Hellraiser series

[Killa Pimp]

What's your pleasure, sir?

Let's discuss the Hellraiser series.
The good, the bad, what you thought should have happened, how to improve, etc.

Personally, I enjoyed the first 2 and Hellworld (Lance is THE MAN!).

But I feel this series has suffered more than any Horror Franchise with very, very, bad sequels.

I supported it as much as I could.

Hell, I was even "THAT GUY" on opening day for Bloodlines, being the only person in the theater:meh: at a 7 pm showing on a Friday at the only theater in town. I should have taken that as a sign for the future.

[The New Blood]

I love the first 3 films in the series. The third is a bit flawed but has some great stuff that the first 2 didn't have enough of(action). I love cenobites. They are so cool in a sick and twisted way. I last saw Bloodline about 7 years ago so I can't comment. I haven't seen any of the others.

[Killa Pimp]

[QUOTE=The New Blood;6751] The third is a bit flawed but has some great stuff that the first 2 didn't have enough of(action).


I would have liked the 3rd one if it wouldn't have taken so long to get interesting. The new "Cenobites" (and I use that term lightly) sucked!:cry:

On a side note, the night time scenes that were supposed to be in New York (I believe) were actually filmed in Greensboro, North Carolina. Its about 40 minutes from where I am from.
I didn't get to go to the filming, because I was in the middle of a four year drunk... (I mean college), and didn't even hear about it, I wound up reading about it Fangoria after it happened.

[Ron]

the first 2 films were great. the 3rd was an entertaining slasher. unlike the big three though, this franchise has always tried to remain completley serious, which may have also been it's downfall.

[Wheatjedi]

I haven't always been a huge fan of the series, but meeting Doug Bradley and Ashley Laurence last month inspired me to get the first four films on DVD. I really like the first two, and the third just screams "early 90s." I actually enjoyed the fourth film.

[Ron]

I haven't always been a huge fan of the series, but meeting Doug Bradley and Ashley Laurence last month inspired me to get the first four films on DVD. I really like the first two, and the third just screams "early 90s." I actually enjoyed the fourth film.

i met doug bradley too..and like a little fanboy I asked him if he would say the whole "what's your pleasure" thing. God I can't wait for rockandshock this year!!

[Wheatjedi]

I was really impressed with him! He was pretty funny during his and Ashley's panel discussion. I was in the front row and got several nice pics of the two of them.

He's not the least bit happy about the remake talk though.

[A. Remin' D.]

Hellraiser and Hellbound are amazing horror films. I love those two. After that, I didn't care for the series.

[Ron]

i think "hell on earth" was aimed strictly towards the slasher audience.

[Wheatjedi]

I haven't seen the last two films, and I don't plan on getting 5 and 6. I saw them on SciFi last year, and I wasn't very impressed. Besides... Bloodline is a good place to stop my Hellraider DVD-buying anyway.

[Ron]

hellworld is a good purchase and you don't really have to worry about continuity because it's in the same vain as "new nightmare" and things of that sort.

[Wheatjedi]

Which one is Hellworld? I tend to get 5 and 6 confused. Or was that one of the last two?

[Ron]

it's the very last one.

[Wheatjedi]

Oh! The one that involves the internet? I'll check it out this weekend then.

Watch.... I'll end up liking it, buying it, and then not being able to handle the gap between 4 and 8. I'll then go get 5, 6, and 7 just to fill the gap. That's the way I am.....

[A. Remin' D.]

i think "hell on earth" was aimed strictly towards the slasher audience.

Yeah, and that's what led to the series' downfall.

Hellraiser and Hellbound were more creative, original, artsy horror films. Then they gave the series a slasher treatment.

[Ron]

Oh! The one that involves the internet? I'll check it out this weekend then.

Watch.... I'll end up liking it, buying it, and then not being able to handle the gap between 4 and 8. I'll then go get 5, 6, and 7 just to fill the gap. That's the way I am.....

i feel you..the only reason I own the hellraiser series is because im a completist:(

[Wheatjedi]

i feel you..the only reason I own the hellraiser series is because im a completist:(

It's tough, isn't it? But it just feels so good to have a complete set....

[Dave Dunwoody]

I admire Peter Atkins a lot for trying to retain the true HR mythos in parts 3 & 4, even as they were slasherized and/or butchered. Hellbound is a spectacular movie, one of my all-time favorites.

[Dead Cell]

Agreed. I love parts 1 and 2. Part 3 is also good and gives us even more depth into Pinheads' past life. I really liked Elliott and thought he added an interesting side to the story.

Part 4 I could like... maybe... if they would put the first half hour back into it. There's so much stuff that was cut from this movie. I remember reading that Kevin Yagher's intention was to have the first block of this movie be free of Pinhead. Instead, the studio cut the 18th century segment way down so they could get their icon on-screen as soon as possible. I even remember seeing cut scenes in the trailer and the 18th century Cenobites that were shown in Fangoria were E-V-I-L looking.

Part 5 (Inferno) wasn't bad. But uh... it could've worked as just any old movie.
Part 6 (Hellseeker) felt like a retread of part 5 but with Kirsty brought back to give the series some semblence of relevance again. I swear Pinhead's grooming her to become a Cenobite. He's in love!
Part 7 (Deader) was... was... just barely a Hellraiser movie? Trying to give it a stronger tie to the core story by having the cult leader be a relative of the Merchant family (the guy that built the original box) felt wasted and nothing really came of it.
Part 8 (Hellworld) is the only one I haven't seen. Although I have been told to avoid it at all costs.

I do like that they're trying to get the series back to its roots with these straight to video sequels, but at the same time, the stories don't feel quite as tight or interesting. The pace of these movies is even slower than that of Hellraiser 1.

[CampNewBlood]

I like all of the Hellraiser films. Hellraiser III is my favorite.

[Ron]

some of the films just make me cringe.

[Wheatjedi]

I really didn't like the 5th film when I saw it on SciFi. It just didn't feel like a Hellraiser film to me at all.

[Ron]

was that the one with all the flashbacks to when the box was created?

[Wheatjedi]

I don't think so. At least I don't remember anything like that in 5. The beginning of Bloodline tells the story of how the box was created.

[Ron]

ahh yes. there in space also correct?

[Wheatjedi]

Yep. Bloodline starts in France (17th century?), then moves to the late 20th century and then goes forward again to a space station at some point in the future.

On a side note, Kim Meyers (Lisa in A Nightmare on Elm Street 2) appears in the late-20th century part of the film.

[Dead Cell]

She survived Freddy. Then Pinhead. Who's next? She'll kick all their asses. :cool:

[Wheatjedi]

She's one tough chick! :) She was also in Serenity, but her one scene was cut (but it's on the DVD).

[Ron]

she was a lot tougher than jesse. i guess she was the "man" of the relationship!

[Wheatjedi]

HA! Yeah... she did seem to hold it together a lot better than he did.

[Joshg]

Haha, I agree.


So, I've only seen four os the Hellraiser films. This is how I'd rate them:

Hellraiser - (8/10)
Hellbound - (8/10)
Bloodline - (5/10)
Hellseeker - (2/10)

I didn't mind that Part 4took place in space. Yes, it was another dumb gimmick, but the majority was in the past. So I liked.

[Ron]

I think Hellbound is one of my favorite sequels.

[Alex DeLarge]

Hellraiser, Hellbound and Deader are my favorites.

Hell on Earth is too slasherized, Bloodline is a mess, Inferno and Hellseeker are WAY too Jacob's Ladder-y (though I did enjoy Hellseeker) and Hellbound is slasherized AND a mess, by far worst film in the series.

Personally, the Scarlet Gospels might be my most anticipated book ever. I want this book more and more as everyday goes by. Barker has to take breaks writing it because it is SO dark that it PHYSICALLY effects him! Add that to a final send-off to Pinhead, my favorite Barker character as the hero and damn... it's because of this that I'm (unlike some of you) also eagerly awaiting the remake. I think of it, not so much as a "remake" in the sense you guys do, but the events of the first film in the universe of the Scarlet Gospels (which Barker confirmed) rather than the original universe. I just hope Barker can convince them to bring Doug back!

[Ron]

hellraiser - doug bradley = no see

[Scarecrow]

Damn it, if only I'd got here sooner, I wanted to start this thread. :p

My Ratings:

Hellbound: Hellraiser II (5/5)
Hellraiser (5/5)
Hellaiser: Deader (5/5)
Hellraiser: Inferno (4/5)
Hellraiser: Hellseeker (4/5)
Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth (3/5)
Hellraiser: Bloodline (3/5)
Hellraiser: Hellworld (2/5)

Hellworld gets an extra point for the Leviathan mention and some cool back stories that sound better than the actual film itself.

As ever, if anyone wants to know the original version of Blodline just go here: http://www.cenobite.com/library/index.htm

The Bloodlien script isn't a possibility, apart from a few things, its GENUINE. It's what was shot. Sure, there's 4 card players rather the scripts 8 and the future segment lost Paul's helper and swapped some names around... but generally this is it. All the past and future stuff they shot and was cut out... but we should have seen it!

Such a shame. I have a copy of an altermnative cut, which has SOME of ther lost footage and Angelique has her far superior french accent (she was dubbed over)... and man, I sooo miss Angelique and Pinhead's fight that they cut from the present.


- Scarecrow

[Dead Cell]

Deader wasn't a bad flick. It just wasn't really a Hellraiser flick. Cannibalized from a completely separate script from what I understand. Someone at Dimension said, "This would make a good movie, but what if we put Pinhead in it!"

So yeah. I do like the DTV Hellraisers for the simple fact that they got back to showing Pinhead and his *snort* Cenobite henchmen as punishers of the wicked instead of as slasher movie monsters that go around killing everything in sight.
They still feel kinda' weak though. And those Cenobite lackies! OMG, some of those- a lot of them- were just sad. I did like the chatterer torso and the slinky twins, but the rest- just disappointing. They were what I'd expect generic Cenobites to look like. Not interesting. Not eye-catching. Not anything. Dull and boring.

