I'd pretty much say that Jason's a simpleton.

FvsJ revealed that Jason was thrown in the lake by a group of kids at camp. Now that can easily be explained as a dream sequence, but I like to think that's the way it happened. Afterall, we're never told exactly how he ends up in the lake and it's the more plausible theory IMO. His Mother takes him to camp hoping he'll make some friends as he probably grew up with none as most would have been afraid of him. Kids end up picking on him and throwing him in the lake where he ends up drowning.

That said, this is all just my opinion. I just like to think of Jason as more than a dumbass mommas boy who walks around the woods stone dumb looking at everyone as his Mother's killer, regardless of sex, age, race, size etc.

[Lammert]

[QUOTE]=Peter Baker;11134]

FvsJ revealed that Jason was thrown in the lake by a group of kids at camp. Now that can easily be explained as a dream sequence, but I like to think that's the way it happened.

I don't agree with this theory... probably becuase FvsJ was such a load of crap and I hated the flashbacks. Sure, it's possible... but somehow I feel that nobody was watching him and he snuck out and tried to swim himself.

[JVY2K]

I don't agree with this theory... probably becuase FvsJ was such a load of crap and I hated the flashbacks. Sure, it's possible... but somehow I feel that nobody was watching him and he snuck out and tried to swim himself.

See, I loved FvsJ. To me, the movie was perfect! A little heavy on Freddy and I wish there would have been more of a storyline for Jason but out of all the would be screenplays, this one was the best IMO.

Now if you, me and Russ and Axed Films had done FvsJ, it would have been far superior ;)...

[Lammert]

Now if you, me and Russ and Axed Films had done FvsJ, it would have been far superior ;)...

I would have never made it... I would make Human Jason vs. Zombie Jason instead... ;)

[JVY2K]

I would have never made it... I would make Human Jason vs. Zombie Jason instead... ;)

I'd love to actually shoot it one day. Would have made a badass fan film!

[Lammert]

I remember I even went to look for a location hahaha....
If only that kittyamericom chick would come, then I would demand to do a topless/nude scene with her. ;)

[JVY2K]

I remember I even went to look for a location hahaha....
If only that kittyamericom chick would come, then I would demand to do a topless/nude scene with her. ;)

That's right! You did have a chick locked down for some nudes, didn't you?

[Lammert]

Whats a Friday the 13th without it...?

Anyone seen the Friday documentary on the Jason X dvd? I hate these two so-called Jason fans.. and one of them says something like "..all these naked chicks get fuckin' slashed and whiped out man, thats what a friday movie is all about!"

[JVY2K]

Whats a Friday the 13th without it...?

Anyone seen the Friday documentary on the Jason X dvd? I hate these two so-called Jason fans.. and one of them says something like "..all these naked chicks get fuckin' slashed and whiped out man, thats what a friday movie is all about!"

Yeah, they were idiots.

[Lammert]

We should have been there! Then the documentary would run for 5hours discussing all them theories.. ;)

[JVY2K]

That'd be sweet! They definitely interviewed the wrong two fans. Those dudes were such morons!

[Uncle Hoody]

Let's try to keep this discussion on point guys


I've always wondered in Friday the 13th, if some of the first person camera shots were maybe Jason himself, watching. Then at the end, we'd go with the theory that he seen Pam decapitated.

I think his motivations in murder lie in the primal territorial instinct in animals. Because of the abuse and physical and mental impairments, you could say Jason was operating on this basis and as a result, he was like a dog with his territory marked.

You look at his attack on Chris and its probably another throw back to his animal instincts.

[Lammert]

You look at his attack on Chris and its probably another throw back to his animal instincts.


Yeah, when I watched Part III for the first time I was like... "why doesn't he just kill her in that flashback?". Perhaps Jason had somekind of crush, and tried to take her with him(maybe back to his shack?).
I would love to know what happenend in the end...

[Melanie Jarvis]

See, killing Alice was probably the only thing he planned to do, but then afterward, he loved how powerful it made him feel. After a lifetime of being picked on by others, he finally felt in control.

[Rich]

Besides avenging what happened to him and his mother, he is territorial. The woods are his woods and anyone who trespasses becomes his, in his mind.

[Darth Sinister]

Recall that his mother tried to keep people from coming back to Camp Crystal Lake, by setting the fires and polluting the lake. So his barring people from coming back to the area with the log and giving the eye to Abel do fit with the territorial concept. But for every person he kills, it's because he sees his victims the same way his mother saw her victims. The ones responsible for all that has happened. But as time went on, he became frustrated and just left it at killing people. It is also possible that Jason carries a bit of the insanity that his mother had. That he could've gone insane and like how his mother could hear Jason speak to her, he could her his mother speak to him.

Jason's not stupid, but he can be tricked. In the case of Chris, I think he thought that she was dead and thus he left her alone. I don't think he ccould distinguish between unconscious and dead, at the time. He thought Paul and Ali were dead, but as we see, they weren't. However, as time passed he did catch on. Most of his victims are those who are awake and often aware of what's going on.

As to FvsJ, Freddy manipulated him the same way Ginny described a possible scenario regarding Jason. The same one she attempted. That Jason waits for his mother to speak to him and tell him what to do. Whether it's that his work pleasing his mother is done or she wants him to kill someone else. Freddy understood this and that's why he appeared as Pamela, to get him to do his dirty work.

[Darth Reaper]

Well, looky what I've found here.

First, I'm one of those people who prefer to think that Jason did die in the lake in 1957. This is why Tommy Jarvis was able to trap Jason in Crystal Lake at the end of F13 part 6. He said that the only way to stop Jason was to return him to his original resting place. He trapped Jason in Crystal Lake and he was stopped. Jason remained inactive until Tina accidentally awakened and freed him. If she hadn't done that, Jason would probably still be there now.

I like to think that after Jason died, his spirit remained trapped in the Crystal Lake area, something that seems to happen to people who die traumatic/untimely deaths sometimes. Jason was able to see and hear everything around him but was unable to interact with the living world. Maybe he even followed his mother around, clinging to her since she was the one person that he felt connected to. When he saw his mother killed, he was filled with a terrible rage and sorrow. He gave into that rage and sought vengence, not just for his mother's death, but all of the misery that he had also suffered.

As I've said in the past, one way that I like to look at Jason is being like the spirits from JU-ON aka THE GRUDGE. He's a restless spirit who's trapped between life and death because of the tragic circumstances of his life and death. He can't go back to his old life and he can't go on to the afterlife. He's trapped in a state of perpetual torment and it fills him with a rage that's so terrible that the only way that he can find to deal with it is to lash out at others, to take his anger out on them. But, no matter how many people he kills the pain never goes away, and neither does the rage, so he's driven to do it over and over again, trapped in an endless cycle of violence.

Another way that I've thought about looking at Jason can best be explained in STAR WARS terms. When Jason gave into his rage and sought vengence he basically crossed over to The Dark Side. As a result, he can now tap into The Dark Side and use it to give him power.

But at the same time, The Dark Side has now completely consumed Jason's existence. It keeps him angry and miserable, and it drives him to placate those feelings by lashing out at the world around him. The pain that Jason feels never goes away because The Dark Side won't let it go away.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that we tie Jason into the STAR WARS mythology or anything here, I'm just using some STAR WARS termanology to paint a picture of what I'm trying to say.

[Jigsaw]

That's a very good interpretation, DR.

I definitely think that Jason's killing and his immortality make him feel in control after he was abused and bullied for so long, and his anger and hatred keeps him going. It's gotten to the point where he has no reasoning anymore and views everyone as guilty.

[Darth Sinister]

Well, looky what I've found here.

First, I'm one of those people who prefer to think that Jason did die in the lake in 1957. This is why Tommy Jarvis was able to trap Jason in Crystal Lake at the end of F13 part 6. He said that the only way to stop Jason was to return him to his original resting place. He trapped Jason in Crystal Lake and he was stopped. Jason remained inactive until Tina accidentally awakened and freed him. If she hadn't done that, Jason would probably still be there now.

Course, being chained to the bottom and having a propeller blade to his neck would make him sleep, as FvsJ calls it.

I like to think that after Jason died, his spirit remained trapped in the Crystal Lake area, something that seems to happen to people who die traumatic/untimely deaths sometimes. Jason was able to see and hear everything around him but was unable to interact with the living world. Maybe he even followed his mother around, clinging to her since she was the one person that he felt connected to. When he saw his mother killed, he was filled with a terrible rage and sorrow. He gave into that rage and sought vengence, not just for his mother's death, but all of the misery that he had also suffered.

As I've said in the past, one way that I like to look at Jason is being like the spirits from JU-ON aka THE GRUDGE. He's a restless spirit who's trapped between life and death because of the tragic circumstances of his life and death. He can't go back to his old life and he can't go on to the afterlife. He's trapped in a state of perpetual torment and it fills him with a rage that's so terrible that the only way that he can find to deal with it is to lash out at others, to take his anger out on them. But, no matter how many people he kills the pain never goes away, and neither does the rage, so he's driven to do it over and over again, trapped in an endless cycle of violence.

