Punisher: War Zone

[hack slash]

And the New Punisher is...
Source: Latino Review July 21, 2007


Ray Stevenson! Latino Review is reporting that the star of HBO's "Rome" has landed the title role in the new Lexi Alexander-directed Punisher movie. The comic book character has previously been played by Dolph Lundgren in the 1989 movie and by Thomas Jane more recently in the 2004 film helmed by Jonathan Hensleigh. Stevenson can next be seen in Screen Gems' horror actioner Outpost.

[CanadianFonzie]

so no Tom Jane? too bad, I've been looking so forward to hearing when they'd finally make this movie after loving the last one, but I was hoping, and I would have figured Tom Jane would be the Punisher again, he did a good job, but no one will ever look the part better than Dolph did

[hack slash]

so no Tom Jane? too bad, I've been looking so forward to hearing when they'd finally make this movie after loving the last one, but I was hoping, and I would have figured Tom Jane would be the Punisher again, he did a good job, but no one will ever look the part better than Dolph did

I think Tom Jane decided not to do it after he read the script for it

[Titan]

The first with Thomas Jane was great! To bad he opted out of this one. Kinda makes me wonder if it will be any good if he decided not to do it after reading the script.

[CanadianFonzie]

why not bring back Dolph, he's still making action movies

[On a Pale Horse]

Has a Punisher look to him..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/faces/images/ray_stevenson.jpg

[CanadianFonzie]

oh yah he actually does...but can he act it is now the question

[DavidDunn]

Aw, really? No Tom Jane? That sucks. He made an awesome Frank Castle, in my opinion. Did he really turn it down after reading the script? I wonder if Jigsaw is still set to be the villain. There was some speculation on that over at CountingDown.com. Dolph Lundgren would probably come back to the role, if he was called upon. I mean after all, what else is he into these days? He's looking pretty old nowadays, but if Stallone can return back to playing Rocky and Rambo in his sixties, Dolph could make a comeback too.

[CanadianFonzie]

and isn't Dolph only in his 50's

I see Jigsaw being the villian, the Punisher didn't have THAT many of his own villians, so Jigsaw seems like the most logical choice

[Jack Bauer]

I wonder if they're going to have to chance Jigsaw's name since there's another Jigsaw in the Lion's Gate family. I would be very pissed if they did that.

[Sketch Sanchez]

It isnt like TOm Jane was the worlds greatest actor or anything but the fact that this dude gave a shit about this character and this franchise and has now left for whatever reasons is really shitty and deadens my enthusiasm for it.

[Violent VictiM]

Tom Jane was the ill Punisher. Not seeing him in the lead role definitely turns me off to the sequel. The first movie was so bad ass, and I feel it was Tom Jane who brought it to that level. It wasn't so much his acting, that was decent, there was just something so kick ass about him. :confused:

[Just Jeans]

SyFy Portal (http://www.syfyportal.com/news423990.html) is reporting on a new press release with information about The Punisher 2.

It’s official, there is a new Punisher wearing the skull.

A press release from Lionsgate Studios confirmed that “Punisher 2” will star Ray Stevenson (Titus Pullo in HBO’s “Rome”) and be directed by Oscar nominee Lexi Alexander (“Johnny Flynton”). Shooting starts in Montreal this October.

Lionsgate announced a four-year, $400 million filmed entertainment slate financing agreement with Societe generale de financement du Quebec, "the provincial government's investment arm that has a $2 billion investment portfolio." They said the overall transaction will encompass a broad range of different Lionsgate programming and feature film production in Quebec, including "Punisher 2."

Some “Punisher” fans have expressed concerns that the sequel will fail to live up to the expectations created by the first film.

Thomas Jane, who played Frank Castle in the first film, left the project last May. He had originally told fans in his blog that it was painful not to return to the franchise.

"I can't tell you how completely broken up I am about it… Punisher fans are already fighting an uphill battle as it is," Jane wrote at the time. "And I've always felt a responsibility to fight that fight for them and with them so that Frank Castle gets the treatment he deserves."
ADDED:
It isnt like TOm Jane was the worlds greatest actor or anything but the fact that this dude gave a shit about this character and this franchise and has now left for whatever reasons...

His reasons for leaving are no secret -- he thought the script was horse shit.

And I think he's a perfectly capable actor. He's no DeNiro or Pacino, but then no one is.

[The Dark Vampire]

True and he went though a lot of work for Punisher 2 he worked out and read and watched whatever fans asked him to get the fell of the character and do him justice as he really wanted to get the real Frank Castle on screen but thought that the script was so bad that it would be an insult to Frank Castle and The Punisher fans.

The fact he walked away after wanting it so much and going though all that preparation says something about just how bad it must of been.

I will watch it but only so i don't ruin my never missed a comic book (superhero) movie at the cinema since Batman Forever run (Ok I missed Catwoman but come on can you blame me)

[hack slash]

They should stick with Punisher:War Journal
--------------------------------------------------
Punisher 2 Working Title and Start Date
Source: Diva August 9, 2007


Superhero Hype! has learned that the working title for Lionsgate and Marvel Studios' new Punisher film is The Punisher: Welcome Back Frank:side:. Shooting is set to start in Montreal late September.

To be directed by Lexi Alexander (Hooligans) and starring Ray Stevenson (HBO's "Rome") as Frank Castle/The Punisher, the action-thriller was written by Nick Santora, Kurt Sutter, Matt Holloway and Art Marcum.

The film will be set in New York, where Frank Castle runs up against a mobster.

[Just Jeans]

Best. Worst. Title. Ever. :hypno:

I hope it sticks. With the reports about how bad the script sucks, it's only fair the shitty title sticks.

[The Dream Master]

That was the title of one of Ennis's early arcs, I believe. It might have been the first, actually.

[Just Jeans]

As a comic arc, I think the name would work fine. But as a film? Corny, man. Super corny.

[The Dream Master]

Yeah, I'm not digging it very much, either. War Journal would have been much better.

[The Dark Vampire]

Yeah the title sucks if they wanted something like that why not
Punisher 2-The Return Of Frank Castle granted that isn't great or even good but it's better than Frank's Back it's sounds like the title to some sucky ass horror sequel

[Darth Sinister]

It was indeed Garth Ennis' first arc when he came onboard. The story picked up after Frank's resurrection from the failed Marvel Knights era. I thought that elements of "Welcome Back, Frank" were used in the first film.

[Jack Bauer]

Maybe the title means please welcome back the dark humored and more violent Punisher.

Also they get anyone to play Russo yet.

[hack slash]

Punisher Sequel Casting Details?
Source: Advanced Dark August 14, 2007


According to unofficial Ray Stevenson site Ray-Stevenson.com, the following roles are being cast for The Punisher: Welcome Back Frank:

The remaining lead characters include the main villain Billy Russo/Jigsaw, LBJ/Looney Bin Jim (Jigsaw's brother), Nicky Donatelli (undercover FBI agent serving as Jigsaw's right hand man), his wife Angela Donatelli, FBI agent Luke MacDonald, Det. Martin Soap, and Microchip (The Punisher's armorer).

The Lionsgate release will be directed by Lexi Alexander

[Jack Bauer]

Microchip? Sweet! Maybe we'll see the Battle Van.

[Burn]

They name it after an Ennis arc, yet put in Microchip? Okay...

I really liked the Jane one, but I'm not feeling the love for this at all. Time will tell, I guess, but I'm not optimistic.

[Lance Lives]

Welcome Back Frank the arc is fuckin' awesome. But I didn't even like the Jane movie so if this one isn't good enough for his tastes, I doubt I'll like it too much.

[hack slash]

AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!, or something like that:D
---------------------------------------------------------
The Punisher Enters War Zone
Source: Advanced Dark August 28, 2007


Lionsgate has a new title for Lexi Alexander's Punisher movie starring Ray Stevenson -- Punisher: War Zone. The new film will be set in New York, where Frank Castle (Stevenson) runs up against a mobster.

The project will mark the third screen incarnation for "The Punisher," which originated in a comic book about Castle, a Marine-turned-vigilante who is driven by a desire to avenge the murder of his family after they witness a gangland killing.

The property was turned into a 1989 film that starred Dolph Lundgren and then into a 2004 pic that starred Thomas Jane.

[Just Jeans]

'Punisher' Role Yanked From Actor (http://www.syfyportal.com/news424168.html)

It looks like the casting woes for "Punisher 2: War Zone" are not limited to actors simply deciding to drop out.

Lionsgate offered, and then withdrew, its offer to actor Paddy Considine, best known for his role in "The Bourne Ultimatum," to take on the role of villain Jigsaw.

"The original choice for Jigsaw dropped out, then they offered it to me," said Considine, according to Coming Soon. "I'm very dubious because the other films looked shite. Then whoever is responsible said that their original choice has decided to do it, therefore pulling my offer."

Who the original choice was hasn't been reported, but apparently they will be the new Jigsaw whenever Lionsgate gets around to reporting it.

The film has undergone a number of changes since its 2004 film. The setting has changed from Tampa, Fla., to New York City. Thomas Jane chose not to return in the title role citing script issues, and was replaced by "Rome" actor Ray Stevenson. And even director Jonathan Hensleigh is gone, replaced by virtual unknown Lexi Alexander.
Click here to find out more!

Considine doesn't seem to be too broken up about losing the part.

"The only blessing was that I didn't waste an hour of my life reading the script," he said. "That be the way of the film world."

No release date has been set for "Punisher: War Zone," but it's expected to come out sometime in 2008. It was written by Matt Holloway, Arthur Marcum ("Shadow of Fear"), Nick Santora ("Prison Break") and Kurt Sutter ("The Shield").

[Erik]

I'm just curious about who the first choice was.

[hack slash]

Jigsaw and Microchip casting
------------------------------------------

Two More Join Punisher: War Zone
Source: The Hollywood Reporter September 25, 2007


Dominic West (300, "The Wire") and Wayne Knight (Newman on "Seinfeld") have joined Lionsgate and Marvel Studios' Punisher: War Zone, the action-thriller based on the Marvel Comics character being directed by Lexi Alexander.

Ray Stevenson already is on board to portray the Marvel vigilante. Previously cast were Dash Mihok as Detective Martin Soap, Colin Salmon as Agent Paul Budiansky and Doug Hutchinson as Loony Bin Jim.

West is in talks to play the Punisher's archenemy known as Jigsaw, a mob assassin whose face was torn to shreds and stitched back together like a jigsaw puzzle.

Knight is in negotiations to play Microchip, the Punisher's armorer and confident — the man who supplies him with his stockpile of weapons and one of the few people who knows the Punisher's true identity.

Gale Anne Hurd and Marvel's Kevin Feige are producing, and Avi Arad is executive producing. Shooting is scheduled to begin in October in Montreal.

[killaG]

I hope this movie is good. All these rumors about the script have me thinking it will be crap.

[Sketch Sanchez]

Jigsaw and Microchip casting
------------------------------------------

Two More Join Punisher: War Zone
Source: The Hollywood Reporter September 25, 2007


Dominic West (300, "The Wire") and Wayne Knight (Newman on "Seinfeld") have joined Lionsgate and Marvel Studios' Punisher: War Zone, the action-thriller based on the Marvel Comics character being directed by Lexi Alexander.

Ray Stevenson already is on board to portray the Marvel vigilante. Previously cast were Dash Mihok as Detective Martin Soap, Colin Salmon as Agent Paul Budiansky and Doug Hutchinson as Loony Bin Jim.

West is in talks to play the Punisher's archenemy known as Jigsaw, a mob assassin whose face was torn to shreds and stitched back together like a jigsaw puzzle.

Knight is in negotiations to play Microchip, the Punisher's armorer and confident — the man who supplies him with his stockpile of weapons and one of the few people who knows the Punisher's true identity.
Gale Anne Hurd and Marvel's Kevin Feige are producing, and Avi Arad is executive producing. Shooting is scheduled to begin in October in Montreal.

I find that so weird because everyone and their mothers know that Frank Castle is the Punisher, they just cant do a damn thing about it (or dont want to, in the case of New Yorks Finest)

[Cody]

Release date set (http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=6553)

Lionsgate has set a September 12, 2008 release date for the Lexi Alexander-directed Punisher: War Zone, starring Ray Stevenson, Dominic West, Doug Hutchinson, Colin Salmon, Wayne Knight, Dash Mihok and Julie Benz.

In the action-thriller, ruthless vigilante-hero Frank Castle sets his sights on overeager mob boss Billy Russoti. After Russoti is left horribly disfigured by Castle, he sets out for vengeance under his new alias: Jigsaw. With the "Punisher Task Force" hot on his trail and the FBI unable to take Jigsaw in, Frank must stand up to the formidable army that Jigsaw has recruited before more of his evil deeds go unpunished.