[Scarecrow]

By the time of Deader they had NO money. Tunnicliffe designed a cenobite that walked on four stilts in its arms and legs with bags of blood an dpiss wire dup to it, very Tortured Souls but had no money to do it.

Deader is as much cannibalised as Die Hard 3 which started off as an original called Simon Says then became Lethal Weapon 4. The entire 3rd act is utterly original (I have read both versions) and a lot was changed. Deader, if anything, benefits from this as it gives the film a villain other than the cenobites, something that was a big part of HR1 and HR2. Pinhead wasn't put in but the film utterly adapted and altered to make it into a Hellraiser story.

- Scarecrow

[Alex DeLarge]

Deader owns. As Scarecrow said, Hellraiser benefits from another villain. The Cenobites should be like a force of nature (as IMO Jason should), neither good nor evil, just there, affecting both sides in positive and negative fashions.

[Lammert]

I didn't like Deader...

Helbound and the original are the best.
I also loved Hellseeker, it was much better then I expected! It kicked ass..

"welcome to the worst nightmare of all...... reality!"

[Scarecrow]

Can I ask why you didn't like Deader?

I only wondered as I felt it addressed some of the problems with the last two. Cenobites, Hell and the mythology was a main part of the plot. Some really outstanding gore at the end. And only a small section of the film took place in unreality and even then it was important, a kind of dream-quest Winter was using to try and get Amy to join him.

I still adore Pinhead taking down Winter. :D


- Scarecrow

[Lammert]

I just didn't like the story, and couldn't connect with the movie... Maybe I should rewatch it, since I do own it on dvd.

[Shoesalesman]

The first three were great movies, but I haven't seen them in many years. Pretty bloody stuff from what I remember.

[Ron]

1 & 2 were solid films...the 3rd was a slasher-fest.

[Dead Cell]

Pinhead wasn't put in but the film utterly adapted and altered to make it into a Hellraiser story.

What can I say? Cannibalized or not, the story just didn't do it for me. I was yawning. Granted, there were some creepy moments and other things I did like, but not enough to warrant re-watching it.

[Skott]

New 20th Anniversary Edition of Hellraiser is coming out on October 23rd. Has some new interviews and a new documentary. The sell sheet also mentions something about Clive Barker remaking Hellraiser for a release in 2008......huh?

[Ron]

yeah i guess he's remaking his own movie???

[Killa Pimp]

yeah I guess he's remaking his own movie???

Better him than Michael Bay!
Or Worse........................................ Uwe Boll!!
(UGH! the thought of that just gave me a headache!)

[The Dream Master]

New 20th Anniversary Edition of Hellraiser is coming out on October 23rd. Has some new interviews and a new documentary. The sell sheet also mentions something about Clive Barker remaking Hellraiser for a release in 2008......huh?

A Hellraiser remake has been in the works for a while now. Pretty sure Barker's only producing it, so directing duties will fall to someone else. If anyone wants to go ahead and make a thread about this in the recent and upcoming threads, go ahead (just make sure you haven't already started a new thread in that forum today).

[freako104]

I had heard the first one was excellent (I had bought it cheap but hadn't seen it, people on here said I would not be dissapointed). I loved it. III was ok. I did like Deader and the online game one (I can't remember the name of it for my life)as well. Hated Inferno

[Mutant Leprechaun]

The first two movies are pretty bloody amazing for horror movies and the third is a lot of fun. But as far as I'm concerned it all went downhill from there (some of the later sequels had their moments but they never reached the standards of the first three again).

[Ron]

A lot of the sequels just came off as uninteresting IMO.

[Scarecrow]

never reached the standards of the first three again).

The third film had standards? :p


"SH*T! GASOLINE!!!!"


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I have to catch up with this series. I saw the first movie years ago on FX and remember liking it, and have seen Parts 3 and 4 as well, 3 being just okay and 4 actually being pretty good. I saw Hellseeker also and that wasn't too bad. Those are the only Hellraisers I've seen that, I need to see all of them.

[Ron]

I like 1-3 and Hellworld. The rest were pretty much crap IMO.

[Alex DeLarge]

Hellworld is terrible IMO. Ignoring the fact that it has nothing to do with Hellraiser and the plot of teens having sex and getting slaughtered is a completely different horror genre than Hellraiser is in (it'd be like if the next F13 was a psychological thriller about an Asian ghost child with long black hair)...

Ignoring the fact that the "the films were films, this is Hellraiser in the REAL WORLD" is ripped off such films as WCNN, which did it much better (with it not being explained properly what universe it takes place in, if it DOES take place in the HR universe and people made films based on them, or if it was our world with HR elements)...

Ignoring the fact that it completely misrepresents the Hellraiser mythos, doing terrible things with the characters (I never want to see Pinhead decapitate with some with a meat cleaver EVER; he doesn't do dirty work!) and implying the fans are horny teens...

I COULD ignore all that, if the film was genuinely good. But it's not. It's an incoherent mess with more plot holes than I've ever seen in any other film. They were drugged and put underground right? Despite the fact that they were drugged at DIFFERENT times, with the illusions appearing between them and yet the other characters still physically appearing to those already drugged? HUH And the finale drags and drags introduces twist after twist after twist, each one just making the film more confusing. The acting is horrid, even by DTV slasher standards (except for Lance and Doug of course), the sex and gore scenes are laughable, and the dialogue is appalling.

The only good things in that film is Lance and Doug's acting, the Cenobite work by Gary and little hints at the past, such as name-checking Leviathan. Those things don't make a good film however... Hellworld is my least favorite Hellraiser by far.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I only really like Hellraiser 1 and 2. Those are classic! 3 could have been good, IMO. It started off WAY too slow before anything really happened. After that, the series turned into a huge turd, IMO.

[Ron]

Hellworld is terrible IMO. Ignoring the fact that it has nothing to do with Hellraiser and the plot of teens having sex and getting slaughtered is a completely different horror genre than Hellraiser is in (it'd be like if the next F13 was a psychological thriller about an Asian ghost child with long black hair)...

yeah, or Friday The 13th with a body jumping evil spirit. Or Halloween with out Michael Myers.

[Scarecrow]

I think both of them at least had a reason of logic comign from the producers and an aim as to what they wanted to do. Honestly, I don't get Hellworld or what they were aiming for. On one hand theres a sense of wanting to do something for fans, on the other there's making the "Hellseekers" a bunch of sex-obsessed idiots... you don't know whether to appreciate the effort or be insulted at times. :p


- Scarecrow

[Alex DeLarge]

yeah, or Friday The 13th with a body jumping evil spirit. Or Halloween with out Michael Myers.

As said, not only do those films have reasons and context for doing them, but both are still hotly debated topics with fanboys and many think that neither were good ideas (Myers-less Halloween good in theory, body jumping Jason ehhh, but it works okay...). Besides, Jason body-jumping changes the mythology but not the genre (still a gore-filled slasher) and the Halloween change is made not only in tone and genre, but what mythology it occurs in. Hellraiser makes the jump to the different genre while maintaining the mythology aspect somewhat (as I said, I have no idea WHAT universe it occurs in because they never tell us). THAT'S why it's jarring and IMO completely different than JGTH or Season fo the Witch.

[Ron]

I guess to each his own.

[Dead Cell]

There's a brief, almost forgettable exchange in the 1st Hellraiser.

Pinhead: "This is not for your eyes, child."

*Kirsty and Frank have some words, then he gets all ripped apart*

Then, OMG! The Cenobites are after Kirsty! It's all because she stuck around to watch, even though I'm sure it was completely unintentional and she was too much in shock (she just tripped over the skinned corpse of her dad) to even think straight.
The scene tends to come across as the Cenobites just being evil, but I always saw Kirsty staying and watching as the deal-breaker that made her fair game.

[Scarecrow]

But it doesn't quite go that way. Pinhead "this isn't for your eyes" and she goes to leave, only for Frank to attack her. Which the Cenobites then stop and she leaves before/as he explodes.

Besides, she never made a proper deal, remember? Kirsty was too scared to think straight and left a major lop-hole, girl needed to haggle more. The deal was "you take Frank instead of me" and the Cenobites reply was "Maybe"... and she accepted that. You don't make a deal like that without getting the details ironed out!


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

Hellraiser started out as a short story, correct?

[Scarecrow]

Hellraiser started out as a short story, correct?

It was a novella called "The Hellbound Heart" in which the Ceobites appear but not Pinhead in any form we know. There's a Cenobite with "a voice like an excited girl" with a grid tatooed on its headand tongue, both of which have jeweled pins hammered in at every cross section.




A POST from another thread that belongs here just as much:


Originally Posted by Dave Dunwoody View Post
Sidetrack: I notice that a lot of people disliked part 5 (including Barker), but I enjoyed it a lot for its visuals and storyline. Pinhead in this one is criticized as being a Christianized demon, punishing Sheffer for his selfishness and immorality, but I think Pinhead just happens to appear that way because Joseph Thorn's Hell, by his own design (or "engineering"), called for the Cenobites to take on that type of role. Whereas in the case of people like Frank Cotton or Kirsty's husband in Hellseeker, their personal Hells are shaped by other aspects of their characters. I think this is done for each person in order to maximize their pain and/or pleasure.


I entirley agree.

In fact, what Pinhead essentially does is deconstruct Joseph and Joseph's own perception of himself. Frank, as a human, had desires and appetites and Frank admitted that. He was a bastard but at leats he was honest with himself, and the Cenobites gave him their pleasures.

Josepth isn't honest at ALL. He wants all the pleasures of the flesh but at the same denies and excuses this... something bound to piss the Cenobites off. So he says he's a morale man, but wants affairs... and justifies it that he's keeping himself coming home and "whose to say what's right and what's wrong". He thinks finding the child would be "the one good thing" he'd do and it'd ,make up for everything else. He does drugs and lies to his partner but he doesn't ACCEPT his desires but makes excuses for them.

Pinhead's litany is about saying to Joseph, "these are the morale terms YOU claim to be playing by... and these are the results". Pinhead plays Josepth at his own game and showed Joseph how utterly wrong he is and in doing so destroys Joseph's belief in himself and his own sense of goodness.