Another way that I've thought about looking at Jason can best be explained in STAR WARS terms. When Jason gave into his rage and sought vengence he basically crossed over to The Dark Side. As a result, he can now tap into The Dark Side and use it to give him power.

But at the same time, The Dark Side has now completely consumed Jason's existence. It keeps him angry and miserable, and it drives him to placate those feelings by lashing out at the world around him. The pain that Jason feels never goes away because The Dark Side won't let it go away.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that we tie Jason into the STAR WARS mythology or anything here, I'm just using some STAR WARS termanology to paint a picture of what I'm trying to say.


Uh...yeah. I just think it's easier to say he's practically immortal due to a rare genetic flaw.

[Jigsaw]

I always thought his immortality was the result of a genetic error myself.

[Rick]

I think his only motivation is to continue what Pam started and honor her as she tried to honor him by keeping the camp closed. However his idea seems to extend to all of the woods, not just the camp.
There was never any mention of Jason killing before Alice that i can remember, unless it was in JGTH, but even then I don't think so.
I agree Alice was revenge but beyond doing what he believes his mother wanted I don't think he has another motive.

[Darth Reaper]

Course, being chained to the bottom and having a propeller blade to his neck would make him sleep, as FvsJ calls it.- Darth Sinister

True, but I would say that if nothing else, Jason could have dragged that rock back to shore, or even broken the lock to the chain with enough work.

And, parts 2-4 alone show that Jason can recover from severe injuries by himself. He had his neck broken and an axe buried in his forehead and he still got up and walked away. In part 6 he's even more powerful than he was in those movies, so the fact that he didn't recover on his own suggests that there may have been more going on.

I tend to think that those things served to prevent Jason from leaving the lake on his own, and thus allowed it to subdue him. As long as Jason can come and go under his own power the lake can't get ahold of him, but if you make it so that he can't leave the lake easily, then it will start to steal his power and render him dormant.

Uh...yeah. I just think it's easier to say he's practically immortal due to a rare genetic flaw.

I always thought his immortality was the result of a genetic error myself.- Jigsaw

I can't go along with that idea. A genetic flaw wouldn't explain how Jason can be resuscitated by a lightening bolt after sitting in a grave and rotting for a few years. And, it wouldn't explain how he was able to escape from the bowels of Hell in FREDDY VS. JASON.

I'm going to stick with the idea that Jason rose from the grave to follow in his mother's footsteps and has been a supernatural being since part 2, just not as powerful as he is now.

Also, immortal doesn't seem like the right term for Jason; undead is more like it. He's trapped between worlds, neither truly living nor truly dead. For me, immortality suggests that you are alive and will stay that way indefinately. But, I guess that's a matter of perception.

I definitely think that Jason's killing and his immortality make him feel in control after he was abused and bullied for so long, and his anger and hatred keeps him going.

There could be something to that. After years of being shunned and ridiculed, Jason may revel in having the power to strike back at those who were responsible for his misery. It could give Jason a tremendous sense of satisfaction to lash out at all of those "normal people" who wouldn't accept him. Jason doesn't neccessarily lack intelligence, but I do think that he's trapped in the mind set of a child for the most part, so he reacts to things in a child-like way.

[Jigsaw]

I can't go along with that idea. A genetic flaw wouldn't explain how Jason can be resuscitated by a lightening bolt after sitting in a grave and rotting for a few years. And, it wouldn't explain how he was able to escape from the bowels of Hell in FREDDY VS. JASON.


His body's reaction to the electricity could be a result of his genetic error.

I like your theories, BTW. While I don't 100% agree with every single thing, you've written it all very well and I agree with a lot of what you've said. You've got an excellent interpretation of Jason's motivation and his powers.

[Darth Reaper]

His body's reaction to the electricity could be a result of his genetic error.- Jigsaw

The thing is I'm not sure his body could react to the lightening other than to get burned because he was dead and his body was decaying. That usually means that there is nothing going on there anymore; no reactions because the body doesn't work anymore and is falling apart.

Saying that Jason can cheat death because of some genetic abnormality sounds like an attempt to ground him in sudo-reality/sudo-science, and I guess that just doesn't appeal to me. I prefer to go with a strictly supernatural explanation, because with the supernatural there aren't many rules. Jason continues to rise from the grave because he's been empowered by supernatural forces, and fueled by undying rage. I don't mean to offend you, this is just how I feel.

[Darth Sinister]

True, but I would say that if nothing else, Jason could have dragged that rock back to shore, or even broken the lock to the chain with enough work.

He could've or he could've been unconscious. His eye being open was to let us know that the door was open for a seventh film. As we see in the fourth film and seventh films, Jason isn't stopped. He kills Samantha and Paul in the fourth film and the seventh film, he goes and kills Sandra, I think it is. We also see in the eighth film, that Jason climbs aboard the Lazarus from the lake. So the lake being his final resting place was a desperate attempt on Tommy's part to stop him, since he failed earlier. He was trying to apply the occult to Jason.

I tend to think that those things served to prevent Jason from leaving the lake on his own, and thus allowed it to subdue him. As long as Jason can come and go under his own power the lake can't get ahold of him, but if you make it so that he can't leave the lake easily, then it will start to steal his power and render him dormant.

Nah, I just disproved that.


I can't go along with that idea. A genetic flaw wouldn't explain how Jason can be resuscitated by a lightening bolt after sitting in a grave and rotting for a few years. And, it wouldn't explain how he was able to escape from the bowels of Hell in FREDDY VS. JASON.

We know that people can have their hearts started again by using a defibulator. No genetic flaws there. As Freddy and the researchers at the Crystal Lake Research Facilty said, Jason has a regeneration factor. He's practically immortal. He cannot be killed by conventional means. He can only be made to sleep. He is similar to the Immortals from Highlander, more particularly, from the series and the last two films. Immortals who suffer from the shock of a violent death, so long as it is not decapitation, will have their bodies shut down until they've healed all the way. In this case, Jason shuts down as we see him down in 2-4. His body did rot, because it was put underground where the worms and maggots got ahold of him. But the lightning wound up restarting his heart, since his body was only dormant. Once revived, he was back in action. In the seventh film, Tina was willing her father alive and accidently caused Jason's heart to start beating again. In the eighth film, another jolt of electricty revived him. In the ninth film, his body was destroyed and thus couldn't pull itself back together. But his evil was so complete, that he could mutate into a creature to inhabit another person's body for a short time, until he was in his bloodline. Duke applied the occult the same way Tommy tried and while it did work temporarlily, all he had to do was just get up. As Freddy said, all you have to do is wake up and he did. He wasn't pulled all the way into hell. His body was just dragged a few feet underground and left there. His soul was in hell, but all Freddy had to do was enter the dream world to bring him back.

[Jigsaw]

I don't mean to offend you, this is just how I feel.


None taken at all. We all have our different interpretations of Jason, and there will never be a universal agreement as to what makes him keep on going. You've made an excellent case as to why you feel the way you do about him.

[Darth Reaper]

Sorry DS, I still can't get behind the genetic anomaly idea.

He could've or he could've been unconscious. His eye being open was to let us know that the door was open for a seventh film.- Darth Sinister

Naturally, but even though Jason's eye was open, he wasn't going anywhere. I don't believe that that rock and chain alone could hold him prisoner. Again, if Tommy could move the rock, Jason certainly could. He could drag it back to shore and find something to cut the chain with, or he could have broken the lock that kept the chain fastened to the rock.

As for the injury to his neck, we've seen him come back from severe injuries before. Since he was most definately (at least in my eyes) undead by by part 6, I don't think that that neck would would stop him for long.

I still have to think that it was the lake that ultimately subdued him, and everything else simply gave the lake time to render him innert.

As we see in the fourth film and seventh films, Jason isn't stopped. He kills Samantha and Paul in the fourth film and the seventh film, he goes and kills Sandra, I think it is. We also see in the eighth film, that Jason climbs aboard the Lazarus from the lake. So the lake being his final resting place was a desperate attempt on Tommy's part to stop him, since he failed earlier. He was trying to apply the occult to Jason.

But, in all of those cases Jason could come and go from the lake without anything to hinder him. Again, my theory is that you have to trap him in the lake long enough for it to have a chance to subdue him. As long as Jason is free to come and go as he pleases, the lake won't have a chance to get ahold of him.

Remember at the end of part 7, Tina summons her father to stop Jason. He wraps a chain around Jason's neck and pulls him into the water. Jason isn't seen again. We don't see Dad do anything else to Jason, so we can assume that he stopped Jason by once again trapping him in the lake and allowing it to render him dormant. Perhaps he stayed there and held Jason prisoner until the lake could do its work on him, then he returned to the afterlife once Jason was innert.

As Freddy and the researchers at the Crystal Lake Research Facilty said, Jason has a regeneration factor. He's practically immortal. He cannot be killed by conventional means. He can only be made to sleep.

I don't recall Freddy saying anything about Jason being able to regenerate, but that's just me splitting hairs.