Matt Holloway, Art Marcum, Nick Santora, Kurt Sutter and Alexander wrote the script.

[Geddy Peart]

While the movie looks to have a decent cast, it has SUCK written all over it.

[Joe Strummer]

Could be alright, but I'm used to Jane as the Punsiher. I'm really dissapointed that he won't be returning as Castle. It was just getting started after the first one ended. So much potential, but the shitty writers had to fuck everything up.

[Cody]

Picture (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=40031) of The Punisher whilst punishing.

[The Dream Master]

He looks alot more like the Punisher from the current War Journal comic (whereas Jane looked more like Ennis's Punisher).

[Spade]

Picture (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=40031) of The Punisher whilst punishing.

That looks like Steven Seagal :lmao:.

[The Dream Master]

That looks like Steven Seagal :lmao:.

Holy shit! I can't believe I didn't notice that. :lol:

[nottidelterrore]

That looks like Steven Seagal :lmao:.

Wow that does look like Seagal. Haha!

I'm a bit disappointed that Jane isn't returning but I will still see this since I love The Punisher. I love both versions, the 1989 version with Dolph Lundgren & the 2004 with Tom Jane. The 2004 version is one of the best action movies from this decade.

[Geddy Peart]

This picture has helped to regain some of my interest, but I'm still baffled at why they haven't gotten this character 100% right on film yet. There are other movies that are more Punisher than The Punisher films themselves.

[Cody]

It's only a few images at the moment, but here is the offical site (http://www.punishermovie.com/).

[Jack Bauer]

That is just a badass opening for the website with Frank and the two guns and that look on his face.

[Deathscythe]

Wow that does look like Seagal. Haha!

I'm a bit disappointed that Jane isn't returning but I will still see this since I love The Punisher. I love both versions, the 1989 version with Dolph Lundgren & the 2004 with Tom Jane. The 2004 version is one of the best action movies from this decade.

Bank on it, 2008 Seagal comeback

Under Siege 3 > Die Hard 4/Rambo 4.

[Cody]

Movie has been bounced back (http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=7025) to my birthday.

Superhero Hype! has learned that Lionsgate has pushed back Punisher: War Zone three months - from September 12 to December 5.

[Cody]

Teaser poster (http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/gallery/default.asp?gallery=punisherwarzone_filmtv)

[Jack Bauer]

Oh, it is coming out in December. I thought it was out next year or something. But it looks badass, hope to see photos of Billy "Jigsaw" Russoti and his brother soon as well as more pics of Frank as well.

[Psychoticninja]

December 5th is very far away..... wow..... Oh well, i guess it might be worth the wait

[hack slash]

The trailer is on Superherohype.com it looks......ok

http://www.superherohype.com/news/punishernews.php?id=7337

[El Rooto]

Never saw the '04 movie but that looks pretty cool.

[nottidelterrore]

I'm kind of "meh" towards this. I will check it out though. I doubt it'll be better than the '04 version & the masterpiece of ridiculous action cinema that is know as the 1989 version starring Dolph Lundgren.

[CanadianFonzie]

judging by that trailer, I prefer the 2004 movie, the 2004 one looked like a Marvel movie, this just looks like your basic plot-lacking action movie (although of course I'm hoping that's just the trailer giving the wrong impression)

...But are they actually going to go through the whole life story again? and once again change how his family was killed?

[Cody]

I can dig it.

...But are they actually going to go through the whole life story again? and once again change how his family was killed?

I think there are flashbacks to it and that, yeah, it'll be different than what was in the '04 movie.

[TheShowstoppa]

Ew. That movie has SUCK-ASS written all over it. Ray Stevenson doesn't look like the Punisher and his voice is HORRIBLE!

That and the fact that the movie just looks horrible. Tom Jane - Where are you?! Please steal this movie away and make it better!!!!

I won't go see this in theaters. Period.

[Zarcone]

i'll most likely see it just because im a punisher fan.... but Jane should've done this, bad script or not

[Sean [The Wildcard]]

Wow...this just looks BAD.

I didn't get a Punisher vibe from it at all. I really got a terrible action DTV film vibe from it to be honest.

I think even it Thomas Jane were to have done this...it still may have looked bad.

I'm not sure...but damn....this movie looks like a piece of shit.

[SoulOnFire]

I've been seeing a lot of complaints on the teaser but I think it looks great. It's The Punisher, he kills mobsters and kicks a lot of ass. That's what the movie looks like. I mean, what do people expect?

Ray Stevenson looks good as the Punisher, borrowing from the Max line of the character. Really looking forward to this.

[Joe Strummer]

It looks alright, but I am so incredibly disappointed that Jane is not returning...I mean his story was just getting started and I loved the last shot of him on the bridge in Punisher 1.

I don't have a problem with this new guy. I'll have to see the movie before judging...but the part in the trailer where he's hanging from the chandelier is just stupid.

[Lance Lives]

I haven't seen the teaser yet, but it seems like I'm one of the only people that didn't feel like the 04 version was very good. I mean, it was alright for what it was I guess, but I personally didn't think it felt much like the Punisher, I know there was stuff in there from Welcome Back Frank and stuff, but it just seemed...wrong or something.

[Livingdeadboy]

Ew. That movie has SUCK-ASS written all over it. Ray Stevenson doesn't look like the Punisher and his voice is HORRIBLE!

That and the fact that the movie just looks horrible. Tom Jane - Where are you?! Please steal this movie away and make it better!!!!

I won't go see this in theaters. Period.


I agree with you 100%

[Psychoticninja]

Ok, i just watched the trailer and first off as someone who really really REALLY loved the '04 version and Tom Jane, I'm :( that he's not in it, but I tried to be as open-minded as possible and I actually do find it to look pretty cool. The title War Zone fits the movie entirely as Frank has to fight what looks like a million bad guy :P. To me i have good hopes for this and i guess we'll have to hope for another trailer

[The Dream Master]

Ack. It looks like it could be good, but Stevenson just doesn't grab me as someone who is as compelling as Tom Jane. They should have done all they could to get him back. Too bad.

[Rick]

I thought the Punisher was more of a tactician then to hang upside down from a chandelier and spin, for some reason that just doesn't seem right to me.
I do admit that my experience with the comic is limited to the Garth Ennis stuff though.
I remember seeing Ice-T do the same thing in 3000 Miles to Geaceland and thinking it was the worst tactic I've ever seen.

[Psychoticninja]

Yeah, i'm upset that Jane isn't in it because to me he WAS the Punisher. But....i GUESS i'll take Stevenson. Oh and that spinning chandelier thing, for some reason that reminded me of Hitman. I dunno why, it just did

[CosmoBubba]

Wait a second, is John Woo directing this movie? Because it looks like a John Woo movie, only with Ray Stevenson instead of Chow Yun-Fat.

[Geddy Peart]

It looks like they're taking things in the right direction, but not enough. I'll check it out, but the trailer looks like shit.

[blink]

I don't know... I love the 04' version as much (if not more) than most people. It was just an excellent action movie to me.

This one is promising. I think its really unfair to judge this one based on that trailer. I mean, we really don't see too much in it. Most of the action sequences seem to be from the same few scenes. There are no clips of Jigsaw or any other significant characters. It just focused on quick clips of Frank kicking the same ass over and over again and shooting guns in different ways.

If anything, this gives me some hope for the movie. I mean, the trailer itself was just filled with mindless, filler action. And it seemed at least promising to me. Add in a kickass bad guy, supposedly tons of blood and hopefully a decent story, and this could be a solid addition to the Punisher film series.

Then again, this could all just be me being wayyyy too optimistic... But I'll reserve judgment until I see the flick (or at least until the next trailer comes out).

[hack slash]

way to many bright colors in the trailer. Did Joel Schumacher direct it?:p (I know he didn't)

[Cody]

Lexi Alexander has said that she was going for a heightened comic booky style, taking the color lighting from the MAX Punisher books. She posted some panels from the comics on her blog (http://www.lexialexander.com/) as reference.

[Cody]

Pictures (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=46357) of a couple new posters.

Or at Latino Review (http://www.latinoreview.com/news/punisher-war-zone-posters-4930).

[blink]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37642


Damn Studios!! :mad:


They new 2 minute clip online now from Comic Con actually had me getting kinda stoked for this...

[Jack Bauer]

Holy shit! That clip was un-fuckin'-believable.

And I hated the music.

[Livingdeadboy]

this article (http://www.latinoreview.com/news/lionsgate-wants-a-pg-13-punisher-war-zone-5212) should change your mind about how "awesome" this movie wil be.
-------

By George 'El Guapo' Roush on August 14, 2008

Lionsgate Wants A PG-13 Punisher: War Zone?


Following up on an earlier article, one of my contacts deep within the bowels of Hollywood and close to the Punisher: War Zone project (source will not be named. Sorry!) told me today that the big fight over the Punisher project is Lionsgate wants a PG-13 cut to be released.

We already know that Lexi Alexander has allegedly been fired from the film. Her own website doesn't even mention anything about the Punisher movie anymore. You would think that even if she were a consultant on the project, she'd be mentioning this huge comic book movie coming out later this year, but that isn't the case.

Of course, Lionsgate can always say, "This was never intended to be PG-13. We always had an R rating in mind." but I trust Hollywood as far as I can throw it. I'm sure there's some Lionsgate exec thinking this film can do what The Dark Knight has done with a PG-13 rating.

And I'm betting it's the Dark Knight impact having something to do with this internal battle over the cut of the film. Dark Knight is PG-13 and made a ton of money. But this isn't Batman. This is The Punisher. The Punisher kills people. Violently. I don't want a PG-13 movie, and I especially don't want one after seeing the ultra violent red band trailer.

What do you guys think? Is Lionsgate going nuts over here? Who really wants a PG-13 Punisher movie? I'm pretty sure the actual fans of the comic book don't. Voice your opinion below or e-mail george@latinoreview.com and let Lionsgate know fans of the comic want to see The Punisher do some actual punishing!

----------

so yeah. . .

[Cody]

There's been changes at Lionsgate and a push to make it a major studio, but it sounds like the push is sending it into the shitter instead.

[El Rooto]

Cutting it for an R-rating? That looks to be impossible.

[Jigsaw]

That's pathetic to make this movie a PG-13. Lion's Gate has really gone down the tubes this year, first with how they shafted Midnight Meat Train and now possibly with this. I wonder if they're considering cutting Saw V down to a PG-13 :X

[Michellemabelle]

That's pathetic to make this movie a PG-13. Lion's Gate has really gone down the tubes this year, first with how they shafted Midnight Meat Train and now possibly with this. I wonder if they're considering cutting Saw V down to a PG-13 :X
God let's hope not.

[Jigsaw]

I'll boycott Lion's Gate if that happens, and if they're smart, they won't do that.

[Jack Bauer]

Lion's Gate is going down the shittier.

God only knows what will happen if SAW V gets a G rating. :shy:

[CosmoBubba]

Judging by that new clip, cutting the movie down to get a PG-13 rating will result in it being about ten minutes long. It'll literally be the opening studio logos, a shot of Frank Castle walking down a dark alley with a gun, then the end credits.

[nottidelterrore]

A PG-13 Punisher movie? No.

[The Dream Master]

From all we've heard about this before, I think the PG-13 rating will be the least of its worries. :X

[El Rooto]

I doubt that story is true, in any case.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, like the all-metal soundtrack.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, the PG-13 Punisher stuff is false.

'Punisher: War Zone' PG-13 Rumor Debunked (http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00017701.html).

[Jigsaw]

Good to hear. PG-13 Punisher, no thanks.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, I think the whole Dark Knight stuff got out of control and how studios want the next dark PG-13 comic film.

[Cody]

Yeah, the PG-13 Punisher stuff is false.

Better be, I want to see people get fucked up like this:

yU6XKFCJr6Q

[happycampertwo]

Anyone else getting a Steven Seagal vibe from the trailers for this? Maybe its just me, but so far it looks like a generic B action movie, not a Punisher film. I'm just not a big fan of the way Stevenson looks, especially the turtleneck vest of body armor and the fact that the skull is barely visible. The 2004 Punisher film was great IMO, while it deviated from the back story, it captured the feel of the comics, at least the one's I've read. This new film could be the latest Arnold 80's action movie from what I've seen.

[Lammert]

Looks like this is also a reboot....

[Cody]

This new film could be the latest Arnold 80's action movie from what I've seen.

That's pretty much what a Punisher movie should be. A Punisher that matches up to Commando would be a grand ol' time.

I think Stevenson looks good.