- Scarecrow

[Dead Cell]

But it doesn't quite go that way. Pinhead "this isn't for your eyes" and she goes to leave, only for Frank to attack her. Which the Cenobites then stop and she leaves before/as he explodes.

Frank goes to attack her, and yeah- the Cenobites stop him, drag him back slowly. And Kirsty is still watching as they proceed to string him up with a bunch of flesh hooks. Their torturing of Frank was part of what she wasn't supposed to see.


Besides, she never made a proper deal, remember? Kirsty was too scared to think straight and left a major lop-hole, girl needed to haggle more. The deal was "you take Frank instead of me" and the Cenobites reply was "Maybe"... and she accepted that. You don't make a deal like that without getting the details ironed out!

*L* Okay, yeah. "Maybe" isn't the best of terms to settle on when negotiating with a demon. :p

[Dave Dunwoody]

Thanks for that Scarecrow, it's good to know I'm not the only one who saw Inferno that way!

[Scarecrow]

Hell, I got a great new reading of Hellseeker the last time I watched it. It's possible to actually see that the only truly close to reality moment is the brain surgery at the start.

Or rather it's a flash of reality early on as Trevor sees these surgeons supposedly operating on him "stirring memories" up and causing, pain and pleasure and messing with his brain and memories.

The Doctors could well be Cenobites (Surgeon?) who he sees as the doctors due to his confused state. The rest of the film is then a mixture of memory and confused dream imagery... the ending itself is reality of course but it's a flashback of before he ended up in Hell just as the journey to find out who the 5th soul is is a memory of his intial indoctrination.


- Scarecrow

[Spade]

I think both of them at least had a reason of logic comign from the producers and an aim as to what they wanted to do. Honestly, I don't get Hellworld or what they were aiming for. On one hand theres a sense of wanting to do something for fans, on the other there's making the "Hellseekers" a bunch of sex-obsessed idiots... you don't know whether to appreciate the effort or be insulted at times. :p


- Scarecrow

Hellworld is terrible IMO. Ignoring the fact that it has nothing to do with Hellraiser and the plot of teens having sex and getting slaughtered is a completely different horror genre than Hellraiser is in (it'd be like if the next F13 was a psychological thriller about an Asian ghost child with long black hair)...

Ignoring the fact that the "the films were films, this is Hellraiser in the REAL WORLD" is ripped off such films as WCNN, which did it much better (with it not being explained properly what universe it takes place in, if it DOES take place in the HR universe and people made films based on them, or if it was our world with HR elements)...

Ignoring the fact that it completely misrepresents the Hellraiser mythos, doing terrible things with the characters (I never want to see Pinhead decapitate with some with a meat cleaver EVER; he doesn't do dirty work!) and implying the fans are horny teens...

I COULD ignore all that, if the film was genuinely good. But it's not. It's an incoherent mess with more plot holes than I've ever seen in any other film. They were drugged and put underground right? Despite the fact that they were drugged at DIFFERENT times, with the illusions appearing between them and yet the other characters still physically appearing to those already drugged? HUH And the finale drags and drags introduces twist after twist after twist, each one just making the film more confusing. The acting is horrid, even by DTV slasher standards (except for Lance and Doug of course), the sex and gore scenes are laughable, and the dialogue is appalling.

The only good things in that film is Lance and Doug's acting, the Cenobite work by Gary and little hints at the past, such as name-checking Leviathan. Those things don't make a good film however... Hellworld is my least favorite Hellraiser by far.

I have to agree with both of you. To me Hellworld just didn't feel like a Hellraiser movie. The only thing that tied this movie to the rest of the franchise was the cenobites and hell they even screwed that up ( by having Pinhead behead somebody with a cleaver ).

Was Hellworld supposed to be a Hellraiser movie. I know Deader was adapted from another script. Was this the same for Hellwold, it would explain a lot... I thought they might of said that on the extra features of the dvd, but I'm not for sure.

Spade
ADDED:
And Scarecrow, in the other thread you talked about liking Channard... you should check out the Channard bust that Frosty Designs made. Frosty's made some great Hellraiser pieces. He has busts of Pinhead, Frank, Surgeoun, and another Cenobite I can't remember at the moment. :

http://82.182.119.57/sites/janne/frosty/ws/channard002.jpg

Take care and God bless.

Spade

[Scarecrow]

Frosty designs, you say? :p


Not only have I spoken to Frosty but he's the guy who provided the mask and torso for the Cenobite costume in my FANFILM, details tcan be found on this thread: http://www.f13-community.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=460


As for Hellworld.

No, it wasn't though some say it was, usually those who don't understand film making.

A TREATMENT, ie. an outline, a rough concept for a story was written fro Hellworld as its own thing. However that treatment (probably a couple of pages) and basic idea was what was re-written and the SCRIPT and everything was written as Hellraiser all along.


- Scarecrow

[Spade]

I'll be sure to keep an eye on the progress of that fan film, as I'm a huge fan of both Hellraiser and fan films. I thought that the Surgeon Cenobite in your movie looked like it was done by Frosty. It's nice to know his work is being appreciated. I love the Machete Version Jason from Part 4 that I got from him.

Thanks for the info on Hellworld. I guess they have no excuse for why it turned out so bad then.

Take care and God bless.

Spade

[Kane Lives]

I have mixed feelings on the Hellraiser films.

I've always liked the first one the best. Just a great story from Clive and it was truly dark and original. I liked Hellbound also, because it retained the same mood and continued the original story. I liked that they took us into the Hell of the Cenobites and revealed a little more. It was a good continuation IMO.

Hellraiser III took me out of the series a little. It didn't have the that same dark, brooding feeling to me that the first two had. I liked the idea of Elliot and Pinhead having been seperated and now Pinhead is a killer with basically no rules for the first time that has to be stopped But, the film as a whole just didn't work for me as well as the first two did.

Bloodline had a good concept IMO. I'm not too familiar with what they cut, changed, and twisted around with it. I know it was originally intended to be different, but it came off more like Hellraiser III to me.


Not a big fan of the DTV films.

I hated Inferno for years after it came out. I still don't really like it, but it's grown on me a little since 2000. It has a few moments.

I admittedly am one of the fans who was unhappy with the lack of Pinhead in the later ones. I don't think he should be onscreen every five minutes, but only a few cameos per film is a little underwhelming for me. But, that's just me. I know he began with only a few appearances in the early films, but I would just like to see a little more of him.


Hellseeker is one film however where the lack of Pinhead did not bother me at all. I really like Hellseeker. Perhaps it was the return of Kirsty that made it better for me, I'm not sure. It was pretty similar to Inferno I found, but much better IMO. So I don't hold that against it. I liked it's storyline also, and found the twist ending to be much better than Inferno's. To me, it's by far the best of the DTV films.

Deader was okay I thought, but I found it a little perplexing. I don't even know what it was that I found to be perplexing exactly, it just all didn't seem to come together well enough for me. I liked that an ancestor of Le Merchant was trying to regain control of the box though. A nice piece of continuity within the series.

I hated Hellworld for many reason. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they made it about killing horny teens which is not what Hellraiser is about at all. That was really off putting to me. Seeing Lance Henriksen is always good though. It had some good gore, but the whole Hellraiser website and game was just meh IMO. I didn't like that whole storyline.

[Alex DeLarge]

I admittedly am one of the fans who was unhappy with the lack of Pinhead in the later ones. I don't think he should be onscreen every five minutes, but only a few cameos per film is a little underwhelming for me. But, that's just me. I know he began with only a few appearances in the early films, but I would just like to see a little more of him.

But you, yourself, admit you liked the first one the best. They show up more in the DTVs than in the first movie! They were just trying to bring it back to the basics and work with the aspects that worked best in Hellraiser and Hellbound.

[Kane Lives]

I do like the first one best, more for the story it told than how long Pinhead was on screen.

I understand they were trying to go back to the series' roots, and can defineately respect that. I mean, most Horror franchises could benefit from that approach themselves. But for me, I wish they wouldn't handle Pinhead the same way with each new film. I'd like to see them mix up his amount of screentime once in a while. But, that's just me. I know there are split camps on how much of him they should show. I guess I fall in the middle.


Overall, I suppose it has to do with the quality of the story. I think some of the later stories could have used more Pinhead than others. As I mentioned, Hellseeker's lack of Pinhead didn't bother me at all. And I found the scenes that he was involved in to be well done, and probably just as well as if he had a Hell on Earth or Bloodline-type role in the film.

[Scarecrow]

I have mixed feelings on the Hellraiser films.


Bloodline had a good concept IMO. I'm not too familiar with what they cut, changed, and twisted around with it. I know it was originally intended to be different, but it came off more like Hellraiser III to me.


Then you really, REALLY should check out the shooting script: http://www.cenobite.com/library/index.htm

And see what, pretty much, give or take a few last mintue script changes, for budget or whatever, was actually filmed. It's staggering how different it is.


- Scarecrow

[The New Blood]

I really like thse movies, well atleast the first 3. I gotta see Bloodline again because I can't remember it. I don't even care about the other ones. I'm watching Hellbound right now. Its a great movie, but it would have been great if the battle between the cenobites and Channard was more elaborate. I also really wish they had not cut out the scene where the Chatterer gets modified. Does anyone know if there is a clip of that scene on the internet somewhere?

[freako104]

I should have mentioned, I felt Hellraiser II was better, I enjoyed it more especially the Labyrinth

[Scarecrow]

No Chatterer modification clip exists.

Nicolas Vince tells us it was filmed to an extent though its possible that like many of the other removed sequences, the effects were never completed.


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I still haven't seen Hellworld yet. I heard it's pretty bad, but I want to see it because i'm a completist. :)

The first 2 are great horror films. 1 and Hellbound are actually tied for me. I love them both equally. I love the whole horror-fantasy element of those. Hell on Earth was decent. It was more of a slasher. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE slashers, but Hellraiser wasn't meant to be that type of movie.

It's been a while since i've seen Bloodline. I didn't care for it that much. I think they tried to explain the whole legacy in too short of a time.