And, I would argue that Jason's regenerative powers come from the supernatural, not from genetics. The same supernatural forces that allowed Jason to cheat death in the first place also allow his body to put itself back together again when it's been damaged.

Duke applied the occult the same way Tommy tried and while it did work temporarlily, all he had to do was just get up. As Freddy said, all you have to do is wake up

The reason that Jason was able to get out of Hell is because of Freddy's intervention. Whether he used the last of his power to bring Jason back like the suggest in the novel, or he simply showed Jason what he needed to do to get back, the point still stands that Freddy made it possible for Jason to come back. If he hadn't intervened, Jason would still be in Hell.

He wasn't pulled all the way into hell. His body was just dragged a few feet underground and left there. His soul was in hell, but all Freddy had to do was enter the dream world to bring him back.

Bodies aren't usually taken to Hell, souls are. Once your soul is in Hell, you're all the way there.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here (unless you want to continue to slug it out with me for a couple more rounds), because I'm sticking with the supernatural idea. I just like it better.

[Scarecrow]

I think Part VI's ending had an element of the mystical about it, what with Tommy's books and all. I think that by chaining Jason down Tommy in a sens einvoked memories of the original drowning. Jason is fine with water most of the time but being HELD under the water triggered his subconsious terror from the original event. He panics, he's suddenly the drowning child and the wound Tommy inflicts is enough to shut his system down. He just shuts down from the stress of it all.

When Tina wakes him up the panic instantly sets back in but luckily for Jason she breaks the chain and frees him. This also ties into what we know from FvJ.


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I think in JL, Jason being chained underwater probably brought back that feeling of helplessness he felt when he first drowned and could've very well triggered his original drowning memories. He even seems genuinely scared once he's chained underwater in JL.

[Darth Sinister]

Naturally, but even though Jason's eye was open, he wasn't going anywhere. I don't believe that that rock and chain alone could hold him prisoner. Again, if Tommy could move the rock, Jason certainly could. He could drag it back to shore and find something to cut the chain with, or he could have broken the lock that kept the chain fastened to the rock.

We don't know if Jason could break metal. We've never really seen that. We've seen him batter a door until it fell over. We're also assuming that Jason was even awake. Like I said, the open eye was to let fans know that there was another film coming. When the seventh film starts, we see the footage of Jason and more than likely, he was out cold.

As for the injury to his neck, we've seen him come back from severe injuries before. Since he was most definately (at least in my eyes) undead by by part 6, I don't think that that neck would would stop him for long.

Yes, Jason can come back. But it depends on the severity of the trauma. Tommy's attack left Jason out cold for several years until the lightning restarted his heart. Tina restarted his heart after the neck injury. Jim's anchor restarted his heart with the electricity. The injuries in the early films just kept him out for a short while. They weren't repeated or as traumatic.

I still have to think that it was the lake that ultimately subdued him, and everything else simply gave the lake time to render him innert.

Disproved by the fourth, sixth, seventh, eighth and FvsJ.


But, in all of those cases Jason could come and go from the lake without anything to hinder him. Again, my theory is that you have to trap him in the lake long enough for it to have a chance to subdue him. As long as Jason is free to come and go as he pleases, the lake won't have a chance to get ahold of him.

The lake is just a lake. Nothing more.

Remember at the end of part 7, Tina summons her father to stop Jason. He wraps a chain around Jason's neck and pulls him into the water. Jason isn't seen again. We don't see Dad do anything else to Jason, so we can assume that he stopped Jason by once again trapping him in the lake and allowing it to render him dormant. Perhaps he stayed there and held Jason prisoner until the lake could do its work on him, then he returned to the afterlife once Jason was innert.

Yes, and if JBC hadn't cut out the ending, we would've seen that wasn't true. What we do have is a Jason rendered unconscious again, but awakened soon after.

I don't recall Freddy saying anything about Jason being able to regenerate, but that's just me splitting hairs.

No, but you get the point.

And, I would argue that Jason's regenerative powers come from the supernatural, not from genetics. The same supernatural forces that allowed Jason to cheat death in the first place also allow his body to put itself back together again when it's been damaged.

Genetics allows for more simplicity and logic.


The reason that Jason was able to get out of Hell is because of Freddy's intervention. Whether he used the last of his power to bring Jason back like the suggest in the novel, or he simply showed Jason what he needed to do to get back, the point still stands that Freddy made it possible for Jason to come back. If he hadn't intervened, Jason would still be in Hell.

Yes, but as Freddy said, all he had to do was wake up. When we see Jason, he's laying in the ground.

Bodies aren't usually taken to Hell, souls are. Once your soul is in Hell, you're all the way there.

We see the body being taken literally to hell.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here (unless you want to continue to slug it out with me for a couple more rounds), because I'm sticking with the supernatural idea. I just like it better.

I didn't say you had to change your mind. Just saying that supernatural isn't the only answer. Genetics is far more logical and keeping in tune with the story.

I think in JL, Jason being chained underwater probably brought back that feeling of helplessness he felt when he first drowned and could've very well triggered his original drowning memories. He even seems genuinely scared once he's chained underwater in JL.

Scared? All I see is Jason trying to get ahold of Tommy so he could choke the little bastard and then when Megan brings herself out there, he tries to kill her. I don't see fear. If anything, I see the usual red hot anger. Like I said, Tommy was looking for a fix. Doesn't mean that he was right at all.

[Darth Reaper]

Disproved by the fourth, sixth, seventh, eighth and FvsJ.- Darth Sinister

Those films don't disprove anything. I've already given ways for my idea to work.

The lake is just a lake. Nothing more.

The lake is Jason's original resting place, so it has power over him when you can trap him in it. :p

Yes, and if JBC hadn't cut out the ending, we would've seen that wasn't true. What we do have is a Jason rendered unconscious again, but awakened soon after.

The scene was cut, so it's irrelevant now. Plus, Jason was dormant at the beginning of part 8, negating the cut scene further. If Jason was still active at the end of part 7, why would he be dormant at the beginning of pat 8. I would think that he would rather leave the lake and continue his hacking and slashing ways than go night night.

Genetics allows for more simplicity and logic.

Genetics is far more logical and keeping in tune with the story.

I disagree. The supernatural works just fine within the context of a fictional world. And, no offence, but to me at least sometimes trying to wrap these things in sudo-science sounds even cornier than the supernatural. With the supernatural there are no rules, so it's much simpler to use that. If we're going to play fast and loose with reality anyway we'd might as well go all the way with it and use the supernatural.

Besides, I like the FRIDAY THE 13TH series as a ghost story better than saying that Jason is some kind of genetic freak.

[Jigsaw]

Scared? All I see is Jason trying to get ahold of Tommy so he could choke the little bastard and then when Megan brings herself out there, he tries to kill her. I don't see fear. If anything, I see the usual red hot anger. Like I said, Tommy was looking for a fix. Doesn't mean that he was right at all.


Look at the way he thrashes and struggles to break free of the chain noose once he's chained underwater. He seemed very scared to me, although I suppose he seeming scared during that scene doesn't mean he actually was.

[Darth Sinister]

Those films don't disprove anything. I've already given ways for my idea to work.

Jason is not stopped by a resting place. He's stopped by water in the lungs.

The lake is Jason's original resting place, so it has power over him when you can trap him in it. :p


We don't really know that he did drown. For all we know, he just went to the other side. It was always assumed, following the retcon with the second film, that he drowned.

The scene was cut, so it's irrelevant now. Plus, Jason was dormant at the beginning of part 8, negating the cut scene further. If Jason was still active at the end of part 7, why would he be dormant at the beginning of pat 8. I would think that he would rather leave the lake and continue his hacking and slashing ways than go night night.

If the deleted scene had been left in, the eighth film wouldn't have him be dormant. He'd be out and about. Like I said, Jason wasn't stopped because he was under water where he allegedly drowned. He was stopped because John Sheppard killed him. Then he got jolted alive again.

I disagree. The supernatural works just fine within the context of a fictional world. And, no offence, but to me at least sometimes trying to wrap these things in sudo-science sounds even cornier than the supernatural. With the supernatural there are no rules, so it's much simpler to use that. If we're going to play fast and loose with reality anyway we'd might as well go all the way with it and use the supernatural.

Besides, I like the FRIDAY THE 13TH series as a ghost story better than saying that Jason is some kind of genetic freak.

Well, then you dislike the whole series because that's the official explaination. Jason just happened to be a genetic freak. Not a ghost.


Look at the way he thrashes and struggles to break free of the chain noose once he's chained underwater. He seemed very scared to me, although I suppose he seeming scared during that scene doesn't mean he actually was.