How over-the-top some moments of violence look Punisher smashing in a guy's face with a punch, Jigsaw ripping off a guy's head in his bare hands is slightly concerning. But if they have gone Dead Alive cartoony with some of the kills I'm not going to be too bothered.

[El Rooto]

The REAL story behind Punisher: War Zone (http://screenrant.com/real-punisher-war-zone-story-vic-3486/) is here, and it's fuckin' huge.

Thanks once again to Screen Rant reader “Nomad” we have another inside scoop on what’s been going on behind the scenes of Lexi Alexander’s Punisher: Warzone (aka Punisher 2). Nomad says that although the source cannot be named, they are HIGHLY reliable.

What follows are the details of what’s happened behind the scenes of the production from the first draft of the screenplay, to the Comic-Con, PG-13 accusations and the revelation that yes, the movie will be rated R. I’m posting what I was sent unedited for the most part, and have added my thoughts here and there.

Keep in mind I really don’t have any bias towards this film one way or another…

Punisher: War Zone rumors deconstructed

I have a very dear friend who’s been around Hollywood for a long time. He’s a unique person here, because his ethics are still intact AND he still has his sanity. (Which means he’s NOT rich!) I think you’ll agree that’s a unique combination here! So I asked him to check out Punisher: War Zone, Lionsgate, and all the surrounding hoopla. He did, bless his sweet heart, and he wrote a fooking dissertation! Well, he’s brilliant, too. Did I mention I adore him? I do!!!

What follows is his report, which I have NOTedited, even though it conflicts with some of my own previously held opinions. At the end of his letter, I’ve attached a bit of a time line he wrote, so people can follow what happened and when.

No, I will NOT tell you who he is. So please don’t bother asking. His credibility is in what he writes, which is balanced and fair. You’ll decide on your own, neh?

************************************************** ******************

Nomad,

Sorry it took so long. I think I’ve read enough on “Punisher: War Zone” and Lionsgate Films (hereafter PWZ and LGF for brevity) now to offer an educated analysis of what may have happened and why you shouldn’t worry too much.
First I want to dispel a few MISPERCEPTIONS about PWZ, since those have unfairly put some people off.

MISPERCEPTION #1: “PWZ is a sequel whose script was so horrible that star Thomas Jane walked away from it.” Not quite! Per PWZ co-writer Kurt Sutter in a Collider.com interview: “Nick Santora and myself, whose names were on the second big draft, got caught in the crossfire when Tom Jane was growing dissatisfied with the turn Punisher was taking. Tom lashed out at the script using it as his scapegoat for exiting the project. [...] I like Tom Jane, I’ve had lunch with him, think he’s a decent guy. But I always felt that if Marvel really wanted to re-invent the franchise, you’d have to re-invent the Punisher”. And PWZ did in fact morph from sequel to REBOOT, so recasting was likely inevitable anyway to avoid confusion. Tom himself said that his reason for leaving was that LGF rejected Walter Hill as director and he stood by Hill — but I think he saw the writing on the wall and left before he could be recast. Tom strikes me as generally bitter about his parting with PWZ and even told fans at July 2008’s San Diego Comic-Con that PWZ is a “piece of s***” (though he has no way of knowing this), but to his credit he later wished new Punisher Ray Stevenson well (”He sounds like a cool guy [who] loves the character and wants to do him justice. For his sake I hope the movie doesn’t suck.”).

Sutter, whose draft began the shift towards rebooting and was cited as Tom’s other reason for leaving, ultimately removed his name from credit arbitration because so little of his work remained; credited writers are Santora, Marcum & Holloway (the latter two are Marvel’s “go-to guys” whose “Iron Man” later did big business). The only person who HAS seen the actual shooting script AND publicly commented on it is Kurt Sutter. His verdict per his blog: while it was obviously not HIS vision, he graciously said it was “tight”, “followed the perfect comic book formula”, and he predicted “true fans of the Punisher comic books will enjoy this movie” and “it will open huge”.

How will that shooting script translate to the screen? “The Spirit” producer Deborah del Prete has seen Lexi’s rough cut and said she loved it and thought it would please fans. We’ve no word yet on how much of Lexi’s cut remains intact, but PWZ cinematographer Steve Gainer said that the August 16 cut that he viewed was “something wonderful” that he “loved” — he sounded proud of the results. [From what I've seen of "The Spirit" so far, I don't think I'd take del Prete's comment as a ringing endorsement. - Vic]

MISPERCEPTION #2: “Nobody will see PWZ because there’s no star power in the cast.” PWZ is probably relying not on big names but on a high concept designed to appeal to a niche audience of Punisher fans as well as a general action fanbase. Punisher ‘04 had a bigger budget but higher overhead because of big names like John Travolta, and it performed poorly, so I can understand LGF refining their strategy and leveraging their risks. In any case, PWZ’s cast are all experienced actors, if not widely known. [I honestly don't believe that anyone ever expected this to be some huge blockbuster seen by "everyone." - Vic]

Now I want to discuss the RUMORS about PWZ that have unfairly put some people off. LGF could put an end to all of the bad publicity pretty easily with a press release, but for whatever reason they haven’t, so I’m simply going to analyze what is known and how it may affect the finished film; the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Many agree that PWZ director Lexi Alexander is a tough cookie whose enthusiasm for her work is infectious. Cast members Ray Stevenson and Dominic West both attested to being uninspired by early drafts they read, and Lexi talked them into doing the film based on sheer enthusiasm. Crew member Tom Book hadn’t cared for the project at first, but he attested that Lexi soon inspired everyone to believe they were working on “a masterpiece” so they worked diligently through the packed 40-day shoot consisting of mostly wintry Montreal nights. Her blog inspired the many Internet-savvy Punisher fans to get excited about the film as well.

On the flip side, I believe Lexi’s made her fair share of enemies (and who in Hollywood hasn’t?). The IESB source who slammed Lexi’s rough cut as “one of the worst movies ever made” strikes me as just some malcontent Lexi pissed off, especially given that UGO’s more impartial “Detective Soap” said that in spite of Lexi’s “Jekyll/Hyde” personality, her footage was fantastic. It hasn’t escaped me that Lexi’s “Hooligans” co-writer Dougie Brimson popped out of nowhere on the FilmSchoolRejects comments section just to retort to Tom Book that Lexi was “disloyal” and “devious”, adding “trust me, Im far from alone in thinking that way.” [I have no opinion on this as I'm not privy to the details. Personally all I care about is the final product and even directors and actors with bad attitudes who are disliked can produce a great film. - Vic]

So while Lexi may be a brilliant director with a talent for inspiring artists to work hard for her vision, I think she is probably very protective of that vision and tends to butt heads with people who might threaten it. The 2002 Oscar-nominated film she directed before PWZ, “Johnny Flynton”, was a 20-minute independent film she had great control over. She co-wrote, directed, and executive produced 2005’s feature-length “Hooligans”, scrapping with her co-writer along the way. But with PWZ she was suddenly working with a big Hollywood studio that was undergoing change.

I believe that LGF greenlit PWZ, Lexi delivered, and LGF was mostly pleased with her April 1 screening, as Lexi reported in her blog — and then the “Midnight Meat Train” (MMT) business began affecting things. Peter Block, who was in charge when both MMT & PWZ were greenlit, left LGF in November 2007 and Joe Drake replaced him. Both MMT and PWZ are bloody, violent, hard-R films based on properties with existing NICHE audiences. Given how Drake shuffled around MMT’s release date and then “dumped” it into only 100 backwater dollar theaters with plans for a quick DVD release, I can imagine producer Gale Anne Hurd became concerned and wanted to save PWZ from MMT’s fate, so she brought in the Hulk (2008) editors to make Lexi’s cut more mainstream, as reported by FilmSchoolRejects’ source. I believe the UGO rumor that LGF clashed with Lexi over her publishing unapproved publicity materials to her blog. I believe the FilmSchoolRejects rumor that Lexi’s first trailer cut wasn’t liked by LGF, so I’m thinking they cut a new one and released that in early June, since Lexi’s blog made a point of mentioning she was surprised by it, alarming some that all may not be well. LGF did sack Lexi’s chosen composer (Christopher Franke, who had scored both “Johnny Flynton” and “Hooligans”; Charlie Clouser was briefly reported to have come on board, then Michael Wandmacher). [Considering what Lionsgate did to Midnight Meat Train I can understand some alarm on Gale Anne Hurd's part. - Vic]

I suspect Lexi was more than simply frustrated by LGF’s tightening control over post-production. She had 6 months to prepare for July’s Comic-Con, the US’s #1 comic book film promotion event, so she would have had to be EXTREMELY pissed off to schedule her honeymoon during it. All of this is consistent with the FilmSchoolRejects and UGO rumors, which agree with each other that Lexi was unusually difficult and unpredictable for a Hollywood director, and that LGF limited her post-production involvement (but did not fire her). FilmSchoolRejects’ source also later called bulls*** on LatinoReview’s PG-13 rating rumor and confirmed the film will remain rated-R, which cinematographer Steve Gainer also later confirmed.

So PWZ’s July 24 2008 Comic-Con panel was conspicuously missing the film’s own director, and Gale announced Lexi was on her honeymoon. Then “frustrated” long-time LGF insider “Jigsaw” contacted AICN a day later to say Lexi wasn’t on her honeymoon — she was FIRED along with her composer and couldn’t talk because of a “non-disclosure clause”. He was probably (misguidedly?) trying to pressure LGF to restore Lexi’s involvement and save PWZ from a crap hard-rock soundtrack. [Which was the background music for the most recent restricted trailer. - Vic] I think Lexi took advantage of the controversy to let her feelings be known when that very day she removed all mention of PWZ from her blog and replaced it with a picture of the see/hear/speak no evil monkeys. Surely she was aware of the rumor and the message that picture would send (”if I can’t speak, I’ll say it with a picture!”). I can’t imagine LGF demanded she remove all the good publicity she had generated for PWZ with her blog; she started it only after beginning work on PWZ and mentioned Lionsgate controlling what she could divulge. If Lionsgate asked her not to speak further on PWZ there, it would have been simple enough to not touch the archives and quietly comply in the future. Even if Lionsgate DID ask her to remove all mention of PWZ, it would have been easy for Lexi to replace it with a message like “Lionsgate wishes to control publicity about PWZ now and has asked me to remove everything related to it.” So there is perhaps truth to the FilmSchoolRejects rumor that Lexi is “childish” and “erratic” and UGO’s rumor that she was a “Jekyll/Hyde” sort who resented LGF’s “censorship”. [I think that Hollywood directors are starting to leverage the power of the online movie community to influence things in their direction. Jon Favreau dabbled in a bit of this with the stories that he had not been contacted to direct Iron Man 2 a couple of months ago. - Vic]

Because Marvel fans seem to live on the Internet, Lexi’s blog worked wonders in garnering their support. I can sympathize with her frustration with LGF, but her unprofessional blog stunt fanned a s***storm that eventually only served to torpedo PWZ’s image and, oddly enough, stroke Lexi’s ego — Punisher fansites lit up with “Bring Lexi Back” campaigns including a petition and a devoted website (GPA’s pwztruth), the latter attacking Gale Anne Hurd as a no-talent butcher of Lexi’s film. Quite honestly all of this is futile, since Lexi’s further involvement is self-limited because she’s already working on a new project per her own blog! It’s the very rare director who gets final cut anyway. [I commented here on the site that any attacks on Hurd where no doubt COMPLETELY unjustified. - Vic]

Regardless of Lexi’s further involvement, I believe Lionsgate is doing its best to deliver a compromise that will please both hardcore Punisher fans and general action fans; the shooting script was good; Lexi’s vision was strong and her footage looks great; it’s still a bloody violent hard-R (verified publicly by Steve); and it’s got a composed score as the film deserves and not a thrashing hard-rock soundtrack (verified privately by Gale). [The soundtrack news is certainly good! When I heard the music layered over that last trailer I almost decided right there I wouldn't even bother seeing the film. - Vic]

I will say that with Lexi’s blog now silent on PWZ, LGF needs to get correct information out and turn around the damage that was done. The bottom line: if Punisher fans can get past the misperceptions and rumors, they’ve still got plenty of reason to look forward to PWZ. [Agree completely. Why isn't Lionsgate doing "official" damage control? - Vic]

So that’s my take. Hope it helps, and share as you like.

************************************************** ************

Again, from Nomad:

This may make things a bit more clear if you’ve any question. Just note who contacted whom and that may clarify what their motivations were. Here’s a complete timeline:

1. July 24, 2008: PWZ producer Gale Anne Hurd announced at Comic-Con that director Lexi Alexander had gotten married to the film’s first assistant director and did not attend as she was on her honeymoon.