[freako104]

It isn't bad. It isn't as good as Bloodlines (IMO) and the first two HR movies. Still I enjoyed it

[Scarecrow]

Hellworld is a confused film, unsure whether its a proper entry or a New Nightmare type of movie. It's more New Nightmare really but still, the film falls apart at the slightest gust of wind. NO logic, just set pieces thrown together... terrible movie really.

As for Bloodline, well, it's timeline was butchered after all. I'm putting a full report on what happened and what was cut as we speak.

- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

From what i've heard, the Cenobites in Hellworld sort of orchestrate a party in order to collect souls? That definitely doesn't fit in with the classic Hellraiser story. So I guess in a way, Hellworld is the "New Nightmare" of the Hellraiser franchise.

[Scarecrow]

From what i've heard, the Cenobites in Hellworld sort of orchestrate a party in order to collect souls? That definitely doesn't fit in with the classic Hellraiser story. So I guess in a way, Hellworld is the "New Nightmare" of the Hellraiser franchise.

Not at all.

The Host (Lance) organises a party for fans of Hellraiser / The Hellwoirld online computer game. He does this for even more spoilerifc reasons. Anywya the peopel at the party have random encounters, lots of sex and get killed one by one.



- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

Not at all.

The Host (Lance) organises a party for fans of Hellraiser / The Hellwoirld online computer game. He does this for even more spoilerifc reasons. Anywya the peopel at the party have random encounters, lots of sex and get killed one by one.



- Scarecrow

Ah, I see. Well, even though it sounds craptacular, i'll still end up seeing it. I've seen all of them except this one.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

1RDiBjkne9I

Classic scene. :)

[Scarecrow]

Certainly.

And helps illustrate just WHY the uncut version is soooo much better than the cut down one.

Also, of course, makes clear how the detah of Channard is an accident. The lightning around Leviathan builds as the box is solved and goes nuts once its complete which is the exact point that Channard's death occurs.


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

You know what, it's been a long time since i've seen the cut version. Exactly how much did they cut from it? Just Channard's death?

I actually watched Bloodline yesterday. I still wouldn't say it's great, but it's SLIGHTLY better than the last time I watched. One thing I like about it is the fact that it retains the story from the previous films. They do try to explain too much in such a short time, though. :(

I also liked the Cenobites in this one. The scene where they show how the "Twin" Cenobite was created was pretty cool. :)

My ranking of it still wouldn't change. I don't think I posted mine yet, so here it is:

Hellraiser
Hellbound: Hellraiser II
Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth
Hellraiser: Bloodline
Hellraiser: Hellseeker
Hellraiser: Inferno
Hellraiser: Deader

Mine basically goes in the order the movies were released. I still haven't seen Hellworld yet. I'll get around to it one of these days......but i'm not really looking forward to it. :p

[Scarecrow]

Bloodline doesn't make any sens ein the butchered form, that's my main beef.

This extract from the original script WAS filmed. I have a rough cut with this scene playing out this way. It's TEN TIME what we get in the final version, and actually develops the plot of Pinhead vs Angelique. Comapre and contrast.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tOV9w99A7C0

In context: Pinhead and Angelique have already fought and Angelique has realised the building is BOTH a giant Lament Configuration AND a prototype Elysian Configuration.

INT. THE BUILDING, LOBBY NIGHT

John bursts into the lobby from a stairwell door and rushes over to the elevator.

A look of dread comes over him as he sees the elevator door banging constantly against the side of its doorjamb as if it is trying to open and something is wrong with the mechanism.

John runs to it... and it suddenly flies open with a terrifyingly LOUD NOISE.

John jumps in shock but moves further and looks in...

... and down. There is no cabin there, just a dizzying drop into blackness. Incredibly distant, but disturbing, SOUNDS echo up the shaft. Sounds of flame, machinery, and agony.

JOHN
No! Jack! Jack!!

He hears a sound behind him and turns – to see Jack...

... and Angelique, back in human form, her hands resting on Jack’s young shoulders! Her eyes are no longer seductive as they stare at John but cold and angry. Then she looks down at Hack and coos like a nightmare vision of dark motherhood.

ANGELIQUE
So young. So tender. So ripe.

JOHN
Get your hands off him!

ANGELIQUE
Get your hands on the console, toymaker. You have work to do.

TIME-CUT TO:

John at the lectern, Angelique nearby still holding Jack.

ANGELIQUE
My colleague told you what to do?

JOHN
Yes.

He’s working at the console, looking up at the patterns on the back wall panel, trying to find the infernal one.

ANGELIQUE
Don’t.

JOHN
What?

ANGELIQUE
Make the Elysian Configuration instead.

John, genuinely confused, looks at Angelique but, before she can elucidate, Pinhead appears at the far end of the lobby.

Pinhead is grinning in triumph. He walks towards them. As he reaches the centre, Angelique speaks to John.

ANGELIQUE
The toymaker’s design! The lights! I know they’re here.

John looks rapidly from her to the walls, to the corners, to the reflective points on the surfaces and then keys an entry into the console. His finger hovers over the “enter” key. He looks at her. Why should he do what she wants? She raises a hand toward Jack’s neck in threat.

ANGELIQUE
Do it!!

John hits the key.

LIGHT-BEAMS shoot out from points in the wall faces, jetting in toward the centre of the lobby!

A sudden wave of suspicion washes over Pinhead’s face.

The BEAMS meet, EXPLODING into a DAZZLING CORUSCATION!

Angelique, stepping well back to near the lectern and away from what’s happening, grins in double-cross victory.

Pinhead ROARS in anger and fear. Suddenly, he tips his head way back – and a CHAIN flies from out of his mouth, jetting up straight toward the ceiling!

The hooked chain anchors itself into the ceiling – and PINHEAD flies upward along it at incredible speed, like a spider sucking itself back up a web-strand!

ANGELIQUE
NOOOO!!!

Pinhead, fastened supernaturally to the ceiling like a humanoid insect, looks down...

... as the LIGHT-SCULPTURE from John’s simulation of Lemarchand’s cat’s-cradle bursts into being far below him!

Pinhead, snarling in angry revenge, shoots his head in various directions as if summoning supernatural aid...

... and a MULTITUDE OF CHAINS suddenly fly from low angles and wrap themselves around Angelique, pirouetting rapidly up her body to cocoon her!

Simultaneously, as in the simulation, the original beams go off and the light-sculpture is left free-floating.

Jack – almost literally squeezed from Angelique’s grasp as the chains fly upwards – is sent tumbling towards his father who grabs him protectively as...

Angelique is suddenly yanked off her feet and pilled inexorably toward the centre of the room and the luminescent cat’s-cradle.

From Pinhead’s POV, Angelique disappears beneath the light.

ANGELIQUE
It burns!! It burns!!!

John hugs Jack tightly to him.

JOHN
(to himself)
A few seconds is the best I ever got...

And, as if on cue, the cat’s-cradle winks out of existence.

From this angle, we see that Angelique hadn’t quite reached it and is lying still on the floor wrapped in the chains.

Pinhead lowers himself rapidly down and stalks toward John. As he passes Angelique, she raises her head and laughs hysterically as if driven made by her proximity to destruction.

PINHEAD
(to John)
You’re as dangerous as she said you were. No more games.

Pinhead flicks his head toward little Jack – and a hooked chain comes flying at the boy!

John launches himself forward, shoving Jack aside...

JOHN
Run, Jack! Run!!

... and taking his place as the chain snaps viciously through the air...

... and slams right through John’s throat, killing him instantly!

Jack is running across the lobby.

ANGELIQUE
The bloodline! Kill it!!

Pinhead swings round, getting Jack in his eye-line...

... and Jack is suddenly grasped by an arm and pulled tight to a cradling body!

It’s Bobbi – and she’s got the Box in her hand. Straightening up and shielding Jack, she holds the Box forward, moving it.

BOBBI
Go play with your dog, you bastard!

---------------------------------------


Sooooooooo much better!


- Scarecrow

[Spade]

Sounds a hell of a lot better.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

Scarecrow - Thanks for posting that. :) I agree that it's MUCH better than the final version.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow - Thanks for posting that. :) I agree that it's MUCH better than the final version.


And when you think about it, the original becomes more absurd. We get a terrible dubbe don "Open the Gateway for Me" to try and explain hr motivation but, in the end, her scared looks to Pinhead etc makes no sense unless we are to believe they are fighting over who get to open the bloody door!


- Scarecrow

[Joshg]

Is it just me? Or does the thing that pull off the top of Channard's head in Part II look like a strained penis? :O

[Scarecrow]

Is it just me? Or does the thing that pull off the top of Channard's head in Part II look like a strained penis? :O

Hey, that's the Penisaurus you're talking about! Gotta show some respect!


- Scarecrow

[Spade]

Yeah Scarecrow, that ending makes far more sense. Reading that makes me dislike the real ending even more.

Hey, that's the Penisaurus you're talking about! Gotta show some respect!


- Scarecrow

All should bow down to Penisaurus :bow:.

[Scarecrow]

Here's the original ending in script form, the version I have on bootleg is a slightly cut down version as its' from the first attempt to re-edit the film after the studio complained. This is what was made and you wer emeant to see:

NOTES: A few subtle changes, mainly Corrine is renamed as Rimmer in the final film and the death of the Chatterbeast was altered due to budget. Note the Siamese-Twin scenme ends before the death, this is due to this being the second death by this method. The first character was cut at shooting for budget reasons.

---------------------------------------

INT. HOLDING PEN, MINOS

... into the Pen. Suppressing a shudder at the CORPSE of Parker, he scans the area...

... and sees the Box. He picks it up, turns to leave...

... and sees Angelique in the blasted doorway!

EDWARDS
Oh no...

Angelique walks into the Pen – and the Siamese-Twin follows.

Edwards looks from them down to the Box in his hand.

EDWARDS
He... he told me what to do.

Angelique’s face creases in contemplation as she looks at the man. She thinks she’s got his number.

ANGELIQUE
Please. Go ahead. If you think it will do any good.

Edwards runs his fingers listlessly over the Box. He presses at it a few times as if looking for hidden buttons. Nothing. His arms drop hopelessly and he starts to sob.