He's thrashing because he's trying to get at Tommy. When he leaps up and onto the boat, he brings Tommy down. Once underwater, they start struggling. Jason wants to kill Tommy, while Tommy is trying to get to the surface. Jason didn't realize that Tommy got the chain around his neck and so he's shocked to find that he cannot move too well. But he can move enough to get a hold of Tommy and pull him towards him, so that they start struggling as he's choking him. Notice that right after, Jason's not struggling. He stops until Megan comes at him and then he goes after her. Once she's taken him out, Jason's done for the next few years. He's dormant because of the trauma until Tina starts his heart. In fact, she can sense someone down there which is what causes her to use her abilities. This restarts Jason's heart, essentially powering him up. The chain, after several years, has rusted and Tina's efforts break the chain link, thus freeing him.

[Darth Reaper]

Jason is not stopped by a resting place. He's stopped by water in the lungs.- Darth Sinister

Being undead, I don't think Jason can drown, so water in his lungs is irrelevant.

Well, then you dislike the whole series because that's the official explaination. Jason just happened to be a genetic freak. Not a ghost.

You say that, but I'm not convinced. Looking at FRIDAY THE 13TH part 6 on up I see a very overtly supernatural horror movie series, with a rotting corpse that's reanimated and sustained by the spirit of a very angry dead boy. And, even in parts 2-4 I can see where the supernatural can be suggested.

Now, I need to go back to an earlier comment of yours because I just thought of a responce (these things take awhile sometimes :D ).

He is similar to the Immortals from Highlander, more particularly, from the series and the last two films. Immortals who suffer from the shock of a violent death, so long as it is not decapitation, will have their bodies shut down until they've healed all the way.

I prefer to think of him as being similar to Eric Draven from THE CROW in that he was dead, then rose from the grave in his physical body, and now has the power to regenerate whenever his body is damaged.

[Jigsaw]

And, even in parts 2-4 I can see where the supernatural can be suggested.


I agree there. The feats of strength and durability he showed in Parts 3 and 4 alone showed he wasn't a normal human, as well as surviving what he did over the course of Parts 2-4.

[Jack Bauer]

I think Jason is a strong guy manly because he was like Rambo living in those woods. He would be like stalking, killing, and tracking his prey or working out like chopping trees down with a homemade axe.

[Darth Sinister]

Being undead, I don't think Jason can drown, so water in his lungs is irrelevant.

Sure it does, because we see him breathe. Every injury inflicted, stops him and depending on how long, he stays down until an X factor comes into play.

You say that, but I'm not convinced. Looking at FRIDAY THE 13TH part 6 on up I see a very overtly supernatural horror movie series, with a rotting corpse that's reanimated and sustained by the spirit of a very angry dead boy. And, even in parts 2-4 I can see where the supernatural can be suggested.

JL has those elements because that's what McLaughlin wanted. Doesn't mean that in-universe, Tommy was right. He wasn't. 2-4 has nothing on supernatural? What you have is, besides a nearly unstoppable killer, is people having bad dreams.


I prefer to think of him as being similar to Eric Draven from THE CROW in that he was dead, then rose from the grave in his physical body, and now has the power to regenerate whenever his body is damaged.

That's fine, but that is not what he is. He just happens to be practically immortal, due to a genetic mutation of sorts.

I agree there. The feats of strength and durability he showed in Parts 3 and 4 alone showed he wasn't a normal human, as well as surviving what he did over the course of Parts 2-4.

What did he do with his strength that was unusual, compared to 6-10 and FvsJ? Tossing bodies through windows? His mother did that and she was older and not nearly as strong looking. Smash through one door? He came at it just right. I suppose that refers to what he did with Rick in the third film, with the eyeball. That's the only one that really comes to mind. The rest is something that a guy who was naturally strong, could do.

[Jigsaw]

I reckon there's few, if any, people in real-life who can survive having a machete slice through their shoulder and cut into vital arteries without blood loss, people who can survive having their neck broken on a noose, and people who can bust through a wooden door and shatter it into countless pieces.

[Jack Bauer]

Personally after thinking about it, it just might be Jason's heart that made him keep him going like a beast while as a human. But after Tommy hit him in the machete that was the end of Human Jason. Zombie Jason is a whole different story.

[Darth Reaper]

Sure it does. What happens in-universe is what the director wants to happen. The story is what the filmmakers make of it until somebody else does something to contradict it, and nobody has.

[QUOTE]2-4 has nothing on supernatural? What you have is, besides a nearly unstoppable killer, is people having bad dreams.

The fact that the killer is nearly unstoppable alone is enough to suggest the presence of the supernatural.

That's fine, but that is not what he is. He just happens to be practically immortal, due to a genetic mutation of sorts.

You speak as if your viewpoint is fact, and it isn't. I guess I'm guilty of the same thing so I think it would be good to reiterate that these are merely how we prefer to look at the series. Neither of us is neccessarily right beyond a shadow of a doubt.

With that said there hasn't been anything in the films that suggests that Jason has some kind of genetic mutation that allows him to cheat death. Sure, he was born deformed, but lots of people are born deformed and can't do the things that Jason does.

On the other hand, plenty of things have happened in the films to demonstrate the presence of the supernatural, such as Jason repreatedly rising from the grave, possessing other people's bodies, getting dragged into Hell by demons and then getting out of Hell thanks to Freddy.

[Jigsaw]

Regarding what Jason is, what makes him immortal and what his motivation is, it all boils down to one's own personal interpretation. I don't think everyone will ever universally agree who or what Jason is. Some think he was just a normal human, others think he was demonically-possessed, others think he was born with a genetic defiency (my preferred interpretation) and others think it has something to do with the supernatural.

Frankly though, I think these conflicting interpretations are part of what make the series a lot of fun. It's up to you to fill in the gaps as to what makes Jason what he is, and while I may not always agree 100% with what some people believe him to be, nevertheless it is fascinating to read different viewpoints and interpretations about him.

[Jack Bauer]

Maybe the whole series just revolves around the entire myth of what is Jason Voorhees and why does he kill.

[Darth Sinister]

[QUOTEJL has those elements because that's what McLaughlin wanted. Doesn't mean that in-universe, Tommy was right. He wasn't.- Darth Sinister

Sure it does. What happens in-universe is what the director wants to happen. The story is what the filmmakers make of it until somebody else does something to contradict it, and nobody has.[/quote]

Yeah, it was in the tenth film.

The fact that the killer is nearly unstoppable alone is enough to suggest the presence of the supernatural.

Not really. People can be strong without supernatural.

You speak as if your viewpoint is fact, and it isn't. I guess I'm guilty of the same thing so I think it would be good to reiterate that these are merely how we prefer to look at the series. Neither of us is neccessarily right beyond a shadow of a doubt.

With that said there hasn't been anything in the films that suggests that Jason has some kind of genetic mutation that allows him to cheat death. Sure, he was born deformed, but lots of people are born deformed and can't do the things that Jason does.

On the other hand, plenty of things have happened in the films to demonstrate the presence of the supernatural, such as Jason repreatedly rising from the grave, possessing other people's bodies, getting dragged into Hell by demons and then getting out of Hell thanks to Freddy.

It has nothing to do with his appearence. A rare genetic disorder that makes it difficult to stay dead, doesn't require the supernatural. Can explain the numerous resurrections. Freddy didn't do nothing except tell him to wake up. The dirt demons were the result of Duke's foolish belief that hell was the reason Jason existed. Much less that he needs to go there. The dagger did summon demons, but all they did was just bury Jason underground until he woke up.

[Ron]

you really can't deny the supernatural elements that have become part of the Friday mytho...well you can, but then you just look silly:meh:

[Darth Reaper]

Yeah, it was in the tenth film.- Darth Sinister

Not really. They said that Jason can regenerate, they didn't say why he can regenerate. The supernatural is just as likely a reason as anything else.

Not really. People can be strong without supernatural.

But, not virtually unstoppable. At some point the blood loss alone would kill a person, no matter how strong they are.

It has nothing to do with his appearence. A rare genetic disorder that makes it difficult to stay dead, doesn't require the supernatural. Can explain the numerous resurrections. Freddy didn't do nothing except tell him to wake up. The dirt demons were the result of Duke's foolish belief that hell was the reason Jason existed. Much less that he needs to go there. The dagger did summon demons, but all they did was just bury Jason underground until he woke up.

The whole point of the beginning of FREDDY VS. JASON was that Jason was in Hell. That's where Freddy found him. And, he told Jason to wake up. If he hadn't done that, Jason would still be in Hell.

And, Duke's plan did work. If it hadn't I don't think the demons would have shown up at all. Jessica accidentally stabbed that sheriff and no demons appeared. But, when she stabbed Jason, they came to get him. If Duke's story about another Voorhees being able to strike Jason down with that dagger weren't true then either the demons wouldn't have shown up at all, or the demons would have come for the sheriff too, because in either case there would have been nothing special about Jessica stabbing Jason. It would have no more significance than when Jessica stabbed the sheriff. The fact that the demons came for Jason after Jessica stabbed him says that Duke's plan had merrit.

[Jigsaw]

You make good points about Jason's supernatural abilities. It seems very plausible to me that Jason's rage manifested itself, and the manifestation controls his body.

[Rich]

Well, then you dislike the whole series because that's the official explaination. Jason just happened to be a genetic freak. Not a ghost.