2. July 25, 2008: AICN’s Harry Knowles claimed that a LGF insider he’d known for years (”Jigsaw”) contacted him out of “sheer frustration” to say” Lexi was NOT on her honeymoon and had missed Comic-Con because she had been fired; she couldn’t say anything because she was wrapped up in a non-disclosure clause; and LGF had jettisoned Lexi’s composer and was going to market the film with a hard rock soundtrack instead of an orchestral score. On the same day, Lexi Alexander wiped her blog of all mention of PWZ and replaced it with a picture of the see/hear/speak no evil monkeys, which seemed to confirm she’d at least been gagged.

3. July 28, 2008: FilmSchoolRejects’ Neil Miller pursued LGF for confirmation of the AICN rumors, and finally a “reliable source close to the production” said: Lexi was not fired but she has been “pulled away” from the project; Lexi had turned in a cut for the first trailer that LGF hadn’t liked, and her response was “childish” and “unpredictably erratic”; producer Gale Anne Hurd brought in the Hulk editors to recut the film and make it “more presentable” for its release on December 5; if the production cannot “be salvaged” it could lead to a “limited [theater] release and a bigger DVD release”. In the comments section, PWZ crew member Tom Book defended Lexi as a loyal inspiring “tough cookie” who had been essentially abandoned by producer Gale Anne Hurd during the brutal winter production in Montreal, and that “a bunch of us have seen her cut and are aware of the changes the studio wants to make and trust me, no Punisher fan would agree with those changes.” Lexi’s “Hooligans” co-writer Dougie Brimson responded to Tom Book that Lexi was “disloyal” and “devious”, adding “trust me, I’m far from alone in thinking that way”!

4. July 29, 2008: UGO’s Dr. Know claimed they received a call from an LGF inside source (”Detective Soap”) who said: trouble between LGF and Lexi started months ago when LGF sent her some publicity materials for her approval that she put up on her blog, and when they asked her to remove them she went “a little bananas” and claimed this was “unfair and stifling censorship”; Lexi is like “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde”; Lexi really had been on her honeymoon during Comic-Con but though she knew the date plenty in advance had not bothered to change her plans; Lexi’s raw footage was fantastic; Lexi was new to working with a large studio and may not have been prepared for the lesser control over the finished product; PWZ had not been completely taken out of her hands but she was still a consultant and involved in further decision-making. CHUD’s Devin Faraci called bullsh*t UGO’s source, saying that “it’s news [in Hollywood] when someone is NICE to work with” and that UGO had painted her as “one step away from saying she had bad PMS”.

5. July 30, 2008: IESB’s Robert Sanchez claimed their own Lionsgate insider said: Lexi’s first cut which was shown to the studio was “unwatchable,” “unreleasable”, “one of the worst movies ever made”, and “Dolph Lundgren’s 1989 Punisher is a masterpiece compared to this outing”. (My note: This from an Oscar-nominated director?? I don’t think so. Sounds personal though!) On the same day, Lexi finally made a new post to her blog in which she sounded bitter about “the vicious cyber world” and mean people; she thanked people who were loyal to her, implying there were others who were NOT; she implied things had not gone smoothly in Hollywood and she’d moved on; and that she was excited about working on a new project with her former “Green Street Hooligans” producer Deborah del Prete.

6. August 1, 2008 (approx.): IMDB.com’s PWZ running time was updated to a running time of 87 minutes, fueling fan fears that “Lexi’s film was being butchered by Gale Anne Hurd”. In addition, Lionsgate’s “Midnight Meat Train”, a hardcore bloody violent horror film based on a story by Clive Barker, premiered in about 100 dollar theaters instead of wide release as had been hoped for by horror fans, a decision apparently made by new LGF COO Joe Drake. Rumors swirled that Drake was “dumping” the films made by his predecessor out of spite; Punisher fans feared this fate might befall PWZ too. Also, somewhere along the way IMDB was updated to show that Charlie Clouser had succeeded Lexi’s preferred composer Christopher Franke, then the composer was removed altogether. UpcomingFilmScores then reported that the new composer was Michael Wandmacher. When his source was questioned, the author wrote: “It was confirmed by his agency, Evolution Music Partners. Contrary to all the rumors going around on the net, which are ALL false, no other composer has been attached to this project save for Lexi’s original composer, Chris Franke. And the score is an orchestral/electronic hybrid. There’s no “heavy metal” in it.”

7. August 4, 2008: PWZ producer Gale Anne Hurd was alerted to some scathing posts about her on IMDB’s PWZ message boards and was confused by the hostility. In a private email she said: PWZ will NOT have a hard rock score but an orchestral score as the film deserves, and Lionsgate had NOT posted the 87-minute running time to IMDB because that wasn’t true. She even wondered if a rival studio were trying to give PWZ bad publicity by providing IMDB the bogus run time.

8. August 14, 2008: Latino Review’s George Roush claimed a source “deep within the bowels of Hollywood and close to the Punisher: War Zone project” contacted him to say: “the big fight over the Punisher project is Lionsgate wants a PG-13 cut to be released”, presumably with hopes of emulating the success of the PG-13 “The Dark Knight”. FilmSchoolRejects’ Robert Fure called bulls*** on Latino Review and tracked down their own source who is “close to the production” and whom he trusts completely, who said: PWZ will definitely be rated R.

9. August 16, 2008: PWZ cinematographer Steve Gainer posted on Tim Bradstreet / Thomas Jane’s Raw Studios message board that: Lexi is not off the film, is still “steering the boat”, is still involved in the edit process, did in fact get married; he saw a cut of PWZ that day that ran 91 minutes (my note: that’s only 4 minutes longer than the rumored 87 minutes from IMDB but still a standard length for a feature film); PWZ will be rated R and will be released in theaters on December 5, 2008. Based on Steve’s post, AICN and Latino Review published clarifications.

*************************************

Well there you have it. I wanted to get this out to you ASAP. What an unbelievably sordid mess… The sad part of it is, that in the end I have a feeling this will end up being about a fairly unremarkable film - a tempest in a teapot.

Punisher: War Zone opens on December 5th.

[Apocalypto]

Could someone please give me a link to this uber violent clip that was released (sorry if it's already been posted, but I'm looking through the thread and can't seem to find it).

[Cody]

The uber violence is the ComicCon Trailer in my post 6 posts back. ^

[Apocalypto]

Ah, thank you.

I thought it was an actual clip and not a trailer.

Death by chair leg...interesting. I like the Jigsaw look. Stevenson looks like a nice fit and even though I like Jane alot, he looks more the part.

I'm somewhat enthusiastic about this.

[Nick Michalak]

The Thomas Jane film was total crap, and the marketing of this film makes me cringe. What little dialogue is featured sounds phony. Stevenson kind of sounds like Ben Stiller as "Tropic Thunder's" Thug Speedman in those "Scorcher" trailers. Trying to sound all hardcore and bad ass like some bad Dirty Harry impersonation. I'm really am getting a Steven Seagal DTV B-movie feel out of this, but in a different way than the last film. This looks like over-the-top ultra stylized action. Personally, I'd prefer something more grounded and edgy like the 1970s action films - Death Wish, The French Connection, The Warriors. Down n' dirty on the streets, pulling no punches, and pushing the envelope of violence. That's what I've always envisioned a Punisher film to be like. Yeah, all the explosions, butchery, and gunshots look real nice, real expensive. Doesn't matter.

"A special effect is a tool, a means of telling a story. A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing." -George Lucas, circa 1980.

-NJM

[Sean [The Wildcard]]

Joblo (http://joblo.com/punisher-gets-r) and MPAA (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3id41521fe85d4537f32f1cebca68cdc9a):

Despite the insanely bloody footage shown at Comic Con this summer, there was a lot of drama around PUNISHER: WAR ZONE , mainly rumors that director Lexi Alexander had been booted and the studio wanted the movie to shoot blanks with a PG-13 rating.

Turns out there was no cause for alarm -- Frank Castle will be blasting meaty chunks out of organized crime with a firm 'R' rating "for pervasive strong brutal violence, language and some drug use".

The movie is due in December, just in time for the holidays! Lock and load, ho, ho, ho.

If you haven't seen it yet, the official site also has the latest trailer (http://www.punishermovie.com/) , which has more focus on villain Jigsaw.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc216/homeofhorror3/homeofhorror4/PunWar1.png

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc216/homeofhorror3/homeofhorror4/PunWar2.png

[Jack Bauer]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc216/homeofhorror3/homeofhorror4/PunWar2.png

Billy Russo looks like a pimp in this photo.

[Spook]

The color palette in this film reminds of the Saw franchise. I think the film looks like fun, if anything else. I hope it's good.

[jasonlives13]

I saw the original trailer and I was like, oh this looks terrible, ray's voiced sounded weird and stuff, then i saw the red band trailer and I was blown away, I hope it does get a release in the UK in december and not like 3 months later like the tom jane punisher

[The Dark Vampire]

I saw the original trailer and I was like, oh this looks terrible, ray's voiced sounded weird and stuff, then i saw the red band trailer and I was blown away, I hope it does get a release in the UK in december and not like 3 months later like the tom jane punisher

I'm sure it was later than 3 months I pretty sure I bought it off PlayUSA before we got it over here

[Esten]

TV Spots are popping up. Looks like.... :/

Oh, Dolph, where for art thou?

[jasonlives13]

I'm sure it was later than 3 months I pretty sure I bought it off PlayUSA before we got it over here

Well it probably was I can't remember really since it was 4 years ago, but I have a feeling its going to be the same over here

[Apocalypto]

TV Spots are popping up. Looks like.... :/

Oh, Dolph, where for art thou?

At home, reliving the ROCKY IV glory days.:)

[The Dream Master]

He's at home practicing his 200 psi punches and wondering just why in the hell Paulie had to have a robot.

[Jack Bauer]

These pics are credited from a poster on the Superhero Hype!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/cask8er87/westprejigsaw.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/cask8er87/westjigsaw.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/cask8er87/frankmicro.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8681/pun2qw7.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6135/pun4cu5.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/101/pun6vx0.jpg
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2236/pun7gc9.jpg

[Geddy Peart]

Not to crazy about the Jigsaw make up, but I'm actually really looking forward to this film. From what I've been reading, this will be the most authentic Punisher film to date.

[jasonlives13]

Im pissed, I contacted empire cinemas online over here in the UK and asked them about the punisher warzone gettin released, I stated that the 5th of november was when it was gettin released in the states but her answer was I don't think thats on our schedule, so once again the fuck ups who distribute the punisher over here have fucked up AGAIN, just like last time

[Nick Michalak]

I think you meant December 5th as the U.S. release date.

-NJM

[El Rooto]

Jigsaw's got a nice suit in that last pic. And by "nice", I mean it reminds me of Batman Forever.

[The Dream Master]

Am I still the only one who still asks "Who the fuck is Ray Stevenson" whenever the TV spots for this come on?

[Nick Michalak]

Ray Stevenson has never appeared in any TV program or feature film that I have ever seen. I suppose they're trying to make him seem like someone of note when he's really not.

-NJM

[The Dream Master]

Exactly! I don't get it.

In a way, it seems like they're just screaming out, "It ain't Thomas Jane this time, folks. Sorry."

[Spook]

Well, wasn't he big on Rome? I mean, I've never seen the show, but from what I've read, he was pretty good in that. Otherwise, I no jack shit about the guy.

[Jack Bauer]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/The_Dark_Knight_2007/Jigsaw.jpg

A new pic of Jigsaw in the latest TV spot and he looks pissed!

[jasonlives13]

I think you meant December 5th as the U.S. release date.

-NJM


Aye sorry my bad

[Cody]

Im pissed, I contacted empire cinemas online over here in the UK and asked them about the punisher warzone gettin released, I stated that the 5th of november was when it was gettin released in the states but her answer was I don't think thats on our schedule, so once again the fuck ups who distribute the punisher over here have fucked up AGAIN, just like last time

Yeah, as far as I can tell there's currently no release date for the UK.

[CosmoBubba]

That one picture of the neon crucifix really makes me think that they just decided to save money by recycling props from Leonardo DiCaprio's Romeo and Juliet movie.

[Apocalypto]

Am I still the only one who still asks "Who the fuck is Ray Stevenson" whenever the TV spots for this come on?

I remember him from King Arthur, if not for that, I'd be thinking the same thing.

[4BarrelHemi]

Looks like it'd be at least worth checking out. I liked the violence i saw in the trailer.

[jasonlives13]

Doesnt look like its gettin released in the UK =(

[Jack Bauer]

New Pics check them out here:

http://media.movies.ign.com/media/382/382367/imgs_1.html

Also I am enjoying the look of Billy Russo after being Jigsaw. Everything looks out of whack which I like since the guy becomes extremely psychotic.