EDWARDS
It’s... a box. It’s just a box.

He lifts it and flings it half-heartedly at Angelique.

Her hand rises and catches it expertly.

ANGELIQUE
Thank God for men of reason. (to the Siamese-Twin) Finish it.

She turns and walks away, not even watching as Edwards falls to his knees sobbing in fear.

The Siamese-Twin towers over him and SPLITS.

TWIN 1/TWIN 2
I cannot bear to be apart from my brother...

CUT TO:

INT. FLIGHT-DECK, MINOS

The only sounds in the flight-deck are the hum of the mechanisms and the sound of Paul’s tense breathing.

And then there’s another sound...

The sound of demonic feet approaching.

Paul looks up from the console. Angelique has entered, holding the Box. Their eyes lock, each recognising and acknowledging their bizarre history.

ANGELIQUE
Building bigger toys than ever.

PAUL
The Minos is no toy. It’s...

ANGELIQUE
I know what it is. Don’t use it. I saw your room. The past means as much to you as it means to me. We can reclaim it. Together.

Paul looks at her. For a second, the same magic that worked on John works on him and he has a FLASH-IMAGE of her human self in 18th century costume. Beautiful. Alluring.

He blinks it away. His face sets grimly.

PAUL
Not this time, Princess.

Disappointed rage crosses her face. Before she can answer, they are no longer alone. Pinhead and the Siamese-Twin have entered.

The DARKNESS comes with Pinhead and then changes into BLUE LIGHT diffusing in from various angles as if the doors to Hell are open. Simultaneously, HOWLING WINDS begin to roar through the room, necessitating raised voices.

Pinhead looks at Paul standing behind the console in the light from the two overhead angle-poises.

PINHEAD
How the centuries pass. I’ve thought often, down those long days, of the pleasures we have prepared for you.

PAUL
Pleasures?

PINHEAD
In a manner of speaking. Your ancestors have been there before you. The Labyrinth still rings with the echoes of their agony – Lullabyes for the Children of the Worm.

Paul looks at the monitors. Two more satellites are showing the LOCKED signal.

CUT TO:

INT. SATELLITE-CONTOL, MINOS

Corinne feverishly types in co-ordinates and watches the monitors click one by one into the LOCKED position.

Finally, the words ALL SATELLITES ALIGNED show on the master-monitor.

Corinne sits back and lets out a long slow sigh.

CORINNE
Alright girl. You passed the science exam. Now let’s see how you do at track.

She exits the room...

INT. CORRIDOR, MINOS (CONT.)

... and out into a corridor. And starts running. Fast.

INT. FLIGHT-DECK, MINOS

Paul’s eyes register the ALL SATELLITES ALIGNED signal. He shows no relief or excitement. Good poker player.

PAUL
It’s over now. It ends with me.

PINHEAD
I think not. Your bloodline may end but the game goes on forever. Four hundred years your family has played. A long time? No. The blink of a suppurating eye to He Who Dwells In The Deep.

PAUL
The game may go on forever but you won’t be there to play it.

ANGELIQUE
Fly us back to your world, toymaker. No end of games there.

PAUL
I’m afraid I can’t do that.

ANGELIQUE
Want to play here? Well, you won’t be playing with this.

She holds out the Box. Pinhead smiles. Paul doesn’t.

PINHEAD
Good. The woman?

ANGELIQUE
A gift to our chattering friend. You know how fond he is of female meat.

INT. CORRIDOR, MINOS

Corinne reaches a T-junction. She turns left into...

INT. LONG CORRIDOR, MINOS (CONT.)

... the longest corridor we’ve seen yet. It stretches at least a hundred yards on either side of the T-junction.

Just before renewing her run, Corinne looks down the other stretch. A hundred yards of emptiness...

But not for long. Appearing suddenly at the far end comes the Dog-Beast, careering towards her down the corridor.

CORINNE
Oh my God...

Corinne wastes a precious second staring at it, her jaw open in horrified shock. Then she turns and runs for her life.

And the Dog-beast runs for it too.

It’s nightmare-fast, seeming to gain thirty yards for every ten that Corinne covers. Within a few seconds of the chase stating, it’s almost halved the distance between them.

Not wanting to – and hardly able to afford to – Corinne nevertheless can’t resist looking back over her shoulder.

She registers how, as the creature passes, the walls behind it become a nightmare of darkness and despair.

CORINNE
(to herself)
Run. Run!!

And she does. Panting, sweating, heart pounding, she runs.

The demon pursues her vigorously and tirelessly, gaining yard by yard as it speeds furiously down the corridor.

Gasping with exertion, Corrinne stares desperately ahead of her at the door she’s heading to. It seems closer...

CORRINNE
Come on! Come on!

She redoubles her effort...

... and suddenly she trips, cartwheeling to the floor.

As if sensing her sudden weakness, the monster behind her HOWLS in infernal delight and streaks forward even faster.

Corrinne scrambles to her feet, runs on, and suddenly she’s there. She bursts through the door...

INT. ENTRY BAY/ESCAPE VEHICLE PAD, MINOS (CONT.)

... and tumbles into the entry bay.

Immediately ahead of her a small single-person egg-shaped ESCAPE POD sits on a pad beyond the open station-side door of an airlock.

Corinne rushes to the pod, slams her hand on the release catch of the door, ad clambers in.

INSIDE POD –

It ain’t built for luxury; There’s a contoured body panel into which Corinne stands, a control panel in front of her, a round window and that’s it. On the control panel is a sticker marked AIRLOCK REMOTE and beneath it two toggle switches, one marked INTERNAL which is clicked to the OPEN position and one marked EXTERNAL which is clicked to CLOSED.

Corinne flicks the INTERNAL to CLOSED.

IN THE ENTRY BAY –

The airlock behind the pod begins to close...

But simultaneously the doors to the bay burst open and the Dog-Beast leaps into the room!

INSIDE POD –

Corinne looks at the slowly-closing airlock door and at the far from slow Monster rushing toward her.

CORINNE
No... No...

The door’s not going to close in time. She’s fucked. She groans... and then thinks of something.

She slams forward the switch that says BRAKE and then hits the one that says IGNITION...

IN THE ENTRY BAY –

A massive THRUST OF JET-PROPELLED FLAME slams out of the back of the stationary pod, blasting the Beast back across the room!

The jet-flame is cut in time to allow the airlock door to close without being melted.

IN THE AIRLOCK –

The outer airlock door slides open.

The ignition starts again...

EXT. MINOS, DEEP SPACE (CONT.)

A beat of stillness...

... and then the egg-shaped Pod comes spinning wildly toward camera. Corinne is safe.

INT. FLIGHT-DECK, MINOS

Paul isn’t. CLOSE on his face, stiff with tension.

PULL BACK to reveal why –

The viciously-barbed tips of several of Hell’s Hooked Chains are hovering inches from his face and body, taut and swaying like steel King Cobras waiting to strike!

A cruel smile illuminates Pinhead’s face as he stares at Paul.

Paul looks at another monitor providing entry-bay date. The words POD-LAUNCH are flashing. He signs in relief – and then looks up at Pinhead and Angelique.

PAUL
It didn’t get her. She’s free. She’s safe.

PINHEAD
Let’s see how much of a comfort that is to you when the maggots are eating your eyes. From the inside.

Paul’s eyes suddenly become fixed and cold. Like gunfighters in a spaghetti western, Paul and Pinhead stare at each other.

PAUL
Let’s play.

His fingers dive at the buttons...

... but Pinhead’s so much faster – and the hooked chains jet forward viciously to pierce Paul’s body and face...

... and Paul just WINKS OUT of existence, disappearing down to a white dot like a turned-off TV. Or a cancelled hologram.

ANGELIQUE
What?

Paul steps out from another part of the room entirely. He has the remote-control in his hand.

PAUL
Hologram. All done with mirrors. Like this.

His finger hits a button on the remote... and we CUT TO:

EXT. MINOS, DEEP SPACE

The Minos floats against the star-studded blackness.

Suddenly, VAST BEAMS OF LIGHT burst from all six satellites!

Like Lemarchand’s design, like John’s miniature version, the beams meet and EXPLODE into a HUGE CORUSCATING CAT’S CRADLE completely encircling the Minos, dwarving even that vast structure in an awesome and dazzling light-show.

INT. FLIGHT-DECK, MINOS

Pinhead, Angelique, and the Siamese-twin all stagger as if suddenly weakened dreadfully. The Box falls to the ground from Angelique’s slackened grasp.

PINHEAD
NOOOO!!!

He raises his hands as if to summon chains or other tools...

... and nothing happens.

EXT. MINOS, DEEP SPACE

The show gets even bigger. As if reality can’t cope with the massive Cat’s-Cradle, a HUGE STORM IN SPACE erupts around the Minos, a maelstrom of roiling gases and impossible lightning.

The Cat’s-Cradle of light suddenly sends out a LIGHT BEAM into the space behind it. The Beam smashes into a mass of bubbling gaseous matter, WHITES-OUT briefly...

... and is replaced by an area of intense blackness, a corona og gaseous matter swirling about its edges, defining its position.

The nebulous swirl seems to be disappearing constantly into the unrelieved blackness of the centre. It is as if the Cat’s-Cradle has sundered reality, has created an astronomical anomaly. A place where matter disappears.

INT. FLIGHT-DECK, MINOS

Pinhead looks over at Paul, horror-struck

PINHEAD
What have you done?! What is it?!

PAUL
Endgame, demon.

Angelique screams.

EXT. DEEP SPACE

The Minos suddenly judders within the Cat’s-cradle and begins to hurtle toward its furthest point – the swirling black reality-warp!

INT. FLIGHT DECK, MINOS

Pinhead ROARS at Paul – and from his open mouth a CHAIN flies toward Paul...

... and hooks into his chest. Paul grunts in pain... But then grasps the chain, yanks it, and pulls Pinhead toward him!

The two enemies grasp each others arms, wrestling and fighting, somehow keeping their balance in the wildly-careering deck when Angelique and the Siamese-Twin are knocked helpless to the floor. Pinhead and Paul scream to be heard in the cacophony.