A genetic freak? Big Papa Voorhees!!!

Actually, there is no official explanation because none of the movies provided it. I think Jason is a supernatural creature we well, for being able to sustain to much damage and being superhumanly strong. I have always thought Jason drowned and somehow came back from the dead by some supernatural means. Maybe it was the death curse itself that brought Jason back after Mrs. Voorhees was killed.

[Darth Sinister]

There was no death curse. Just a drunk who was a little touched in the head.

[Darth Reaper]

There was no death curse. Just a drunk who was a little touched in the head.- Darth Sinister

Or, like they said in part 7, Jason is the curse, a restless spirit who haunts the Crystal Lake area and can never rest in peace because of the rage that burns within him.

[Darth Sinister]

That was to set the mood for the movie.

[driftingsun]

I consider parts I-IV (V) as separate entities than those that came after, the films that turned Jason into a zombie, and then into a zombie with powers of teleportation, and demonic possession. I like to remember Jason as he was in the early films, really fucking tough and pissed off, but more or less human, with some inexplicable non-supernatural disorder that made him seem nigh-invulnerable.

[Rich]

There was no death curse. Just a drunk who was a little touched in the head.

Oh...excuse me...So, they write a character into a movie that does not stop ranting about a death curse and people are doomed and so on and so forth. Then they bring him back, despite killing him, in the sequel and you think his lines have no significance to the story? I beg to differ.

I prefer to think of him as being similar to Eric Draven from THE CROW in that he was dead, then rose from the grave in his physical body

That is a damn good way to look at it.

The supernatural works just fine within the context of a fictional world.

No kidding. The two greatest horror stories ever told (Dracula, Frankenstein) were both supernatural.

And, no offence, but to me at least sometimes trying to wrap these things in sudo-science sounds even cornier than the supernatural.

You know what it is? Today, in the year 2008, people think in terms of science. They think it is more logical. In reality it is, but in horror fiction, the supernatural can be just as logical.

Besides, I like the FRIDAY THE 13TH series as a ghost story better than saying that Jason is some kind of genetic freak.

So do I. To me that is what it is. Even 2-4. I really like the Eric Draven analogy. That is how I think of Jason now. After his mother was killed, he came back to life and his body grew at a supernatural rate to the size he would have been in that time, and came back for revenge just like The Crow.

[Rick]

I like the idea of him being similar to the Crow as well. That's sort of the way I always thought of it, Jason was supernatural from the part 2 on having risen from the grave for vengance.

[Darth Sinister]

Oh...excuse me...So, they write a character into a movie that does not stop ranting about a death curse and people are doomed and so on and so forth. Then they bring him back, despite killing him, in the sequel and you think his lines have no significance to the story? I beg to differ.

The only significance in the first film is to build tension as people are made to wonder if the place is cursed or not. It's not. Just a deranged mother who couldn't deal with her son's accidental death. As Steve Christy said, people make a science out of coincidence. In this case, it was a cause and effect. The second film had no point on than to pay homage to the first film, something that Miner is known for. That doesn't make it cursed. Just a deranged mother whose son winds up taking over the family business.

I like the idea of him being similar to the Crow as well. That's sort of the way I always thought of it, Jason was supernatural from the part 2 on having risen from the grave for vengance.

The second film explains that Jason was thought to have been dead and was in reality, living in the woods this whole time without his mother knowing that he was still alive. That he hadn't really died or if he had, it was only for a short bit. And that he crawled out of the lake on the far side, before going off into the woods in a self-imposed exile.

[Rick]

Yah, I know that when something like that is said in a film it's the explanation.
However, I prefer the supernatural theory.
It makes the continuity and Jason's ability to take all of that punishment more believable if he's a supernatural creature.
I can justify getting around Ginny's explanation to myself since she says "what if Jason didn't drown ...."
That "what if" gives me a choice, the supernatural or the natural explanation.

[Darth Reaper]

Yah, I know that when something like that is said in a film it's the explanation.
However, I prefer the supernatural theory.
It makes the continuity and Jason's ability to take all of that punishment more believable if he's a supernatural creature.
I can justify getting around Ginny's explanation to myself since she says "what if Jason didn't drown ...."
That "what if" gives me a choice, the supernatural or the natural explanation.- Rick

The way I like to look at it is that what we hear in F13 part 2 is only what the characters think happened to Jason, not neccessarily what actually did happen to him. There's a difference. Perhaps after Pamela's death people started seeing signs that somebody else was out there. Then Alice dies, and people start to think that maybe Jason himself is out there following in his mother's footsteps. But, people can't come back from the dead, not in the real world, right? So, people start to wonder if Jason ever really died at all. Having Jason avoid drowning seems logical, but since this is a fictional story it's not neccessarily the truth. Jason really could come back from the grave, but some people don't accept that idea right away, so they come up with their own explanations.

[Jigsaw]

Everyone has their own interpretation as to what happened to Jason and whether or not he ever truly drowned or survived or whatnot.

[Darth Sinister]

The way I like to look at it is that what we hear in F13 part 2 is only what the characters think happened to Jason, not neccessarily what actually did happen to him. There's a difference. Perhaps after Pamela's death people started seeing signs that somebody else was out there. Then Alice dies, and people start to think that maybe Jason himself is out there following in his mother's footsteps. But, people can't come back from the dead, not in the real world, right? So, people start to wonder if Jason ever really died at all. Having Jason avoid drowning seems logical, but since this is a fictional story it's not neccessarily the truth. Jason really could come back from the grave, but some people don't accept that idea right away, so they come up with their own explanations.

It's not a case of having Jason avoid drowing. It's merely that Jason disappeared. They never found his body which indicates that he wasn't in the lake. What Paul said in his campfire tale and what Ginny theorized were merely examples of retconning the second film to fit with the first film. Retcons are where you change the facts established in the first film, in order to add something new to the story. In this case, Jason was dead as a doornail and Alice was so traumatized by what happened, that she imagined being attacked by Jason. In the second film, they had to retcon the first film's backstory in order to have Jason as the killer.

[Utellme]

I like to think Jason coming up and grabbing Alice is not a dream.And who's to say he was not up on land snooping around.I like to think that Ginny was correct . Either way it all works part 1 and 2 are good stuff.

[Darth Reaper]

It's not a case of having Jason avoid drowing. It's merely that Jason disappeared. They never found his body which indicates that he wasn't in the lake. What Paul said in his campfire tale and what Ginny theorized were merely examples of retconning the second film to fit with the first film. Retcons are where you change the facts established in the first film, in order to add something new to the story. In this case, Jason was dead as a doornail and Alice was so traumatized by what happened, that she imagined being attacked by Jason. In the second film, they had to retcon the first film's backstory in order to have Jason as the killer.- Darth Sinister

Fair enough. Within the context of the story, since they were never able to find Jason's body, and since Alice was killed after Pamela's death, people started to think that Jason never drown at all. But, again since this is a fictional story that's not necessarily what really happened, just what people thought happened.

I would argue that the retconned thing again (either intentionally or unintentionally) in part 6 by having Tommy trap Jason in Crystal Lake. They say in the movie that the only way to stop Jason is to return him to his original resting place, and that that place is Crystal Lake. And, when Tommy put Jason there and made it so that he couldn't leave he was indeed stopped. Granted, Megan speeded things up by breaking Jason's neck with that propeller blade, but in any case he didn't leave the lake again until the next movie. If Jason had suffered that injury on land or in any other body of water I don't think he would have been stopped. He'd already been hit with a shovel hard enough to break it, shot multiple times, had his head bashed repeatedly with a rock, and set on fire, and none of those things stopped him.

Like it or not the intention of the makers of part 6 was to say that Crystal Lake has the power to contain Jason, and that's what happened, not just in part 6 but in part 7 as well. At the end of the film the spirit of Tina's father (or whatever it was) pulls Jason under water and he doesn't come up again until the next film. It's not perfect evidence but it is evidence that once trapped in the lake Jason is rendered dormant. The ending of part 7 that JBC cut out is irrelivant because it was cut out. It isn't part of the film anymore, so it must be disregarded.

[Jigsaw]

I definitely got the impression from JL that Jason forever has a connection to the lake, and putting it in paranormal terms, it's very possible and even probable that Jason's drowning and subsequent rebirth of sorts have given the lake a power to contain and release him.

This excellent fan-made animated movie does a nice job of elaborating on this possible type of origin for Jason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94HQItH1Hc

[Darth Sinister]

Fair enough. Within the context of the story, since they were never able to find Jason's body, and since Alice was killed after Pamela's death, people started to think that Jason never drown at all. But, again since this is a fictional story that's not necessarily what really happened, just what people thought happened.

I would argue that the retconned thing again (either intentionally or unintentionally) in part 6 by having Tommy trap Jason in Crystal Lake. They say in the movie that the only way to stop Jason is to return him to his original resting place, and that that place is Crystal Lake. And, when Tommy put Jason there and made it so that he couldn't leave he was indeed stopped. Granted, Megan speeded things up by breaking Jason's neck with that propeller blade, but in any case he didn't leave the lake again until the next movie. If Jason had suffered that injury on land or in any other body of water I don't think he would have been stopped. He'd already been hit with a shovel hard enough to break it, shot multiple times, had his head bashed repeatedly with a rock, and set on fire, and none of those things stopped him.