[Cody]

A coupl (http://chud.com/articles/articles/17233/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-I-AM-SO-PSYCHED-FOR-PUNISHER---WAR-ZONE-UPDATED/Page1.html)e (http://chud.com/articles/articles/17240/1/RAY-STEVENSON-IS-READY-TO-REENLIST-IN-THE-XIIIth/Page1.html) reactions (http://twitter.com/RyanRotten/status/1033739906) from last night's press screening -

...was totally fucking awesome. I loved it. Finally, someone made a Punisher movie that is fun to sit through. The movie is brutal and silly and strange and funny and packed with action and madness and more than a little bit of that contemptuous Garth Ennis black humor.

Punisher....absolutely ridiculous in all the right ways.

[francesco]

here in Italy it will be out next april.
I just hope it could do very well at the domestic usa box office this week-end!

[Boiler Room Brawler]

This movie is not looking good but I think I might see it anyway.

[Cody]

Full review (http://chud.com/articles/articles/17245/1/REVIEW-PUNISHER---WAR-ZONE/Page1.html)

It's not often that I get to trot out this little critical bon mot, but here goes: Punisher: War Zone kicks ass. A lean, mean mayhem machine, this movie gives you almost everything you could want in a movie that is essentially Death Wish on steroids. It took three tries, but they finally got The Punisher right.

Director Lexi Alexander leans heavily on Garth Ennis' Max run on The Punisher. She just about nails that tone perfectly - a black humor based on carnage that edges on cartoonish and simpering, idiotic mawkishness masquerading as character development. I could never tell if Ennis was serious about 'serious' bits in his Punisher run or if that was all part of his tongue in cheek contempt for pretty much everything, and I felt the same way here. Is The Punisher waving at a little girl supposed to be funny or touching? Hard to say. But I do know how I feel about The Punisher holding a little girl in his arms while he shoots a handcuffed guy in the face with a shotgun at close range. I feel good about that.

Alexander's film is drenched in neons and pastels (and blood). While other comic book movies race for realism or gritty noir posturing, Punisher: War Zone takes its own route. Surprisingly the film is often lovely to look at; Frank Castle sits in a neon church, hashing out his moral issues with a priest while in the background multi-colored candles flicker just out of focus. And then, in case this scene was getting too introspective or looking too arty, Castle says 'Sometimes I'd like to get my hands on God...' and everybody laughs. Mazel Tov!

The look of the film actually makes it stand out in that it looks like a comic book. In fact, walking out of the theater the best comparison I could draw was if Lorenzo Semple Jr created the 60s Batman TV today while binging on some really aggressive meth. Lexi Alexander said that Lionsgate was worried that the film would look like Dick Tracy, and it sort of does, but that's in no way a bad thing. This Punisher lives in a heightened reality where a guy comes at you with a chair and you put one of its legs through his eye. This is - thank the lord - not realism, but something much, much more fun. And wetter.

Ray Stevenson's Punisher is certainly closest to what I would like a big screen version of that character to be. His look doesn't quite work for me - he just looks like a grown up soccer hooligan - but everything else is perfect. Stevenson plays Frank Castle as a shark, a guy who just keeps going. He's invulnerable in the best, most fun way. You're not watching a Punisher movie to see The Punisher struggling with bad guys, you're watching it to see him annihilate them with ridiculous ease, and in inventive ways. Stevenson gets a couple of actorly moments - pain about Frank Castle's slain family, self-doubt when he kills an undercover Fed - but he's mostly business here, and his business is blowing motherfuckers away. What's especially nice is that The Punisher doesn't get a lot of catchphrases or cute lines, so Stevenson just plays the ironic little moments silently. It works amazingly well.

The key performance in Punisher: War Zone, though, is Dominic West as Jigsaw. This performance is the one that will either key you in to what kind of movie you're watching or will completely alienate you. West is a great actor, and his accent work is amazing - check out The Wire and you'll see why I didn't guess he was British until I saw him in 300. Armed with that knowledge, his work as Jigsaw is all the more delightful. His accent is so over the top as to be in the stratosphere. You can see him savoring each distended, overblown vowel as it comes out of his mouth. The level of his performance is legendary - bigger than life doesn't even begin to cover it. Ham is just not enough. Throw in every other pork product and you'll maybe begin to grasp it. And it's wonderful. West is playing in the same sandbox as Cesar Romero and Frank Gorshin and he's making them proud. It's a fun performance, filled with maniacal life and glee. I loved every second of it.

All of this is not to say that Punisher: War Zone is a perfect film. There's a perfunctory second act where the gunfire dies down some, and much of that is dull. To her credit, Lexi Alexander seems to understand that characterization and dialogue are for chumps, and she keeps things steaming ahead at full speed for most of the film's 80 minute runtime. For those fretting about Frank's relationship with a widow and her young daughter, don't worry too much - they exist mainly as bait for the final, epic shoot out. There's too much stuff with cops in the film, but again Lexi doesn't let the movie get too bogged down. These scenes feel more like breathcatchers than filler.

Lionsgate has bookended 2008 with two amazing films, both surprising in their quality and shocking in their violence and both starring Julie Benz. Rambo is a much more serious film than Punisher: War Zone, and probably 'better' on some subjective scale of movie quality, but I had a lot more fun with Punisher. It's possible that Rambo is even more violent, but Punisher: War Zone spreads its violence out like jam on an English muffin, hitting almost every nook and cranny with bloodshed and pain. I leave it to a more ambitious person to catalogue every bit of brutality visited upon the human form in this film, but if you're the person who laughs and applauds at the sight of an old lady's head being turned into a smoking, meaty crater, you're going to fucking love Punisher: War Zone.


8.5 out of 10

Sounds like I'm going to be wishing I was watching this with a horror marathon crowd, i.e. an entire room full of people who'd join me in laughing and applauding at the sight of an old lady's head being turned into a smoking, meaty crater. :shy:

[Nick Michalak]

I don't know how to take the hyper over the top villain performance. Something in the realm of Cesar Romero and Frank Gorshin? Makes it sound like the Schumacher Batman films with the violence of a Paul Verhoeven film. I can't foresee how well that works out.

-NJM

[El Rooto]

I think that sounds hilariously entertaining.

Not good, mind you.

[nottidelterrore]

Sounds like it'll be a blast. I'll probably check it out on DVD. I'll see it in theaters if I can.

[Michellemabelle]

Ray looks like the comics' Punisher come to life.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/attachment.php?attachmentid=48289

http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/Ray%20Stevenson%20Punisher%20War%20Zone.jpg

[Jigsaw]

This movie looks cool from the previews and I can't wait for it to finally come out on Friday.

[jasonlives13]

Still no word of it coming out over here (the UK) =(

[Spook]

Hot damn, I am pumped for this movie. It looks and sounds (judging by that review) like it will be a true Punisher film. The Punisher has always been my second favorite Marvel character, so I was disappointed with both of the film adaptations. This actually looks like it will be ridiculously fun. I'm so there!

BTW, does anybody see this pulling in some bucks? I have a feeling that it might flop, and therefore, we will never get another Punisher film. All my buddies told me this looks like shit, and they won't be seeing it. Oh well, their loss, my gain.

[Jack Bauer]

Lionsgate has bookended 2008 with two amazing films, both surprising in their quality and shocking in their violence and both starring Julie Benz.
Forgetting about SAW V?

[Cody]

Or just deeming it not worth mentioning.

Another CHUD review (http://chud.com/articles/articles/17248/1/REVIEW-PUNISHER---WAR-ZONE-RUSS039S-TAKE/Page1.html), 8/10

[Spook]

Forgetting about SAW V?

Well, Saw V didn't bookend 2008.

[Jack Bauer]

True, but still a Lion's Gate release that had Julie in it.

[Jigsaw]

I watched the theatrical cut of the 2004 Punisher last night and enjoyed it. It could've been better in some areas (namely more and longer action scenes and less comedy), but it still delivered, and Thomas Jane was amazing in the title role. I'm sure going to miss him in PWZ, although I'm sure Ray Stevenson will do fine as The Punisher and his portrayal will work for this movie.

[Michellemabelle]

Stevenson is the Punisher. He has the look and the voice. And the scene from the trailers showing the Castle family massacre... chilling....

[Jigsaw]

I think both Jane and Stevenson are good in their own way and not really comparable. Jane's Punisher was a very emotional character that focused more on his inner turmoil rather than his need for vengeance, while Stevenson's is looking to be closer to the comics' version.

[Michellemabelle]

Well the Punisher is about both vengeance and inner struggle. Jane had the inner turmoil down, I'll give him that.

[Jigsaw]

Jane said for the sequel to the 2004 film he wanted to do a much darker movie that had no comedy in it and he wanted to explore Frank's violent side, but he left because he didn't like the approach Marvel and the studio wanted. I'm sure he would've been a good violent Punisher had he been allowed to develop the character the way he wanted.

[Apocalypto]

It's listed as 1 hour and 47 minutes; a pretty good length.

This won't hold a candle to RAMBO, but I've got alot more pumped for it than I thought I'd be. I'm expecting it to be better than the Jane Punisher film, which I really liked. I can't think another piece of comic book film casting where the lead actor looks like the comic book character jumped off the page into the live action world, plus...Julie Benz!:)

[Jack Bauer]

Okay, this got me thinking, "Huh?". (http://www.movieweb.com/news/NE6zZd77gdIg96)

[jasonlives13]

Only 1 day to go for you lucky guys stateside

[Michellemabelle]

Okay, this got me thinking, "Huh?". (http://www.movieweb.com/news/NE6zZd77gdIg96)

Well, why not? Sly directed Rambo.
ADDED:
If I can say anything, I think it would have to say they're doing great with sticking as close to the books as possible. Lexi studied the source material thoroughly, and gave Ray Stevenson every issue of the Punisher MAX series, as well as several of the more prominent stories from the earlier comics. If nothing else, they seem to be really concerned with keeping the film true to the character's roots.

[Jigsaw]

Got my ticket to see this tomorrow at the earliest showing earlier today :D I can't wait. I also got The Punisher video game for the PS2 earlier, it was only $12.99.

[Lance Lives]

I actually think this might be decent. I was thinking about the fact that the 04 version of The Punisher just didn't really do it for me yesterday, but from the way the review above sounds, this may be the closest we've gotten yet.

[Spook]

Even though a lot of the reviews out haven't been too positive, they have definitely pumped me up. Especially the one over at Aint It Cool News. They all seem to say the same thing. Out of all the films so far, they say this is the most faithful to the comics. Hell, it's even been compared to RoboCop and Starship Troopers (AICN review), which excites me even more!

[Lance Lives]

Yes, I would say that when talking about an over the top action movie, those two are quite up there for positive comparison.

[Geddy Peart]

Even though a lot of the reviews out haven't been too positive, they have definitely pumped me up. Especially the one over at Aint It Cool News. They all seem to say the same thing. Out of all the films so far, they say this is the most faithful to the comics. Hell, it's even been compared to RoboCop and Starship Troopers (AICN review), which excites me even more!


Odd, most of the reviews I've read have been positive. I reaaly hope this is as faithful and accurate as people are saying. The film looks like something out of the MAX series and Ray Stevenson looks like Frank should. His voice is even close to what I hear in my head when I read the comic.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this on Monday. I don't think I've been this excited for a movie since TDK.

Please, oh please let this be the Punisher film I've desperately been waiting for.

[Nick Michalak]

I have to say, I am mostly interested in seeing this. I do have reservations about it going in, but if I can arrange my weekend to see it in a matinee, I'll give it a fair shake. Last thing I saw in the theatres was either Tropic Thunder or The Dark Knight, and they're practically both on DVD now!

-NJM

[The Dream Master]

How the fuck did this movie become appealing in the last couple of weeks? I'm strangely allured by it, and the presence of the new F13 trailer has pretty much guaranteed that I'll see it tomorrow. Weird.

[Jack Bauer]

Truth be told:

I think everyone is loving the dark, gritty tone of the film and West's Jigsaw.

[SaturdayThe14th]

CON: No Tom Jane
PRO: R rating
I guess this movies success will be based on new guy Ray Stevenson's performance. Unless it's just an all around awful script.

[The Dream Master]

The '04 movie was rated R as well.

[Jack Bauer]

But not as bloodied or violent.

Think of it as this TDM:

'04 was the realistic violent Punisher ala Nolan's Bat-verse.

'08 is The Punisher that's violent and OTT.

[Geddy Peart]

I thought the '04 Punisher film was over the top, especially how Frank was blown into the water, the fight with the Russian and the flamming skull at the end of Howard Saint's death.