PINHEAD
In Hell, I’ll teach every one of your nerve-endings to scream separately!

PAUL
You still don’t get it? It’s over! Finally, irrevocably over!!

EXT. DEEP SPACE

The Minos is now careering toward the reality-warp at an incredibly increased speed.

And suddenly, within the Cat’s-Cradle and almost within the irresistible blackness, the Minos begins to break apart, unable to withstand the terrible pressures!

INT. FLIGHT DECK, MINOS

A SMASH-CUT to Paul and Pinhead as, all around them, the deck disintegrates. A frozen second for Paul’s last line...

PAUL
Welcome to Oblivion.

EXT. DEEP SPACE

... and the, just as it disappears into the gaping maw of the warp, Minos comes apart completely in a massive explosion!

THROUGH THE WARP/PSYCHEDELIC SPACE (BLUE SCREEN)

The MONTAGE BACKGROUND is a whirling insanity of images: spiralling patterns; the birth of planets; exploding supernovae; volcanic eruptions; the works.

Asteroid DEBRIS spins wildly in the foreground, piece after piece being whirled away until finally we see the Box left alone above the background – the perspectives of which all sell the idea that it is constantly falling even though its image size remains constant.

Slowly, the camera TRACKS IN on the Box until the black circle that dominates one of its faces FILLS THE SCREEN.

And then, without quite realising when it changed, we realise we are tracking OUT, not in...

... moving through an EXTREME CLOSE UP of the Box and continuing on out...

INT. LEMARCHAND’S WORKROOM NEARLY MIDNIGHT

... and we see the Box is resting on the hand of Phillip Lemarchand in his workshop in 18th century France.

The door opens and Genevieve enters in her nightdress.

GENEVIEVE
Is it done?

LEMARCHAND
Done!

CUT TO BLACK

RUN CREDITS

-----------------------------------------------

- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

Yeah, that's WAY better than the crap ending we got. :cry:

[Scarecrow]

Well, anyone interested in the full script can find it here: http://www.cenobite.com/library/index.htm

If you do read it, be cool to hear your thoughts. Copies I have have most of these scenes, or at least parts of them, and though the effects aren't finished it still seems to much cooler. Certainly love Siamese having dialogue. Its creepy.


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

HAPPY 20th BIRTHDAY to HELLRAISER!!!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/ScarecrowCenobite/Life-bringer/HellAltered.jpg


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I watched Hellraiser: Inferno last night on cable and enjoyed it. Despite Pinhead not being in it much I found it intriguing and genuinely disturbing and creepy in parts, and it works as a psychological thriller. I still have to see Hellbound.

[Scarecrow]

Pinhead's still in Inferno more than Parts 1 and 2. :p

But glad you liked it, it's a great thriller and has some great imagery. The Under-the-skin massage is one of the most erotic things in any of the films and is wonderful in its twistedness.


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

Grave - Hellbound is simply amazing. You're going to enjoy the hell out of it. :)

[Jigsaw]

I can't find Hellbound for rent anywhere near me, and I refuse to watch it when networks like FX and AMC show it since they probably cut out a lot of the violence, but next time it's on TV I just might catch it.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

If it doesn't bother you to purchase movies before seeing them, you can just do that. You can easily find Hellbound in stores....even at Best Buy. And it's the uncut version too. :)

[Jigsaw]

I just might purchase it when I see it, and if I don't like it I could always pawn it off or return it as long as I have the receipt.

[Scarecrow]

Anything's better than seeing a butcherd version... I dread to imagine what they'd do, espcially to a certain scene...

"Get them off meeee!"

- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

That's why I haven't bothered seeing it when it airs on television. I've seen the razor/maggot scene from Hellbound online and to edit it for television broadcast, you would pretty much have to remove the entire scene.

[The Dream Master]

Jigsaw, if you don't have the first film either, there's a two-pack with the first two films available, too.

[Scarecrow]

Or if you have a multi-region DVD player there's the UK Hellraiser 1-3 Box set which has uncut versions of all three films. Part 3 has the deleted scenes reinstated, noton the US edition, and a commentary by Doug Bradley.


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Jigsaw, if you don't have the first film either, there's a two-pack with the first two films available, too.


I know of that two-pack. I think I'll pass it up though, seeing as a new DVD of the first film is on the way, am I correct?

[The Heat]

I know of that two-pack. I think I'll pass it up though, seeing as a new DVD of the first film is on the way, am I correct?
Yes. At the end of October, the 20th Anniversary Hellraiser DVD is being released. But if you really want Part 2, the two-pack could be the way to go. Good price for both flicks, you'd just be missing out on some special features.

[Jigsaw]

Hellbound is also available seperately, isn't it?

[The Heat]

Hellbound is also available seperately, isn't it?
Yeah, but you'll be spending more for two separate DVD's than you would for the 2-pack. Unless you're a big fan of special features, which would make it worth it. Just trying to give you some options. :D

[Jigsaw]

The special features are always a bonus for me, so I'm opting for the 20th anniversary DVD of the first film. Does the two-pack have any additional special features that the new DVD will be omitting?

[The Heat]

The special features are always a bonus for me, so I'm opting for the 20th anniversary DVD of the first film. Does the two-pack have any additional special features that the new DVD will be omitting?
Not sure. Here's the two-pack description (it has a couple bonus features):

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1553730&skuId=4812377&type=product&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=4812377

And here's the 20th Anniversary specs:

http://www.horror-movies.ca/horror_9214.html

You can mix-and-match and see.

[Jigsaw]

Looks like the 20th Anniversary has what was on the previous disc plus several new features. I think I'll get the 20th Anniversary, and get Hellbound seperately. Plus I'm sure the seperate Hellbound DVD can probably be purchased for a good price if you look at the right sellers.

[The Heat]

Probably. I loaned my two-pack to my brother in South Carolina, and he's pretty much stolen it. So I'm going to have to buy them both again, too.

[Jigsaw]

I looked on Deep Discount DVD and the seperate unrated DVD of Hellbound is available there for only $9.04.

[Scarecrow]

Might as well check out the region 2 sets extras which, at the time, had the most complete package available bringig togfether extras from every release and adding new ones. Also available in a Lament box set.

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/181002/Hellraiser-Ultimate-Collection-Box-Set/Product.html


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Another reason for me to get a region-free DVD player. Between that and the Phantasm sphere set.

[Scarecrow]

It's certainly tricky, if the 20th IS a new commentary then the first film now has THREE. And the 3-set doens't have the same extras as the new release though their is over-lap. I'm getting the new one at any rate but then I'm about as big a fan as you can find and double dipping is a way of life... :p

End of the day, the films the thing and Hellbound is well worth getting.


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Whenever I find Hellbound for purchase anywhere I'll pick it up and watch it. I've got to get more into the Hellraiser series anyway.

[Scarecrow]

What is the cure for cancer? The cure for death itself? The answer... is immortality. By opening the box, by giving you life to the Cenobites, you become immortal.

It's Time to Play.


:p

- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Hehe :D

It'd be interesting to see how Pinhead would interact with Jigsaw and/or Amanda. He'd probably get off on being in their traps, seeing as he relishes pain and torment.

[Scarecrow]

I think Jigsaw's moralising streak would possibly irritate Pinhead, as much as he can be. A great mind being wasted on "punishing" those who have led a bad life, but he'd see potential. I think Amanda would be a far more interesting prospect, with her more murderous tendancies and her self-harming and self-destructive attitudes. Amanda would probably be Cenobite-worthy but Jigsaw could go either way, depending on whether the Cenobites cna help him to look past such moral judgements. :p

- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Good points made on all counts. It'd be interesting to see how Jigsaw and Amanda would turn out as Cenobites. I could John being mutilated to look like Billy The Puppet (complete with an open brain surgery incision wound and visible cancer tumor) while Amanda would probably have her jaws ripped open by the Jaw Splitter (which she'd be wearing) along with her wrists slit open and held back by razors and syringes sticking out of her arms.

[Scarecrow]

I'd probably avoid the morew gimmicy HR3-style Cenobites BUT I think Jigsaw's engineering skills would play a part and he'd have a more industrial look. The brain surgey would be a cool visual, I'd imagine his head held open by a contraption simialr to his designs with made an almost mechanical exo-skeleton working in and out of his flesh and leather.

For Amanda, the jaw-trap might be a bit bulky but I think a slimmed down version of what you say would be liekly, just more subtle. For instance, her jaw ripped off and some components of metal there but not the whole thing. Her wrists held open by razor blades, yeah, ut instea dof whole syringes, just the needles stuck horizontal all up her arm and through her breasts.

Maybe I'll see if anyone can draw these? :P Have an excellent Myer-sCenobite somehwere.


- Scarecow

[Jigsaw]

Those both sound really cool. I could see those happening if Jigsaw and/or Amanda ever became Cenobites.

[Scarecrow]

So, outy of interest, which of the Hellraiser films have you actually seen and what were your views on them? :)


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I've seen HR1, Hell On Earth, Bloodline, Inferno and Hellseeker. I remember liking HR1and Bloodline and Hell On Earth and Hellseeker are both decent. I liked Inferno quite a bit, better than I expected. Of the ones I've seen so far, I remember enjoying Bloodline the most.

[Scarecrow]

I should probably bite my tongue at this point then. :p

Somethign about the subject of Bloodline just makes we wanna place the producers in Jigsaw-style traps until they learn not to screw with directors... :p


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

It's been a pretty long while since I last saw Bloodline, I've got to see it again at some point to see how I'd feel about it then.

Also, how are Hellworld and Deader? Most reviews for both of them have been kind of negative, but I'll see approaching the whole series with an open mind.

[Scarecrow]

For my thoughts and a lot of info on the studio of butchering I'd suggest gong back over this thread. Certainly pages 3-5 in particualr have script extracts compared to the finished scene. One need only stare at the finished cut of Bloodlien to notice how it falls apart.

As for Deader, I think it's the best sequel since the first two with a great villain though I guess I can see why others odn't like it (they're nuts :p ). Hellworld is just... ick. Not even a proper sequel, it's a confused New Nightmare style film except it can't quite decide how far to take that. It's just.... depressing as it had a LOT of potential and a lot of nice nods to the fans.