Like it or not the intention of the makers of part 6 was to say that Crystal Lake has the power to contain Jason, and that's what happened, not just in part 6 but in part 7 as well. At the end of the film the spirit of Tina's father (or whatever it was) pulls Jason under water and he doesn't come up again until the next film. It's not perfect evidence but it is evidence that once trapped in the lake Jason is rendered dormant. The ending of part 7 that JBC cut out is irrelivant because it was cut out. It isn't part of the film anymore, so it must be disregarded.

However, as I've pointed out before, Tommy was assuming that the lake was meant to contain Jason. He was only contained because he was dead from his injuries. While McLaughlin was going for the supernatural in his approach, doesn't mean that inverse, his characters were right.

[Utellme]

I definitely got the impression from JL that Jason forever has a connection to the lake, and putting it in paranormal terms, it's very possible and even probable that Jason's drowning and subsequent rebirth of sorts have given the lake a power to contain and release him.

This excellent fan-made animated movie does a nice job of elaborating on this possible type of origin for Jason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94HQItH1Hc
I like that view of it sorta confirms what Ginny said in part 2.

[Rick]

That vid is how i always envisioned it, Jason coming back from the dead, out of the lake when his mother was killed and takes revenge.
I don't like the idea of the lake itself being supernatural, but I do like the idea that since it is where he originally died it is the only place he can rest in peace.

[Darth Reaper]

However, as I've pointed out before, Tommy was assuming that the lake was meant to contain Jason. He was only contained because he was dead from his injuries. While McLaughlin was going for the supernatural in his approach, doesn't mean that inverse, his characters were right.

Sure it means that they were right, because that's what happened at the end of the film. They trapped Jason in the lake and he didn't come out again because he was powerless. The director wouldn't have brought up that stuff about Jason's original resting place unless that's where he intended for the story to go. And, nobody has contradicted what happened in the story so far.

From another perspective one can argue the same thing about what Ginny and Paul were saying in part 2. The director may have had them say those things in the movie to retcon the first film, but that doesn't mean that inverse they were right.

[James M]

Many aspects of the Friday mythology are so vague or unexplained, that someone can think of many different explanations for everything, and each side of an argument will stick to what they want to think, no matter how logical the other side's arguments may be. We'll never see everyone agree, unless the writers of the old films decided to explain this stuff, but I doubt they had anything further in mind than what was on screen.

[Rich]

The second film explains that Jason was thought to have been dead and was in reality, living in the woods this whole time without his mother knowing that he was still alive

It never actually comes out and says that. Never once did the movie say that.

The shack that was built could have easily been only five years old. If Jason came back to life in 1979 and found scraps of material that was already years old in the old abandoned Camp Crystal Lake, and the structure went through five New Jersey winters, that would easily explain the shape the place it is in.

[Darth Sinister]

Sure it means that they were right, because that's what happened at the end of the film. They trapped Jason in the lake and he didn't come out again because he was powerless. The director wouldn't have brought up that stuff about Jason's original resting place unless that's where he intended for the story to go. And, nobody has contradicted what happened in the story so far.

Jason is stopped because he is chained up and was killed by the blade. Not because he's in the lake. He's stopped later on because he was drowned by Tina's father. It's stopping his heart that stops Jason. Not being in the lake.

It never actually comes out and says that. Never once did the movie say that.

Ginny and Paul tell us what happened, when they discuss Jason.

The shack that was built could have easily been only five years old. If Jason came back to life in 1979 and found scraps of material that was already years old in the old abandoned Camp Crystal Lake, and the structure went through five New Jersey winters, that would easily explain the shape the place it is in.

That shack could also have been there since the 40's. Jason did not come back from the dead at the end of the first film. That was a dream as we were told by Cunningham, Miller and Savini. It's still a dream even with the sequels.

[Rick]

Jason is stopped because he is chained up and was killed by the blade. Not because he's in the lake. He's stopped later on because he was drowned by Tina's father. It's stopping his heart that stops Jason. Not being in the lake.
I doubt the blade or the drowning stopped Jason's heart. If several shotgun blast to the chest, a large calibre bullet to the head and bashing his head with a rock didn't do it a blade to the neck certainly won't. Jason was a supernatural creature at that point. I also doubt he needed to breath at that point, he spent a long time under water at the end of 6 without drowning.

[Rich]

That was a dream as we were told by Cunningham, Miller and Savini

I know it was written as a dream, but you can look at it any way you want.

[Darth Sinister]

I doubt the blade or the drowning stopped Jason's heart. If several shotgun blast to the chest, a large calibre bullet to the head and bashing his head with a rock didn't do it a blade to the neck certainly won't. Jason was a supernatural creature at that point. I also doubt he needed to breath at that point, he spent a long time under water at the end of 6 without drowning.

Jason's heart was stopped by a machete to the shoulder, an ax to the head, a machete to the head and being sliced up, propeller blade to the neck, drowning, blown up, a knife to the chest causing him to be buried, severe blood loss and being shot in the head til it was almost completely gone.

Jason does need to breathe, as you see him breath and we see that he has blood in his body. Blood is needed to keep the heart pumping.

[Darth Reaper]

Quote:
However, as I've pointed out before, Tommy was assuming that the lake was meant to contain Jason. He was only contained because he was dead from his injuries. While McLaughlin was going for the supernatural in his approach, doesn't mean that inverse, his characters were right.- Darth Sinister

From another perspective one can argue the same thing about what Ginny and Paul were saying in part 2. The director may have had them say those things in the movie to retcon the first film, but that doesn't mean that inverse they were right.

You have yet to challenge this.

Jason's heart was stopped by a machete to the shoulder, an ax to the head, a machete to the head and being sliced up, propeller blade to the neck, drowning, blown up, a knife to the chest causing him to be buried, severe blood loss and being shot in the head til it was almost completely gone.

Jason does need to breathe, as you see him breath and we see that he has blood in his body. Blood is needed to keep the heart pumping. - Darth Sinister

A. Jason was clearly more powerful in part 6 than he was in 2-4. He was shot repeatedly, had his head bashed by a rock, and set on fire, and none of these things stopped him. At this point I don't think that propeller blade would stop him either. It may take a minute for him to recover, but he wouldn't stay down for long.

B. Jason wasn't just stabbed with a knife, he was stabbed with a mystical dagger by a blood relative, and the results were supernatural. Jessica also stabbed that sheriff with the dagger and nothing supernatural happened, he just died. So, the fact that she was stabbing Jason with it is significant.

And, it worked too. Demons came and dragged Jason's body underground, then they took his soul to Hell, and he stayed there until Freddy convinced him to "wake up."

C. As far as breathing goes, I tend to look at that as either a reflex action or an expression of emotion. Even though Jason is undead his instincts still tell him to breath so he does even though he doesn't need to. It's like the zombies from DAY OF THE DEAD. A scientist revealed that the zombies receive no nutrition from what they eat. I think it just sits there and rots inside of them. But, the most primitive, instinctive part of their brains are telling them to eat. They don't eat because they need to, they do it because their instincts tell them to.

Or, again, Jason does it to express emotion. When he wants to express frustration, anger, excitement, etc. he takes a breath to express those feelings.

D. As far as bleeding goes, vampires bleed, werewolves bleed, zombies bleed, but that doesn't always mean that stopping their hearts alone will do them in (sometimes, some of them don't even have beating hearts). You have to use their specific weaknesses against them. In this case, trapping Jason in the lake robs him of his power and leaves him dormant.

Come to think of it, vampires often do things that are similar to the living, like breathing and bleeding, but they're still undead.

[Darth Sinister]

You have yet to challenge this.

I just did. I've been doing that.


A. Jason was clearly more powerful in part 6 than he was in 2-4. He was shot repeatedly, had his head bashed by a rock, and set on fire, and none of these things stopped him. At this point I don't think that propeller blade would stop him either. It may take a minute for him to recover, but he wouldn't stay down for long.

Well it was long enough. Just as having a machete in his head stopped him for several years.

B. Jason wasn't just stabbed with a knife, he was stabbed with a mystical dagger by a blood relative, and the results were supernatural. Jessica also stabbed that sheriff with the dagger and nothing supernatural happened, he just died. So, the fact that she was stabbing Jason with it is significant.

All it did was put Jason under ground a few feet and as Freddy said, he was just sleeping. Nothing more to it than that.

And, it worked too. Demons came and dragged Jason's body underground, then they took his soul to Hell, and he stayed there until Freddy convinced him to "wake up."

He was just sleeping because he brain doesn't know better.