[jasonlives13]

I thought the '04 Punisher film was over the top, especially how Frank was blown into the water, the fight with the Russian and the flamming skull at the end of Howard Saint's death.

Yeah when I saw the skull at the end with all the cars on fire I was like :confused:, I mean seriously how long did it take him to attach all those remote mines and make sure they would explode in the right order, and he must of had a hell of alot of them in order to do it

[Spook]

Yeah, the flaming skull was really fucking stupid. It was cheesy. I have a soft spot for the '04 Punisher flick, but PWZ looks like it's gonna annihilate it!

[Apocalypto]

One of the most outlandishly over the top, entertaining campy splatterfests ever made.

Julie Benz actually manages to bring some heart to this uber violent Loony Toons episode, Stevenson was a perfect fit for the role, the villains were having as much fun as I had watching them...aside from Shoot 'Em Up and maybe Grindhouse I'm hard pressed to think of a better over the top fun romp action flick.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah when I saw the skull at the end with all the cars on fire I was like :confused:, I mean seriously how long did it take him to attach all those remote mines and make sure they would explode in the right order, and he must of had a hell of alot of them in order to do it
Sure it was OTT, but it was also making the offical mark of Frank Castle after becoming The Punisher. Because everyone knows that the moment he said, "Both of them" to Howard Saint is when he suppose "became" The Punisher.

[Apocalypto]

Anybody that felt the flaming skull in the Jane film was "too over the top" is REALLY gonna hate the new movie.

[Jack Bauer]

From what I seen, it's like a Punisher MAX come to life. I've seen from the previews Frank shooting a guy in the face with a shotgun at point blank range, him caving in a dude's face, Matrix-style shit, and Billy surviving after getting tossed into a glass crusher and mangled by the glass.

How is that NOT over the top?

[Spook]

Anybody that felt the flaming skull in the Jane film was "too over the top" is REALLY gonna hate the new movie.

Yeah, but given the context of the Jane film, it was stupid. The film was obviously trying to take a serious and realistic route with the Punisher character, and the flaming skull was a bad gimmick. I am fully aware that this new film isn't meant to be taken seriously, and is OTT. I've been reading reviews and watching the TV spots, and have an idea of how this film is going to be.

[Theprofessor]

I went to the midnight show of this bad boy. Now this is a farking Punisher flick! There was a total of like, 10 people in the theater... ha ha, but we all loved it!

It was ridiculously brutally violent! Lots of gore, the opening scene was definitely straight out of the Ennis/Punisher Max comics. It was the closest adaptation to the comics, Frank was straight up no bullshit blow your face off without giving it another thought and go after the rest of your crew.

It even had the most comic characters in there Jigsaw/Billy the beaut, Det. Soap, Microchip, Maginty (even though he wasn't anything at all like the comic.)

They gave Frank his original comic origin with the events surrounding his family and the mob, of course they ignored his tour of Vietnam seeing as how he would be too young to have been in Nam.

Only complaints, and they are minor ones: Punisher's "touching" interactions with the Donatelli girl, Punisher punching a guy in the face and caving his face in (that's Voorhees status,) the metal soundtrack, Jigsaw's recruitment speech,and the hanging from chandelier spot.

Other wise, the movie was bad ass! Punisher fans, go see it now! Action fans, go see it now! Anyone else, give it a gander if you got nothing else to watch.

Oh yeah, and they showed new trailers to "The Spirit" which looks amazing, and the new F13 trailer which looks very promising. I'm still unsure if it's a remake or a midquel (which wouldn't make much sense seeing as how F13 2-4 pretty much take place back to back and Jason doesn't get the hockey mask until part 3,) but it looks like a straight up stand alone sequel.

[Jigsaw]

Got back from seeing this movie and enjoyed it a lot. I'm not sure if I like it better than the 2004 film or not (I haven't seen the extended cut of that yet, and I have yet to see the 1989 film), but it's definitely worth a look. Ray Stevenson was a pretty good Punisher, although I liked Thomas Jane better in the role. I must say that Dominic West owns this movie and chews up the scenery with every scene he's in, he will definitely always be Billy/Jigsaw in my eyes.

[Spook]

So for those of you that have seen it, would you say it's the most faithful version of The Punisher yet? I liked the '04 film, but felt it wasn't the Punisher that I love. I'm actually gonna drop a quote that I read on another board that perfectly sums up my feelings regarding the '04 film and from what I've heard about on this film:

I don't know, man. Though since they probably won't feel the need to make up some bogus FBI-raid-gone-bad scenario, or kill off every single member of Frank's immediate and extended family, we probably will get through the family deaths a little faster this time.

And really, in the comics, it's something that just happened. There was none of the premeditation or extenuating circumstance from the '04 movie. Frank and his family were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and saw the wrong thing. That was the whole point. That's why the Punisher is out to eradicate all crime, rather than just seeking revenge...because his wife and children could have been anyone. They weren't killed (along with all his third cousins twice removed) for being the family of an FBI agent...they were killed simply because they were there.

I think we've got a director this time who actually understands that, and realizes that the broad outline of the origin isn't enough to define what Frank ultimately becomes...that the details are actually important to his full-scale war on crime. This is why it never rang true in the '04 movie that it wasn't about revenge. Clearly, it was, and Frank really had no powerful motive to go beyond that. I think the correct ending to that film would have been for Frank to commit suicide, as he'd planned. It makes more sense for that movie, which I just can't see as a real Punisher movie.

So we probably will get through the death of Frank's family faster then the '04 movie did, but I don't think that necessarily means it will be "glossed over." I just don't think they're going to obscure the origin with a lot of extraneous, superfluous nonsense that doesn't help to further define the character, but instead, reduces him to the level of some '70s-era Charlie Bronson knock-off.

And the drama doesn't end the moment Frank's family dies. If it did, the character in the comics would have no dramatic value at all by now. It would just be a cover-to-cover shoot-out every month. But that's not the case. So long as Frank is driven by the execution of his wife and children, the potential for drama exists. And I'm hoping to see it in more than just the execution scene of PWZ.

This guy really nails my feelings about it. I'm definitely gonna check PWZ out tomorrow.

[Geddy Peart]

Yeah, but given the context of the Jane film, it was stupid. The film was obviously trying to take a serious and realistic route with the Punisher character, and the flaming skull was a bad gimmick. I am fully aware that this new film isn't meant to be taken seriously, and is OTT. I've been reading reviews and watching the TV spots, and have an idea of how this film is going to be.


Exactly, the 04 film took itself too seriously. This one seems as if it's declaring "This IS a comic book movie!" It's aware that The Punisher is a bit over the top any way you slice it and runs with that

[hack slash]

I thought the '04 Punisher film was over the top, the flamming skull.

We can all thank The Crow for that one, just like in Daredevil, but at least in The Crow it was awesome:D

[Cody]

Jigsaw and his side of the story were goofy as fuck. Some may find it enjoyable, some may find it embarrassingly bad.

The Punisher side of things and the violence and havoc he wreaks was perfect. Stevenson is great in the role.

There was a total of like, 10 people in the theater

7:20 on opening night and there were only 8 people in there. :X

[Spook]

We can all thank The Crow for that one, just like in Daredevil, but at least in The Crow it was awesome:D

But at least in those films, it was KIND OF believable. There's no way Castle could've figured out which cars to detonate in order to make a flaming skull, unless he was in a helicopter or a on top of a really tall building, and meticulously picked out which cars to blow up. Daredevil and The Crow at least just used gasoline, and made it seem less ridiculous. Plus, given the tone of The Crow, it totally fit the film. Daredevil, however, was just plain bad. And yeah, in The Crow, it was awesome.

Anyways, I've decided on going to the 12:00 showing tomorrow. Can't wait!

[nottidelterrore]

Hopefully I get to check this out sometime next week.

[Apocalypto]

This movie is just awkwardly hilarious and entertaining in ways that it's difficult for words to describe.
Even if they think it's terrible, if someone doesn't find this movie fun to watch, I'd wonder if they had any sense of humor or adrenaline glands whatsoever.

[jasonlives13]

damn it im jealous of all of you, lionsgate still havent released any details on a uk release

[The Dark Vampire]

damn it im jealous of all of you, lionsgate still havent released any details on a uk release

If it's anything like the last one if it does get a cinema release here it won't be until about May and by then it will be out on DVD R1 so I'll just get it from PlayUSA.com

[Burn]

If it's anything like the last one if it does get a cinema release here it won't be until about May and by then it will be out on DVD R1 so I'll just get it from PlayUSA.com

Yeah, seriously. I live in a fairly large city and there was one cinema with one showing of the '04 Punisher in opening week. Totally worth it, though, and I'm looking forward to this.

[Cody]

Low opening (http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/look-familiar-fridays-top-films-all-holdovers-four-christmases-1-twilight-2-bolt-3/)

My box office gurus were perplexed why Lionsgate would open its Marvel Comics vigilante Punisher: War Zone (not a sequel to the 2004 film, but a fresh start on the Punisher franchise) only 9 days after releasing Transporter 3, since they're similar action genres. But it had to do with space and availability. So it didn't come as a surprise that the R-rated pic will probably do less than half what Hollywood expected, $4+M as opposed to $9M-$10M, after debuting to just $1.6M Friday in 2,508 theaters.

[i am SAW]

:shock:
OH
:shock:
MY
:shock:
GOD
:shock:


this is by far the best comic book movie i've ever seen. i'm just going to call it what it really was, and that's a horror movie. this didn't have action scenes, it had bloody gory death scenes. how about the scene when we first saw Looney Bin Jim? have you ever seen anything like that in a comic book movie? that felt like a leftover scene from The Silence Of The Lambs. Jigsaw was an ok character, i've heard critics raving about his performance, but i thought Punisher and Looney Bin Jim both outshined him by a landslide. not to mention Looney Bin Jim is a just a cool name. if you added all horror themed music to the whole movie, this would no doubt be a full fledged horror movie. people in the theater kept screaming and oohing and ahhing every time someone got brutally slaughtered. this movie was crazy.

on a side note, the SAW fanatic in me can't help but compare this to a SAW movie. it's a Lionsgate release, Julie Benz was from SAW V is in it, the guy who played Rex from SAW IV was in it, the "look" of the film had a dark gritty look like SAW V, and there's a character named Jigsaw. i'm not saying any of that was ripped off from SAW, those are just some similarities i noticed. plus i enjoyed it almost just as much as a SAW movie.

god, this movie was fucking awesome. i'll be seeing it again this weekend.

[Apocalypto]

Low opening (http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/look-familiar-fridays-top-films-all-holdovers-four-christmases-1-twilight-2-bolt-3/)

Yeah, I'd have been pretty surprised if this movie didn't flop...a release fairly close to Christmas doesn't exactly fit an obscenely violent action romp, and Stevenson isn't exactly a huge mainstream draw.

[The Dark Vampire]

Yeah, I'd have been pretty surprised if this movie didn't flop...a release fairly close to Christmas doesn't exactly fit an obscenely violent action romp, and Stevenson isn't exactly a huge mainstream draw.
Not just that but a lot of people don't have time or much money to spare at Christmas to see a film if they do go it's often a family movie they go to see

[Burn]

the "look" of the film had a dark gritty look like SAW V, and there's a character named Jigsaw. i'm not saying any of that was ripped off from SAW, those are just some similarities i noticed.

I'm glad you're not suggesting that the Jigsaw in this film was based on Saw's, because the Punisher's Jigsaw pre-dates Saw's by a good few decades. :p

[Jigsaw]

on a side note, the SAW fanatic in me can't help but compare this to a SAW movie. it's a Lionsgate release, Julie Benz was from SAW V is in it, the guy who played Rex from SAW IV was in it, the "look" of the film had a dark gritty look like SAW V, and there's a character named Jigsaw. i'm not saying any of that was ripped off from SAW, those are just some similarities i noticed. plus i enjoyed it almost just as much as a SAW movie.


Don't forget the "Let's play a game" line and when Frank is forced to choose between saving Angela and Grace, or Microchip. I thought that was a nice little Saw homage.

[i am SAW]

Don't forget the "Let's play a game" line and when Frank is forced to choose between saving Angela and Grace, or Microchip. I thought that was a nice little Saw homage.
good one. i watched this again today and noticed a couple more SAW semi-similarities.

that swirling thing full of glass that Billy-Jigsaw fell into looked exactly like a trap you'd see in SAW.

when Frank Castle stuck a pencil up his nose and broke it back into place. that was just about as cringe worthy as Eric Matthews smashing his foot.

again, me comparing this to a SAW movie is a good thing, a very good thing.

and again, this movie is fucking awesome.