The Complete Hellraiser Guide: http://www.cenobite.com/encyc/index.htm


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I've been to that site many times before and still visit it occasionally. I too have heard about the changes and interference that happened with Bloodline. Some studios totally have no respect for a director's or writer's vision.

[francesco]

do u know anything about the remake???:)

[Scarecrow]

Well, if you're interested in the details and read the original script of what actually filmed (give or take the odd moment and character name / removal), the shhoting script is linked from one of my posts in this thread. Well worth a look, as well as checking out the alternative work print.

Workprint: http://stage6.divx.com/Hellraiser-Fans/video/1626239/Hellraiser-Bloodline-Workprint

This is NOT the original version. It's one of the first attempts to re-cut the film to make the studio happy whose main demand was to get to Pinhead quicker. A lot of unfinished effects ut contains the original ending and a lot of unused footage, alberit cut down stuff.

Right, I'm off to Uni now. :p

- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that later :)

See you later, I'll be heading off to bed pretty soon myself.

[Scarecrow]

The Vault (http://www.jorgezaffino.com/thevault1.html)

The entire comic story from Clive Barker's Hellraiser Book 2 can be found online on the artists web page, so anyone interested, check it out!

Gives a good insight into Hellraiser beyond Pinhead and the usual concepts of what Hellraiser is.

- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I'll check that out sometime.

[Scarecrow]

Anyone get round to reading it? Be interesting to see what people think who haven't had much experience of Hellraiser outside the films in any way.

- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I watched Inferno today. It wasn't QUITE as bad as I remember it. I still don't think it was great, but it was semi-decent, actually. I really liked the visuals in it. The story was actually pretty good too.

[Scarecrow]

Have to ask then, what WASN'T good about it? :p


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

Well, it really was more of a "detective thriller" than a horror movie. It just didn't feel like a Hellraiser film. I prefer the 1st two, because I dig the mix of horror and fantasy they portrayed. Inferno could have easily worked as a completely different film, without the Hellraiser moniker.

[Scarecrow]

Just wondered. It just seems the "good" aspects you mentioned were on plot and character and only negative you see to suggest are that its different from something else. But, that said, I can't say I think it's any more different than Part 3 is to the original. Kind of easy to say the original is a gothic-drama compared to part 3's slasher flick which also could have existed without the Hellraiser moniker (in fact try replacing "Pinhead" with "Djinn" and see how little difference is made).

Ultimately I guess it depends on what makes a Hellraiser film. Inferno had the boxes, Cenobites, themes of desire and human corruption all of which are strong elements of the first two (not so much 3 and 4). It certaily has more of these thigns than some of the comics (such as Dead Man's Hand, featuring no Cenobites).

If a film can be praised for character and plot that's great but seems a shame to say it's a negative aspect for it to be different to other entries in a long running series, certainly when we can see with F13th and Halloween has forumla can grown very stale.


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

The 20th Anniversary Edition DVD of Hellraiser is coming out Oct. 23rd

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ik4qn3%2BdL._SS500_.jpg

Special Features:

- a commentary by Clive Barker and star Ashley Lawrence(moderated by screenwriter Peter Atkins)
- a "Hellraiser: Ressurection" featurette
- a "Mr. Cotton, I Presume?" interview with star Andrew Robinson
- an "Actress From Hell" interview with Ashley Lawrence
- an "Under the Skin: Doug Bradley on Hellraiser"
- a "Hellcomposer" interview with Christopher Young
- a Poster & still gallery
- a number of TV & radio spots
- the Full Hellraiser screenplay

[The Dream Master]

That'd look a lot better if it had a Blu-ray banner at the top. :p

[Scarecrow]

It's a difficult debate. Do I buy this for the new commentary and Ashley Lawrence, Andrew Robinson and Christoher Young interviews or stay with the three copies I already have with all the other features.... I alreayd have TWO commentaries, do I need another? :p


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

French Friday has started the series. If he's interested, half-way up this page is a link to one of the Hellraiser comics. If he fancies reading it, it was released between Parts 2 and 3 so that's the time to read it.

Also, figured, it was a good point to re-post some of the expanded mythology notes and so forth that was lost from the old forum.

I think the main thing is Hell is NOT Hell. Not in a true, Christian sense. Though this gets confused by some writers but the early films and comics make it clear. This isn't a Christian Universe, this is its own NEW and ORIGINAL mythology. In fact, the comics make it clear, that Leviathan (The God and ruler of Hell) manipulated the creation of many religions for its own purposes.

You don't go to Hell when you die. Know one knows what exacty happens but the generally idea is "when you're dead, you're f~'ing dead". Some say it gets changed, but for the msot part the rule is stuck too and fannon has worked out the errors. The cenobites take your entire body to Hell where you are eternally tortured, not because your good or bad, but because they see your desires and wnat to explore pleasure and pain.

So, to get to Hell you solve a puzzle (with the right desire) and summon the Cenobites who take you to Leviathan's realm foreternal torture. If you die, they don't get you, you don't go to Heaven or Hell, you just die. In Hell you are immortal and will suffer forever.

I think that's the basics. :p


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

For a detailed list of all of the Hellraiser story see The Hellraiser Encyclopaedia (http://www.cenobite.com/encyc/index.htm).

Also, the Nightbreed film and comics and the original Rawhead Rex story are all partof the same continuity though these aren't included on THW yet.

Also, for fans wanting the latest updates and news, THW now has a myspage page (http://www.myspace.com/hellboundweb) so feel free to add us!


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I watched Hellbound on AMC the other day, just for the hell of it. WOW! So much is cut it's not even funny. :( That's expected on those channels, though.

[Scarecrow]

I really dread to think what they would remove. :(

Btw, figure this is the place for it: Anyone interested in winning Hellraiser comics, free postage included?

Then check out The Hellbound Web Banner Contest (http://www.cenobite.com/contest/07/index.htm)

Good luck to anyone entering!


- Scarecrow

[El Rooto]

I've only seen the first three. I enjoyed them all. The first was probably my favorite.

[Ron]

I believe the remake is slated for a September 2008 release.

[The Dream Master]

September 5th, to be exact, I believe.

[Scarecrow]

Although, as ever, we've had no further reports or confirmations so it's somewhat up in the air at the moment.

- Scarecrow

[Voo-doo]

I've heard that it was confirmed that the remake will be released in September.

[Lance Lives]

I love the first two films in this series. Hellbound might be my favorite. I can claim to have seen all of them, but not many times. I personally kinda liked Bloodline, but apparently there was trouble in the making that I need to go back and read about. I've only seen Hell on Earth once and I really didn't like it. Inferno was my favorite of the DTV sequels though, and I must agree that Hellworld sucked.

[nottidelterrore]

I love the first two films in this series. Hellbound might be my favorite. I can claim to have seen all of them, but not many times. I personally kinda liked Bloodline, but apparently there was trouble in the making that I need to go back and read about. I've only seen Hell on Earth once and I really didn't like it. Inferno was my favorite of the DTV sequels though, and I must agree that Hellworld sucked.

Hellbound is my favourite. I've only seen it & the first one but am wanting to see the other sequels just so I can say that I've seen all of the movies. And perhaps I may like some of 'em.

[Scarecrow]

I love the first two films in this series. Hellbound might be my favorite. I can claim to have seen all of them, but not many times. I personally kinda liked Bloodline, but apparently there was trouble in the making that I need to go back and read about. I've only seen Hell on Earth once and I really didn't like it. Inferno was my favorite of the DTV sequels though, and I must agree that Hellworld sucked.

Apparently? Dude the trouble makes the Halloween 6 versions look easy and identical. Never has a film been quite so butchered... right down to the horrible dubbing on Angelique's original very sexy french accent...

- Scarecrow

[Kane Lives]

Out of the DTV Sequels, I enjoyed Hellseeker the most.

I wasn't a big fan of Deader upon its release, and it's still not one of my favorites in the series; but when comparing it to Inferno and Hellworld, I can appreciate it.

[Ron]

I really hated Hellworld because i'm not into internet horror.

[Lance Lives]

Apparently? Dude the trouble makes the Halloween 6 versions look easy and identical. Never has a film been quite so butchered... right down to the horrible dubbing on Angelique's original very sexy french accent...

- Scarecrow

How do go about seeing the alternates? I have dail-up so I'm a bit hindered, but interested for sure. Just to display how behind I am on this entry in the series, I honestly thought it was released DTV until I wiki-ed it yesterday. Gotta say, the poster they have there is way better than the VHS box art.

[Scarecrow]

You can't, really. there's a work print online, one of the FOUR different re-edits they attempted to do to keep the studio happy until they gave up and Dimension brought in Joe Chappel.

The closets you can really get is to take the time to read the original script: http://www.cenobite.com/library/hr4-95----.pdf

This is what Atkins, Barker and Yagher intended, this is what was filmed. Only VERY minor changes were made to this (the most being in the future segment, Paul was always alone when it came to shooting).

The work print is still heavily cut but has pretty much the whole Future story, just with parts of scenes rather than whole scenes cut. It also shows a lot of the present was pretty much done. We also get a lot more of the Past although sadly that's the section that STILL misses the most.

- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I thought Inferno was the least bad of the DTV sequels. I really only like the first 2. Hell on Earth is decent IMO. It starts off way to slow, but when it picks up it's pretty entertaining.

[Scarecrow]

Really? hell On earth starts bettewr than it ends IMO. Once Pinhead is unleashed it all falls apart in manic laughter, ott cheesey gore and lame-ass pseudo-Cenobites.


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

Hell On Earth was a straight up slasher with a ridiculously large body count.

[Scarecrow]

On the other hand its a far superior slasher in many ways with an interesting plot and a great character in Elliot Spenser. As a Hellraiser film it's disappointing but as a horror slasher it's above the standard I'd say. Mainly I think it's the direction that REALLY lets it down.

- Scarecrow

[Ron]

Does anyone know how many Hellraisers were released theatrically. I could probably look it up, but I figured someone here would know.