C. As far as breathing goes, I tend to look at that as either a reflex action or an expression of emotion. Even though Jason is undead his instincts still tell him to breath so he does even though he doesn't need to. It's like the zombies from DAY OF THE DEAD. A scientist revealed that the zombies receive no nutrition from what they eat. I think it just sits there and rots inside of them. But, the most primitive, instinctive part of their brains are telling them to eat. They don't eat because they need to, they do it because their instincts tell them to.

Or, again, Jason does it to express emotion. When he wants to express frustration, anger, excitement, etc. he takes a breath to express those feelings.

Or he really does need to breath. Jason isn't a zombie. He looks like one, but he's not.

D. As far as bleeding goes, vampires bleed, werewolves bleed, zombies bleed, but that doesn't always mean that stopping their hearts alone will do them in (sometimes, some of them don't even have beating hearts). You have to use their specific weaknesses against them. In this case, trapping Jason in the lake robs him of his power and leaves him dormant.

Horse shit as we see Jason wandering around in the water and he isn't stopped. Trapping him doesn't stop him. Both times he's stopped in the lake it was external forces that stopped him. Not the lake itself.

[Rick]

Jason doesn't need to breath in 6, at the end he is down there pretty long before jumping into the boat to attack Tommy a couple times, and when the chain is around his neck he grabs Tommy's boot to pull him down with him and chokes him, then lets him drift to the surface.
If he needed to breath he would have probably tried to free himself from the chain before he went after Tommy or right after he let his body go. Not only does he not try to free himself, he just floats there until Megan jusps in to try and give Tommy CPR and Jason tries to pull her down as well.
I think this demonstrates pretty clearly that breathing isn't a necessity.

And to the propeller killing him, I just watched the end and it didn't kill him.
The next morning we see the lake and then cut to a scene of Jason still trapped down there (even though it'd be pretty easy for him to get that chain off his neck) we see Jason's gloved hand close and then cut to the close up of his staring eye, the lid moving as though he's watching the camera, still alive and watching but apparently unable to free himself from the chain that was only slipped over his neck.

[Darth Reaper]

I just did. I've been doing that.- Darth Sinister

You've offered nothing that convinces me to accept what Jinny and Paul said over what anybody else has said or done later on in the series. Why should their words be treated as the gospel truth and not anything that's happened afterwards?

Well it was long enough. Just as having a machete in his head stopped him for several years.

The problem is that Jason had already been repeatedly shot and had his head battered with a rock. If those things couldn't stop his heart, I can't believe that that propeller blade could. If Jason had been shot repeatedly in parts 2-4, at the very least he would have stayed down longer (probably until the next sequel). Here he either doesn't fall down at all or he just gets back up again like nothing had happened.

All it did was put Jason under ground a few feet and as Freddy said, he was just sleeping. Nothing more to it than that.

He was just sleeping because he brain doesn't know better.

Freddy clearly stated that he found Jason in the bowels of Hell ("I had to search the bowels of Hell, but I found someone...."), so clearly his soul had been taken to Hell.

Horse shit as we see Jason wandering around in the water and he isn't stopped. Trapping him doesn't stop him. Both times he's stopped in the lake it was external forces that stopped him. Not the lake itself.

As I've said numerous times before, Jason can come and go from the lake as he pleases as long as there's nothing stopping him from doing so. Prevent him from leaving the lake and he loses his power.

[Darth Sinister]

Jason doesn't need to breath in 6, at the end he is down there pretty long before jumping into the boat to attack Tommy a couple times, and when the chain is around his neck he grabs Tommy's boot to pull him down with him and chokes him, then lets him drift to the surface.
If he needed to breath he would have probably tried to free himself from the chain before he went after Tommy or right after he let his body go. Not only does he not try to free himself, he just floats there until Megan jusps in to try and give Tommy CPR and Jason tries to pull her down as well.
I think this demonstrates pretty clearly that breathing isn't a necessity.

We don't know if Jason wasn't trying to break his chain when he saw Megan coming. Also, people can hold their breath for several minutes while underwater.

And to the propeller killing him, I just watched the end and it didn't kill him.
The next morning we see the lake and then cut to a scene of Jason still trapped down there (even though it'd be pretty easy for him to get that chain off his neck) we see Jason's gloved hand close and then cut to the close up of his staring eye, the lid moving as though he's watching the camera, still alive and watching but apparently unable to free himself from the chain that was only slipped over his neck.

That was a last minute thing to the audience to let us know that there would be a seventh film. The same way Tommy opening his eyes while hugging Trish left the door open for a fifth film. The same way that Alice's dream unintentionally left the door open for a second film. And Freddy grabbing Jason's mask set up FvsJ.

You've offered nothing that convinces me to accept what Jinny and Paul said over what anybody else has said or done later on in the series. Why should their words be treated as the gospel truth and not anything that's happened afterwards?

Because their words are backed up by what we see in the film. Only one film has said that Jason was still in the lake, but unfortunately, we cannot take that at face value because the director/writer fucked up. All the other films sync up. Each film, except for the eighth film matches up to the continuity. Jason had a deformity, was thought to have drowned, his mother was killed after going on a rampage and he's been killing ever since. Only "Jason Takes Manhatten" contradicts everything, which shows how unreliable the film is. It says that Jason was a normal boy who drowned and while underwater, became deformed and then came out of the lake to grow into an adult and then start killing. It contradicted by the first seven films and by the three films that proceeded it.

The problem is that Jason had already been repeatedly shot and had his head battered with a rock. If those things couldn't stop his heart, I can't believe that that propeller blade could. If Jason had been shot repeatedly in parts 2-4, at the very least he would have stayed down longer (probably until the next sequel). Here he either doesn't fall down at all or he just gets back up again like nothing had happened.

People can be shot and not die from the injuries.

Freddy clearly stated that he found Jason in the bowels of Hell ("I had to search the bowels of Hell, but I found someone...."), so clearly his soul had been taken to Hell.

Soul in hell is different from body in hell. Also, hell has different meanings. To Freddy, hell is the state of being he is in at the start of the film. His inability to invade the nightmare of the people of Springwood. Except for Jason, he has been unable to do anything. For Jason, hell is his dream world where he kills repeatedly.


As I've said numerous times before, Jason can come and go from the lake as he pleases as long as there's nothing stopping him from doing so. Prevent him from leaving the lake and he loses his power.

And as I've said, a propeller blade and drowning will do it.

[Rick]

Jason was trapped under the water way longer then "a few minutes".
If he needed air to breath he could not have lasted that long.
The end firmly establishes that Jason is alive.

[Darth Reaper]

People can be shot and not die from the injuries.- Darth Sinister

But, they generally don't just get up again like nothing happened. Jason was riddled with bullets. They were litterally going right through his body. And, he was shot repeatedly with a shotgun. If that didn't stop him, a propeller blade to the neck won't. He didn't even bleed until he was hit with the blade.

Because their words are backed up by what we see in the film. Only one film has said that Jason was still in the lake, but unfortunately, we cannot take that at face value because the director/writer fucked up. All the other films sync up. Each film, except for the eighth film matches up to the continuity. Jason had a deformity, was thought to have drowned, his mother was killed after going on a rampage and he's been killing ever since. Only "Jason Takes Manhatten" contradicts everything, which shows how unreliable the film is. It says that Jason was a normal boy who drowned and while underwater, became deformed and then came out of the lake to grow into an adult and then start killing. It contradicted by the first seven films and by the three films that proceeded it.

I'm still not convinced of this. In Part 6 Tommy traps Jason in the lake and he stays there until the next movie. This tells me that he was right about Crystal Lake being Jason's original resting place. Megan using the propeller blade on Jason just speeded along his debilitation. The trauma caused him to go dormant faster.

And, like Rick pointed out the chain was only loosely wrapped around Jason's neck. He could have easily slipped out of it unless something was stopping him, like his power fading.

Soul in hell is different from body in hell.

Bodies aren't taken to Hell, souls are. The bodies remain here on Earth to rot.

[Darth Sinister]

Jason was trapped under the water way longer then "a few minutes".
If he needed air to breath he could not have lasted that long.
The end firmly establishes that Jason is alive.

We don't know how long Jason was under water when he struggled with Tommy and then we Megan.

But, they generally don't just get up again like nothing happened. Jason was riddled with bullets. They were litterally going right through his body. And, he was shot repeatedly with a shotgun. If that didn't stop him, a propeller blade to the neck won't. He didn't even bleed until he was hit with the blade.

The gunshots were not enough to stop his heart. The propeller blade was. He stops fighting the minute it's cut through his neck and the blade stops. He goes slack. It isn't that all of a sudden the lake stops him. He's suffered a traumatic enough injury to stop his heart.

I'm still not convinced of this. In Part 6 Tommy traps Jason in the lake and he stays there until the next movie. This tells me that he was right about Crystal Lake being Jason's original resting place. Megan using the propeller blade on Jason just speeded along his debilitation. The trauma caused him to go dormant faster.

At the end of the fourth film, Jason was dead and not put in the lake. He stayed in his grave until brought up and his heart was restarted by the lightning. All this tells me is that his heart can be stopped by any means, not being held in the lake. The trauma has to be as such that his heart will stop until something starts it again.