[Jigsaw]

A Saw/Punisher crossover movie would be cool if done right, and both are owned by Lion's Gate. Who wouldn't want to see Frank be put through a series of tests or have to escape from a grisly contraption, or better yet, see John Kramer and Billy Rusotti face off? :D

[Nick Michalak]

I just got back from seeing this - EXCELLENT MOVIE! I would give it a 9/10. Some fo the Jigsaw stuff later in the film was goofy and not much to my liking. Also, the frequent use of heavy metal music was too much at times, but not entirely bad. Of course, everything directly involving Ray Stevenson as Frank Castle was dynamite premium grade stuff. He's everything you would expect the Punisher to be, and this film presents him in the proper light. This is coming from someone who has never read a single Punisher comic book, and I can't imagine this not being terribly faithful to the source material. I love how Castle moves and operates in the action scenes. It's all very military, but exceptionally nasty. No mercy, no prisoners - everyone dies. This makes me think of the arc in The Dark Knight about limits and lines the hero won't cross. The Punisher has no lines he won't cross. If you're a criminal, you will be punished. I won't spoil anything, but Frank doesn't waver. It doesn't matter if the cops are right there to arrest the bastard, he exacts his own brand of justice everytime. The level of violence and carnage is absolutely appropriate for The Punisher. It is necessary in order to understand the emotional and psychological mindset of Frank Castle. It explains why he is such a grim figure, and what the definition of a vigilante truly is. Why the cops and criminals fear him, and why neither want him on the streets. He is a man alone, and no one can truly understand him without seeing and feeling what it is he has gone through. Still, you see that he does feel things, and that he has a morality and a soul. This film is so much different than The Dark Knight, but is not far off from being as solid of a film.

I hated the 2004 film (from what I could stomach watching) because it was campy, cheesy, and felt like a poor B-grade action movie. The Miami setting was a terrible choice, and the acting was too lightweight. There was too much overt humor, stupid characters, and quite frankly, NOBODY walks around in Miami wearing a leather trench coat. Leather & tropical don't mix. Now, while most of this film was shot in Vancouver & Montréal, the added flavor of New York City makes all the difference. One shot has Frank on a rooftop with the Chrysler building over his shoulder - gives the film so much texture and character. The establishing shots of Manhattan really added depth to the environment, and it made the film feel more real to me.

Ray Stevenson is absolutely everything that you'd want from your Frank Castle thespian. He handles the role with serious weight. There's too much to rundown about his performance, but straight forward, he's powerful and realistic. After what Frank Castle has gone through, you shouldn't expect the man to anything better than how he is presented here. A grim man with a lot of deep seeded pain, torment, and disdain. There's so much depth to his performance, and he hits every beat just perfectly. Lexi Alexander did direct one hell of a killer film, and I adore the cinematography and lighting - so vibrant, moody, and saturated with all the right colors.

I could say so much more about this film, but let me just say that the last shot, the last moments of the film are just flat out BAD ASS! Iconic and threatening. I love it! Sadly, there was little more than half a dozen people in the theatre for a 4:50 PM show. Still, you KNOW it'll make serious bank on the DVD / BluRay sales. I'm sure Lionsgate will foresee that, and put together a meaty package for those releases. I look forward to it, and I would seriously go see this again in theatres!

-NJM

[Apocalypto]

"This makes me think of the arc in The Dark Knight about limits and lines the hero won't cross. The Punisher has no lines he won't cross. If you're a criminal, you will be punished."

Yeah, it reminded me of that too. I told my dad after the movie that if The Joker had to deal with Castle, he wouldn't have made it fifteen minutes into the movie.

"You have a code...you can't kill m...*BANG*"

:)

It also sort of reminded me of the RAMBO theme with the ultimate idealist and ultimate realist POV's clashing...how even the most pacifist people out there should realize that whether you like it or not, what somebody like Castle is doing is necessary unless you want the corrupt to be able to get away with whatever they want.

Him telling the cop "I've been down that road for a long time, you're not there yet, and you aren't going there" is one of my favorite moments in the film...I loved Angela pressing the gun against him and not being able to pull the trigger too. It certainly doesn't handle this theme with as much substance as The Dark Knight, but for a film that's so over the top and ridiculous, it was done well enough and gave the film some substance.

[jasonlives13]

Are man im even more jealous now im glad though true fans are enjoying it for what it is, and not for what is isnt, ive been lookin foward to this film for ages, just looks like I'll have to buy it on dvd before it even gets released over here from the states

[Apocalypto]

This movie is definitely going to be a domestic bomb, not sure how it'll do overseas, but it should clean up on dvd.

Even if it doesn't get another theatrical release, LG may let Stevenson direct the next Punisher film for a dtv release with a smaller budget.

It's too bad; when I first heard of the recasting I thought it was a horrible choice and was pissed Jane didn't come back, and I was almost positive this would be my least favorite comic book film of the year by far in a year with The Dark Knight, The Incredible HULK, Iron Man, and Hellboy II...I'd say The Dark Knight definitely led the pack, but other than that I'd rank it right up there with any of them and I prefer Stevenson's Punisher to Jane's.

This movie was better than I could've hoped for, one of the most entertaining action/superhero flicks ever made, and as goofy as it is, it actually manages to have some substance.

[Jigsaw]

I hope this movie does well enough on DVD at least and makes enough to warrant another theatrical Punisher movie. The lack of promotion and poor release time (December is never a good time to release this type of film) are what killed it at the box office.

[Jack Bauer]

Just saw with my father and two words:

MOTHERFUCKING AWESOME!

I was kinda surprised that Frank killed Jigsaw because they had a Frankenstein's monster thing where as many times he had the chance, he would not kill him. I guess that is what happens when there's another Jigsaw around.

[Jigsaw]

I too was kind of bummed Jigsaw died, he was awesome and I would've loved to have seen Dominic return for a sequel for a darker take on the character, although I also dug his energetic take in this film. Seeing as Jigsaw has a high pain tolerance, who knows if this movie is the last we've seen of him :side:

[Jack Bauer]

High pain tolerance? Aside from getting his face butchered, what else could he take?

[Jigsaw]

He looked like he burned to death at the end of this film while simultaneously being impaled.

[Jack Bauer]

True, and he was dead because once your blood boils, your dead.

[Jigsaw]

Survival is probably out of the question for him.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, unless he has a weird good luck charm that allows him not to die. A disfigured, brunt Jigsaw would be interesting.

[Jigsaw]

And probably even more pissed off.

[Jack Bauer]

Especially when James got capped by Frank. Whoo boy, Billy would be pissed off. Again Frank says, "This just the beginning.

[Jigsaw]

Ray Stevenson said that quote was something he put in the film himself as a nod to the fans who want to see more Punisher films and that he wants to do more as well.

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, I can see that. Ray seems very fan friendly like Jane was.

[Apocalypto]

Especially when James got capped by Frank. Whoo boy, Billy would be pissed off. Again Frank says, "This just the beginning.

That was more of a reference to where Billy was going than it was him coming back.

[Jigsaw]

Although I miss Thomas Jane in the title role, I think Ray did a great job as well, and I'd be content with either returning to reprise the character.

[Jack Bauer]

Ray seemed Punisher-like. Like Jane, he embodied the role.

[TheLoStboY199]

Geez, 4 mil opening weekend...That's gotta hurt. I don't know, I saw the movie and I had a ton of fun watching it. It was so over the top and outrageous that it reminded me of old exploitation/action films of the 80's like First Blood 2, Death Wish 3, and Bloodsport. Had some pretty damn good gore effects also.

[Jack Bauer]

One of favorite moment OTT moments is when after hurling one of the jumping guys and landing him onto a spike fence, Frank jumps and lands on the neck and killed him. Of course there was the mini-RPG bit before hand.

[jasonlives13]

Man im so pumped for this, I really can't wait to see it, im as excitied as I was to see the dark knight

[Geddy Peart]

Just got back from a showing and I gotta say...

This is how a Punisher movie is supposed to be!

The entire movie felt like a Garth Ennis story come to life with it's look, feel and black humor. Watching this, I could tell the filmmakers paid careful attention to the source material and obviously cared about how this film would turn out. I loved seeing Cristu and Tiberu Bulat from "The Slavers", Maginty from "Kitchen Irish" and of course Detective Soap from the Marvel Knights comic line. I also found it amusing that they made Jigsaw a combination of the original character and Nicky Cavella. I even giggled to myself when Frank impaled the one guy on the fence/gate and then proceeded to land on the guy's head. Loved that reference to "In The Beginning". However, I don't like the changes made to Pitsy and Ink But that last part is a very small nit-pick.

There is really so much I liked about the movie, especially Ray Stevenson. IMO, he is to Frank Castle what Christopher Reeve was to Superman. I really felt he added a lot of emotion to the character, he's incredibly expressive with his eyes.

And of course the action scenes were crazy. They were brutal, bloody and again they felt like they were taken right off of the pages from the comic books.

It's not going to win any awards or be praised by critics, but it was an incredibly fun movie-going experience. It 's a shame it's not doing well at the box office though, because it's worthy of being at least moderately successful. Hopefully word of mouth will pick up and ticket sales will increase. Hopefully it'll at least break even in theatres and then do well on DVD.

This is one Punisher movie I'd definitely like to see get a sequel.

[Jigsaw]

I'd love it if this movie got a sequel and maybe even leads to a trilogy. I hope it picks up majorly in DVD sales and overseas, those two are it's best chances of any success at all.

[Jack Bauer]

Cristu and Tiberu Bulat from "The Slavers"
That was them?

[Geddy Peart]

I think it was supposed to be.

[Jack Bauer]

I think I may have thought of that while watching the film.

[Cody]

I think I thought I saw you try.*

*just quoting R.E.M.

[Burn]

The entire movie felt like a Garth Ennis story come to life with it's look, feel and black humor. Watching this, I could tell the filmmakers paid careful attention to the source material and obviously cared about how this film would turn out. I loved seeing Cristu and Tiberu Bulat from "The Slavers", Maginty from "Kitchen Irish" and of course Detective Soap from the Marvel Knights comic line. I also found it amusing that they made Jigsaw a combination of the original character and Nicky Cavella. I even giggled to myself when Frank impaled the one guy on the fence/gate and then proceeded to land on the guy's head. Loved that reference to "In The Beginning". However, I don't like the changes made to Pitsy and Ink But that last part is a very small nit-pick.

Why must you say things like this. I am now yearning to both see this film and finish reading all of Ennis' run on Punisher. This film sounds glorious.

[Boiler Room Brawler]

I thought that it was fun for what it was.

[Geddy Peart]

Why must you say things like this.


Cause I like tormenting people.

And for as much as I liked it, don't expect something like TDK. This is just a fun, adrenaline-fueled ride with Frank Castle as your tour guide.

[jasonlives13]

Cause I like tormenting people.

This is just a fun, adrenaline-fueled ride with Frank Castle as your tour guide.

I like this little rhyme haha :D

[Geddy Peart]

I like this little rhyme haha :D

Didn't even realize I did that.

[Boiler Room Brawler]

Didn't even realize I did that.

I once was a poet but I blew it.

[i am SAW]

I once was a poet but I blew it.
what you blew is that line because it doesn't rhyme.

it's "you're a poet and didn't even know it".

PUNISHED!

[El Rooto]

Wow. You missed the joke.

Will see this tomorrow.

[Boiler Room Brawler]

Wow. You missed the joke.

Will see this tomorrow.

Unfortunately I do not have a car to give away, but here's a wonderful new goat for you!;)

[Geddy Peart]

I'm feeling a little agitated with fanboys right now.

I was reading a thread on this film on the SuperHeroHype.com boards and I just don't get those people:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=315636&page=23

Seriously, I'm reading some of their complaints and I'm wondering if most of them have even read the comics this film is based on.

They're complaining that movie was over-the-top, the bad guys were too stereotypical and exagerated, the "mobster" accents were hammy, the deaths were played for laughs, the film makers didn't adapt stories from the comics exactly like they should be, it's not TDK, etc.

I don't know what they were expecting. Most of the things they complain about PWZ is what makes The Punsher comics great.

1) Most of Frank's adversaries are stereotypes and over-the top. You're honestly going to tell me Barracuda wasn't an over-the-top villian or Ma Gnucci and Nicky Cavella in their own right?

2) The dialogue Garth writes for villians is usually hammy in some sense and reinforces the stereotypes. Honestly, who didn't hear Nicky Cavella speak with an exagerated New Yawk accent inside their heads when he was in the comics? I know I did.

3) Punisher comics are dripping with black humor, especially the Marvel Knights line and the current MAX line although not it's more subtle.

4) Many of the deaths Frank's adversaries meet are played for laughs and over-the-top in the comics. Again, it was more apparent in the Marvel Knights series but it's still there in the MAX series. An example would be Frank impaling Pitsy on an iron-rod fence and then jumping/landing on Pitsy's head in "In The Beginning" which they implemented into PWZ might I add But they still bitch.

5) Name one comic book movie that adapted a comic ark onto the big screen word-for-word. None of them have! Sure, they've all used comic storylines as giudelines and reference material but they don't do any exact translation from page to screen. Heck, the beloved Nolan Batman films didn't even adapt the Year One, TDKR, Long Halloween or The Killing Joke on to the screen. They just used them as reference material. But fans don't bitch about that at all.

6) It highly unlikely any comic book movcie will come close to what TDK achieved.

Seriously, why can't fanboys just be happy? PWZ while flawed and imperfect had all of the elements that we love about the comics, and yet they still whine. Why?

And what pisses me off the most is that given the poor promotion the movie has received and it's dire performance at the B.O., the hardcore fans are really the only resource this movie has to rely on.

I'm tired and I think I've ranted enough on the subject for now.

[Nick Michalak]

You know, Lionsgate gave Transporter 3 probably more publicity, and they DAMN sure have given The Spirit a HELL of a lot more! So, why does Punisher get shafted? All I hear about Transporter 3 is pretty bad and lackluster. The Spirit, I honestly couldn't care less about it. PWZ deserved to have its marketing handled a lot better than it has been.

-NJM

[Jigsaw]

I agree, Geddy. I just read the TPB of the Max comic, In The Beginning, and some much of it reminded me of PWZ. I've also long come to accept that no adaptation of any comic book will ever be 100% faithful to the source material, since there's only so much an illustration with words can do when the filmmakers adapting it have to take some liberties here and there for improvement. I think as long as the material is overly faithful and respectful to it's source all is fine, and PWZ was close enough to the comics for my liking.

[Nick Michalak]

I am going to see this again this weekend. That's a definite.

-NJM

[Just Jeans]

So I hear the film tanked (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2520&p=.htm) pretty hard after the weekend.

The weekend's most prominent new release, Punisher: War Zone, had a pitiful start, grossing $4.3 million on around 2,700 screens at 2,508 theaters. It was the smallest opening ever for a Marvel Comics adaptation by far, even lower than Howard the Duck, and was a quarter of the previous Punisher movie's opening in terms of attendance.

Punisher: War Zone tried to reboot the franchise after the disappointment of The Punisher in 2004, like The Incredible Hulk versus Hulk from 2003, but its marketing campaign was murky and made no attempt to entice those unfamiliar with the character. What's more, distributor Lionsgate released the similar Transporter 3 last week, stealing some of its thunder.

That's a shame. While I'm not keen on Ray Stevenson in the role, I wanted to see the film succeed. I wonder if they'll pursue another in a couple of years.

[Jigsaw]

Hopefully this isn't the end of Punisher films and theatrically-released ones. I'd imagine the best bet this movie has at success of any kind is to make a killing overseas and on DVD. It may end up being one of those movies people passed on in theaters but gave a shot on DVD.

[Just Jeans]

The film is currently running in 4 foreign countries, and Box Office Mojo estimates that it has only pulled $134,760 in non-domestic profit. If that's a sign of things to come, I wouldn't count on overseas reception adding any major bank to the honeypot.

DVD and pay-per-view are probably the best bets to make this successful, but if that happens, I think a potential follow-up will be a direct-to-DVD feature (from a business viewpoint, it'll make sense to the studio suits). Of course, success in the home market probably hinges on whether or not Lionsgate bothers to organize a respectable marketing campaign for the DVD release, but I can't see the Home Release Marketing Budget being too big.

[Jigsaw]

Lion's Gate is to blame for the movie bombing as badly as it has. Giving it very scarce advertising and releasing it in December, a month where family-oriented movies dominate at the box office, that wasn't the smartest of moves.

[Geddy Peart]

Great, just great. We finally get a good Punisher film and it's quickly fading into obscurity.

You know, I've always liked Lions Gate because they've realeased some of my favorite films over the last couple of years (Saw, Devil's Rejects, Rambo) and they'ved championed said films.

But this... They could have had a success here. Not a big success, but it could have made some good bank. But no, they had to bury what is actually a decent film. Why did they have to release it on the same day as The Transporter 3? They couldn't have released it the week after, or before? And why was there no publicity? They could have conducted a nice online campaign or had the cast do the talk-show circuit but no, they chose nothing.

So as much as LG has released some of my favorite films (this included) I gotta say....

FUCK YOU LIONS GATE! FUCK YOU.


Lion's Gate is to blame for the movie bombing as badly as it has. Giving it very scarce advertising and releasing it in December, a month where family-oriented movies dominate at the box office, that wasn't the smartest of moves.


The fans are just as much to blame. Instead of supporting this, they're nit picking it to death with unrealistic expectations.

So fuck them too.

[Furious Styles]

To be fair, P:WZ was not a very good movie. Re-booting the franchise was a gamble (especially with such a fringe character) and the gamble didn't pay off. When you skimp on budget and script, good things aren't going to happen. That is a simple reality.

Even with its deficiencies, Marvel and Lionsgate would have been better off building upon the success of the 2004 film. Focus on the strengths (Thomas Jane, neo-realism) and try to correct the mistakes (NYC setting, include rogue gallery of villains) etc.

[Geddy Peart]

PWZ was fun. It wasn't a serious film, nor was it trying to be (unlike the 04 film). Yes, it's flawed and weak in some areas but I prefer it over both previous efforts. For the most part it got the look, feel and characterization right.

[Nick Michalak]

The sad thing is, had this film been released in June instead of The Incredible Hulk (with about the same amount of publicity), it probably would've pulled in $20M, minimum, on its opening weekend. Lionsgate only has themselves to blame for the piss poor box office. Obviously, the film was nowhere near being ready for release in the summer, but it just illustrates that there's a right time and a wrong time to release any particular film. December was the wrong time to release an ultra-violent and highly stylized action film based off an edgy and grim comic book character.

-NJM

[Geddy Peart]

I think think Lions Gate really just didn't care about PWZ.

Oh well, here's hoping the DVD will do some good

[Furious Styles]

I think think Lions Gate really just didn't care about PWZ.

You're probably right.

The manner in which Lionsgate and Marvel handled the film even when Thomas Jane was attached showed a huge lack of commitment on their part from the very beginning.

[Darth Sinister]

Or maybe no one is really interested in the Punisher.

[Jigsaw]

The fans are just as much to blame. Instead of supporting this, they're nit picking it to death with unrealistic expectations.

So fuck them too.


I don't know if I'd blame any fans for the movie's poor box office, but Lion's Gate deserves to shoulder most of it for sure.

Looking back at this film, though it's a reboot, I could've seen it easily being a sequel to the 2004 film. The only parts inconsistant are Frank's flashbacks to his family's death and his family being as they originally were in the comics, but otherwise it could've easily picked up from the 2004 film.

[nottidelterrore]

I may be seeing this tomorrow around 5 PM. I hope so. I want to check it out pretty badly.

[Jigsaw]

It's recommended you see it theatrically now while it's still playing, since it'll probably be out of theaters very soon.

[nottidelterrore]

That's why I'm almost postive that I'm going to see it tomorrow.

[Jigsaw]

Tomorrow would be a good time. I bet after this weekend, this movie will be hard to see theatrically.

[CosmoBubba]

As far as I know, most American theaters are obligated to carry a movie for only two weeks initially, then they go from there depending on the box office numbers. So yeah, if you want to see this flick in theaters, you'd better do it by Sunday at the latest.

[Geddy Peart]

Or maybe no one is really interested in the Punisher.

I think a really good Punisher film that is promoted properly could do well theatrically.

I think releasing it in December was a mistake as this month is reallly devoted to Holiday-oriented films.

Let me ask you guys something, if Lions Gate had chosen to release PWZ next month or in February would it have done any better?

The reason I ask is because PWZ has been compared to Rambo violence-wise and Rambo was released in January. It ended up making $113,243,155 worldwide. I think most people just don't want to see a violent and gory movie when Santa's on the brain.

Of course Rambo and Sylvester Stallone are huge names and that obviously helped that film's success, but would PWZ have faired better if it were released after December?

[Jigsaw]

I think it would've done a lot better released sometime in early 2009 as opposed to the 2008 holiday season.

[Just Jeans]

I think think Lions Gate really just didn't care about PWZ.

Didn't some new bloke just take over? He's been dumping a load of films that were greenlit prior to his arrival without any consideration, hasn't he? I'm thinking Midnight Meat Train in specific.

As far as I know, most American theaters are obligated to carry a movie for only two weeks initially...

They're not obliged to carry a film for any set length of time, at least they weren't when I was working at Carmike 10. They ran Death to Smoochy for two days before replacing it with something else.

[Apocalypto]

To be fair, P:WZ was not a very good movie. Re-booting the franchise was a gamble (especially with such a fringe character) and the gamble didn't pay off. When you skimp on budget and script, good things aren't going to happen. That is a simple reality.

Even with its deficiencies, Marvel and Lionsgate would have been better off building upon the success of the 2004 film. Focus on the strengths (Thomas Jane, neo-realism) and try to correct the mistakes (NYC setting, include rogue gallery of villains) etc.

It's quite frankly one of the best action films I've ever seen, it was everything it should've been and everything Statham's movies typically fail to be. Shoot 'Em Up, another one of the best action films around failed last year despite having some pretty big names attached.

I don't find "to be fair, it wasn't very good" to be a fair justification for the films failure for a number of reasons, one of them being that I don't think Meet the Spartans (which actually made slightly more than RAMBO opening weekend, hardly because it was better) and Date Movie did well financially because they were good movies.

Thomas Jane was great at the role he was cast in, problem was he was not really cast as Frank Castle. He was cast as a throwback to Bronson and RAMBO style revenge flicks of the 70's and 80's; Stevenson IS Castle and overall tone and feel of this movie IS the Punisher come to life; and I don't think that a $35 million budget for a fairly little known character is really skimping.

[CosmoBubba]

They're not obliged to carry a film for any set length of time, at least they weren't when I was working at Carmike 10. They ran Death to Smoochy for two days before replacing it with something else.

Huh, I didn't know that. I'd noticed a lot of movies with poor box-office numbers had their theater count drop off after the second weekend, so I just assumed it was like that.

[Just Jeans]

They do seem to give a film a week or two to find its legs, but in the case of films that perform really badly (in the two days we had Death to Smoochy, we only sold three tickets for it) they'll drop them ASAP. I think they tend to keep under performing films more out of courtesy to the studio than out of obligation.

[Furious Styles]

It's quite frankly one of the best action films I've ever seen, it was everything it should've been and everything Statham's movies typically fail to be. Shoot 'Em Up, another one of the best action films around failed last year despite having some pretty big names attached.

I consider such films as Die Hard, Predator, T2, Aliens, Lethal Weapon etc. to be the epitome of great action films. They blend in characterization, suspense and action to create an overall atmosphere of energy and tension. All of which are very much needed in order to drive the action sequences.

A film like Shoot 'Em Up was ridiculously over the top and campy. It retained none of those crucial elements that makes an action film feel timeless. I have no trouble accepting Shoot 'Em Up's poor performance at the BO.

I don't find "to be fair, it wasn't very good" to be a fair justification for the films failure for a number of reasons, one of them being that I don't think Meet the Spartans (which actually made slightly more than RAMBO opening weekend, hardly because it was better) and Date Movie did well financially because they were good movies.

Spoof movies appeal to a certain segment of the population. As do action films. There are some definite similarities between Rambo and PWZ. Both films were very much of the same nature. They both contained very little plot and were very bloody, gory action films which were crucified by the critics.

Thomas Jane was great at the role he was cast in, problem was he was not really cast as Frank Castle. He was cast as a throwback to Bronson and RAMBO style revenge flicks of the 70's and 80's; Stevenson IS Castle and overall tone and feel of this movie IS the Punisher come to life; and I don't think that a $35 million budget for a fairly little known character is really skimping.

That is debatable. The Punisher is a niche comic-book character, whose story arc and characterization is very archetypal. Films such as Death Wish and other revenge-action films of past years deal with the same characterization. It is only natural the filmmakers would study those earlier films in order to transfer the character to a film medium. He is not a very vivid character, which is why P'04 tried to give him depth, in order for the viewer to feel some sort of connection with the character.

Otherwise, you get PWZ. Which was literally the comic book come to life. Lots of awesome action, blood and guts and really bad dialogue. Which was fine, I thought it was hilarious. But I have no trouble seeing why people would pass on the film and wait for the DVD.