And, like Rick pointed out the chain was only loosely wrapped around Jason's neck. He could have easily slipped out of it unless something was stopping him, like his power fading.

It only looks loose so as not to choke CJ Graham and his stunt double. The same way the noose in the third film was loose so as not to kill Richard Brooker's double. The only time it was ever really tight was in the seventh film and that was Kane Hodder taking a chance by having it done.

[Autobotsdie]

I always figured Jason killed for the same reason his mother killed because the consolers let him drown which he really didn't.

[Ron]

it's hard for me to think of any other reasons for Jason killing other than his mother.

[Abraxas]

"They say in the movie that the only way to stop Jason is to return him to his original resting place, and that that place is Crystal Lake."

This is a very valid point, and it fit with what is suggested. Clearly there is something about the lake which influences and restricts Jasons activities. Now is it the lake itself, or the old idea which the director of part 6 used, that one must be returned to thier original resting place, this is connected with the idea of a premature death at the hands of a murderer, a death curse etc. The real reason for this of course was the directors interest in old hammer films and the monster/ supernatural horror movie classics of yesteryear.

Two point first "how I veiw it anyway"
1. Any facts concerning a character, his motivatins, backstory etc should take present over any other factor, interpretative or otherwise. Case in point, the first Friday plainly states that Jason drowned at age 11.
Proof:
1. Jason (as a dream) jumps out of the water to attack Alice.
2. The film makers and the screenwriter state that Jason drowned, this of course being the whole premise of the film

2. Time and time again throughout the series Jason is linked with elemental, if not supernatural, forces

3. It is obvious that the lake or the surrounding area (going back to the fisrt point) has some influence on Jason. Someone tried to deny this theory by saying that Jason was buried and was not put in the lake, and that he did not rise, but to me this indicates that even if Jason is buried anywhere near the lake (or the place where he was killed, which could be anywhere that is close to the lake, possibly the origin of the death curse idea), his power can be controlled, at least for a while.

He is brought back to life, once again by elemental, if not supernatural means i.e lightening, in part 7 he is brought back by electricity, not elemental per se, but more in the context of recharging the power bestowed upon him by the lightening.

4. The last point which suggests an influence upon Jason, in relation to the water of Camp Crystal Lake, is how many times the movies in the series end with a shot of the lake. This of course bringing to mind what Alice said at the end of the first film.
...."Then he's still there"

[Rich]

But returning him to his original resting place did not stop him after all because there were five movies made after it.

[Lammert]

Tommy's way to 'kill' him was pretty silly.... same goes for the lame lame ending of TNB.

[Darth Reaper]

But returning him to his original resting place did not stop him after all because there were five movies made after it.- Rich

Sure it did. Once Jason was trapped in the lake he never left by his own power. By all accounts, if Tina hadn't accidentally ressurected him, he would have stayed in the lake indefinately. The plan worked just fine, it's just that somebody else screwed it up.

Tommy's way to 'kill' him was pretty silly- Lammert

Considering that we're dealing with supernatural forces here, Tommy's plan doesn't seem that silly at all, no sillier than needing a wooden stake to kill a vampire or a silver bullet to kill a werewolf.

[Jigsaw]

Sure it did. Once Jason was trapped in the lake he never left by his own power. By all accounts, if Tina hadn't accidentally ressurected him, he would have stayed in the lake indefinately. The plan worked just fine, it's just that somebody else screwed it up.


Jason sure seemed to be at rest until Tina disturbed it. Looking at it through a spiritual prism, it makes sense that Jason's spirit can't rest until he's returned to his original resting place, because his spirit feeds on the need to get revenge against his mother's killer and he already did, but his vengeance has consumed him to the point where to actually stop him, he needs to be at his original death site to be put to rest.

[Autobotsdie]

So how long was Jason under water before Tina resurected him?

[The Dream Master]

Tommy's plan did fuck-all to stop Jason. If I recall the events correctly, Jason was still ticking and trying to kill Tommy while he was in the lake. A big fuckin' rock and chain is what kept Jason at bay, not the lake itself, at least that's how I interpret the events. Also, the propeller blade that damn-near severs his neck was a factor too.
ADDED:
Besides, do you really trust Tommy? What makes him an expert? The fact that he happened to kill Jason in the first place? Personally, I'm not likely to trust a dude that just got out of a mental institution and who's quoting stuff from some random occult book.

[Utellme]

So how long was Jason under water before Tina resurected him?
By real life years 2.

By movie years who knows i never really got into the whole timeline thing but im sure theres a place you can check it out.

[Jigsaw]

Besides, do you really trust Tommy? What makes him an expert? The fact that he happened to kill Jason in the first place? Personally, I'm not likely to trust a dude that just got out of a mental institution and who's quoting stuff from some random occult book.


I always liked that about Tommy in JL, how he became so off-the-handle and became almost like Crazy Ralph in a way.

[The Dream Master]

By real life years 2.

By movie years who knows i never really got into the whole timeline thing but im sure theres a place you can check it out.

This is one of those debates that comes up from time to time. The film clearly shows that Jason is under the lake when Tina accidentally kills her dad, so I guess the flick flashes ahead about...4 years, I guess. So I guess Jason had been there for about 5 years or so.

[Jigsaw]

I always assumed the events of JL occured around July 1990, and the events of TNB around the Spring of 1993.

[The Dream Master]

Yeah. There's also the fact that someone involved with Part 7 (JCB, maybe) mentioned that it's all supposed to take place ten years after Jason Lives, but I don't know about that.

[Jigsaw]

I doubt TNB takes place a decade after JL, considering that JL at most took place around the early 1990s and TNB probably not long after. There's also the fashion styles and trends at the times to consider and the music that was popular at the time, and by the late '90s and early 2000s, those fashion styles and music were very out-of-date and lost their popularity among the public.

[The Dream Master]

Well, if you extend that logic, then The New Blood probably couldn't take place in the early 90s either because the flick is so 80s that it's ridiculous.

The fact is, the timeline (in terms of years) is all sorts of fucked. All we know for sure is that part 1 takes place in '79, with 2-4 taking place in '84. After that, it's a guessing game depending upon how old you think Tommy is supposed to be.

[Jigsaw]

I always believed the original F13 took place in 1980 and that the 1979 death date on Pamela's tombstone was a simple misprint. TNB is definitely a flick that bleeds '80s cheesiness, but around the very early 1990s, a lot of '80s fads and trends went out of style. We could say in a rural community like Crystal Lake that isn't always catching up on the times, that those trends were clinging to their last breaths of popularity among the public during the events of TNB.

[Natman]

The New Blood is set at least ten years after Jason Lives, given that in the prologue (which itself is set after Jason Lives) she's about seven years old, and in the rest of the film about seventeen.

[Jigsaw]

I always assumed the beginning of TNB with the child Tina was just going backwards in time prior to Jason's post-TFC rampages. I think Jason seen at the beginning of TNB was just to remind the audience what happened to him since last time. Kind of like how Saw IV constantly manipulated the viewer with time, with Jigsaw's autopsy at the beginning being the ending of the movie, and most of the movie running in sync with Saw III as opposed to afterwards.

[James M]

But returning him to his original resting place did not stop him after all because there were five movies made after it.

I guess the way Tina accidentally brought him back to life in Part VII negated what Tommy did. Although I say almost having his neck severed is what really stopped him in VI.

[Lammert]

I agree with James... I never believed Tommy's words.

[The New Blood]

Jason's just pissed off because he can't get any pussy. Thats the only problem.

[Lammert]

The F13 timeline is always screwed.... this started with Part 5.

Friday the 13th happened in 1979 (Mrs.Voorhees tombstone)
Parts 2, 3 and The Final Chapter were 5 years later spread over a week or so, making the year 1984.
Let's say Tommy was 10 in TFC, then in Part V he was 18, I don't believe he was younger. Some timelines said he was 15, wich is absurd. So add 8 years to TFC then Part V would take place in 1992!
During the events of Jason Lives Tommy is released from the mental hospital, let's say this is about a year later. 1993.
Then the beginning of The New Blood, it could be the same year. 1993.
Tina is about 7 years old like most people said, adding 10 years to that. 2003! So TNB would take place in 2003. There are also theories that the events with 7year old Tina happened before Jason Lives, remember the whole scene of her dad dying is only a dream. Perhaps she already had somekind of connection with Jason and the lake.

[Darth Sinister]

Tommy is age 12 according to his file in "A New Beginning". Meaning he was 12 in "The Final Chapter". No date is given for the fifth film, but I would guess that it would be four or five years later. Four years would be 1988 and five would be 89. John Shepard could pass for 15 or 16. Thom Matthews was much older than he was playing, but that doesn't stop Hollywood from casting older actors in younger roles. So Tommy could be 18 in "Jason Lives". Some 80's style did carry over into the early 90's. Not much, but some. The trouble is that no one knew what the fashion would be in the 90's, which is why you have to take the last two Paramount films with a huge grain of salt in terms of appearence.