[El Rooto]

Four of them.

[Ron]

thanks mm, I knew someone would have the answer promptly:)

[Scarecrow]

Although in some countries the fourth didn't make it to cinemas. ;) It's a shame really, Deader deserved a cinema release and had it had a bit more money to clean up effects it would have been stunning on the big screen.


- Scarecrow

[Lance Lives]

So did Bloodline make it to the cinemas in the States?

[Ron]

I would say yes,but I may be eating those words..

[Scarecrow]

It did, it was the last one too, of course. A shame as 3 of the 4 later sequels deserved it far more than the mess that was Bloodline.

- Scarecrow

[nottidelterrore]

I finally found a copy of Hellraiser III today. It's an "unauthorized release" from Top Ten Media. The quality is a bit shitty but it was only $3 so I can't complain.

Is it true that the region 2 UK version is uncut? If so, I'll need to get a copy.

[Scarecrow]

I finally found a copy of Hellraiser III today. It's an "unauthorized release" from Top Ten Media. The quality is a bit shitty but it was only $3 so I can't complain.

Is it true that the region 2 UK version is uncut? If so, I'll need to get a copy.

yes. The uncut moments are slightly inferior quality but hey, it lets you tell which bits are new. :p But yeah, fully uncut. With commentary, interviews etc.


- Scarecrow

[French Friday]

Just wanted to say I watched the first three Hellraiser during the christmas holidays, and now I'm just waiting for 4-8 I just can't find anywhere in R2 with english subtitles. The search continues...

Anyway, I love the fact torture was just a plot point but not the centerpoint of the movies. Not torture porn. I could rewatch them.

I like the mythology for now. I'm waiting for 4-8 to explain/approve my own theory but I just want to say there's too much christian references in 1-3, with all these crosses and icons everywhere, to just say this is a different hell than the christian hell. Well, in my "in the works" theory, this wouldn't be exactly christian hell but greek hell, the one separated in multiple areas, some being like the christian heaven and some others like the christian hell. Anyway, this would be undoubtely a part of hell with hell as in "kingdom of the dead". So not so different of the common use of the word "hell". But I'll develop later, after 8.

I also think H3 is a perfect sequel to H1-2, just the logical step to resurrect Pinhead after the ending of H2. Something was needed to make him comeback, and H3 is just that the story of his return, with "Evil Pinhead" vs the good guy he was before, I forgot the name, and then, at the end, the fusion of both spirits, meaning the return of the real Pinhead of 1/2. And that's why Pinhead is more a slasher in this one, simply because he's just the evil part of the character seen in 1/2.

That's all for now, I hope to watch 4-8 the soonest as possible. It's clearly a series I want to follow and study (especially now I'm becoming tired of Halloween, I need a new franchise to study !)

I haven't read the "HR 2.5" comics but plan to do it soon.

[Scarecrow]

the comics make the nature of Hell clearer. But the idea isn't of a Christan Hell at all. of course theirs imagery as people believe in religion. But Pinhead mocks it, even destroying a Church.

Leviathan, as you saw, rules "Hell" which is a Labyrinth. You don't go to "Hell" by dying but by siolving boxes. It's a dimension of immense pleasure and experience. Leviathan is the God of Hell, Satan etc does not exist. The comics go a lot more into the mythology of Hellraiser.

It was never intended as to be using someone else mythology. Barker was creating his OWN mythology, his OWN story. As you say, theres the Christian story and the Greek story... the Hellraiser Universe is its OWN story.

Afterall, the word "Hell" isn't used until Part 2 but that's how we understand it. The comics use Hell and the Labyrinth as the same thing. They also show how Leviathan invented religion to create enticement and order.

It's a vast mythology afterall, and it's unique because of its own story.

Bloodline will be the tricky one as the studios butchered the film and cut it up. The Bloodline that exists is now what Barker or Peter Atkins wanted and heavily contradicts the earlier comics and shows what is essentially a "false" history of the box. At least the final cut is in the form of a flashback story and so we can assume Paul simply had his facts wrong.

- Scarecrow

[Ron]

i always felt that Bloodlines was very lacking in all areas and seemed to drag on forever.

[French Friday]

the comics make the nature of Hell clearer. But the idea isn't of a Christan Hell at all. of course theirs imagery as people believe in religion. But Pinhead mocks it, even destroying a Church.

Just a comment before going deeper : If Barker didn't want people to believe he was talking about THE hell, 1) he shouldn't have called his movie "hell"raiser, and 2) he shouldn't have put as many christian religious imagery everywhere in the first movie, giving us a "link".


Leviathan, as you saw, rules "Hell" which is a Labyrinth. You don't go to "Hell" by dying but by siolving boxes. It's a dimension of immense pleasure and experience. Leviathan is the God of Hell, Satan etc does not exist. The comics go a lot more into the mythology of Hellraiser.

It was never intended as to be using someone else mythology. Barker was creating his OWN mythology, his OWN story. As you say, theres the Christian story and the Greek story... the Hellraiser Universe is its OWN story.

Afterall, the word "Hell" isn't used until Part 2 but that's how we understand it. The comics use Hell and the Labyrinth as the same thing. They also show how Leviathan invented religion to create enticement and order.

It's a vast mythology afterall, and it's unique because of its own story.

I knew you would say that !

Let me made some development :

Well, first, if you know greek myths, you should know you didn't need to be dead to go in there (Orpheus is one of the examples). There are many doors to greek hell. You can go there and out of there alive. Also, I take Christian hell (and heaven) as just a little part of greek hell, as both aren't really contradictory to each other, just a question of names and, well, religious stuff, but the main principles are the same (heaven, hell, purgatory...).

Second, people die in the Hellraiser universe, so there's obviously something where the dead go. It's not "there's the labyrinth, Leviathan, the box, the pleasure, and nothing else". So what I want to find is the way to link both "hell" together. The movie is called "hell"raiser, so I find obvious the labyrinth is linked to the hell we know (= world of the dead)

IMO, the labyrinth is one part of hell, and Leviathan the god of that part. Satan, or (and?) Hades, is (are?) somewhere else.

Pinhead destroying a church means nothing, as he's not an angel of the Christian God, so he's got no reason to "believe" in them and respect churches. He just shares some places with them in that place we call "hell", or kingdom of Hades, or Wallalah (spelling?) if we go to the Norse Myths.

(maybe I should add I think every religion just talk about the same places when it comes to heaven and hell, world of gods and world of the dead, but just speak about them from their own point of view, their own vision of history, their own knowledge and experiments, explaining the difference in names and "number" of "rooms/areas" in these places, Christian hell and heaven being the most simple of them in my view)

So well Hellraiser creates his own mythology, that's right. Like Greek. Like Egyptian. Like Norse people. It doesn't really erase every other myths at the same time. People are dying in there, they go in the world of the dead somewhere in "hell". People solve the box and they go to the labyrinth somewhere in "hell". Both are doors to that place we commonly call the "world of the dead", "the other side" or whatever. One "Country" if you want, with several "States", one of them being christian heaven, the other christian hell and another Leviathan's labyrinth... and many others, look at Dante's map of hell (circles and everything) and other stuff from Greeks or Egyptians or Norse Gods mythology to see what I'm talking about.

Sure, I don't know what 4-8 will tell me about Hellraiser, so my theory is now open-wide, but be sure I'll listen carefully to them before giving my final theory.

I just don't want to separate Hellraiser from the other myths, especially when 1-3 were so clear about what it is (I thought it would be more complicated). I always tie the myths from movies to the "real" myths, it's where I find the fun, but that's something you already know from me ! ;)

I hope I'll find 4-8 soon.

[El Rooto]

Second, people die in the Hellraiser universe, so there's obviously something where the dead go. It's not "there's the labyrinth, Leviathan, the box, the pleasure, and nothing else". So what I want to find is the way to link both "hell" together. The movie is called "hell"raiser, so I find obvious the labyrinth is linked to the hell we know (= world of the dead)

The fact that it's called Hellraiser doesn't mean shit. It doesn't prove that it's linked to any Hell in any religion that we have.

And in Hellraiser, "when you're dead, you're fucking dead!"

[Scarecrow]

The fact that it's called Hellraiser doesn't mean shit. It doesn't prove that it's linked to any Hell in any religion that we have.

And in Hellraiser, "when you're dead, you're fucking dead!"

Indeed, Frank's comment is again part of the series.

It was called "Hellraiser" as an interesting title, the novella as it was makes it even clearewr that this is NOT "Hell". As I said, the comics even make it clear the Labyrinth has been around FOREVER.

In hellraiser it is NOT The world of the dead. hellraiser is closer to Cthulu. Hell is another dimension, the dead do not go there (although some later sequels cause problems that fanon has solved).

The dead are rejcted by Hell as they are useless. That's the core of the mythology. Hell is not detah but Life. In Hell you are immortal. And can be torn apart and made to feel and experience for all eternity.

It's not aboput punishing the wicked but rewarding those who go beyond, for the ultimate experience. Even if you wanted to include Satan and God in the HR Universe (not that there's much point), the Labyrinth wouldn't be part of that, it'd be seperate, another Dimension, a seperate reality like Chthulu.


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I picked up the Unrated Collector's Edition of Hellbound on VHS yesterday. It has an interview with Clive Barker, Another interview with Clive and the cast, and a SFX/Musical montage.

I was actually unaware that they had the uncut version on VHS. I have the other Hellbound VHS as well...but that one is the cut one.

[Ron]

hellbound is probably my favorite out of the entire series. The first film is closely behind it.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I actually used to like the original the best. But over the past few years, I find myself enjoying Hellbound just a little more. The original is damn close, though. :)

[Ron]

the first two together are a great story. then, you have hell on earth, which just brought the franchise into shitty slasher territory.

[Spade]

hellbound is probably my favorite out of the entire series.

I actually used to like the original the best. But over the past few years, I find myself enjoying Hellbound just a little more. The original is damn close, though. :)

the first two together are a great story. then, you have hell on earth, which just brought the franchise into shitty slasher territory.

I agree with all of the above. Well except, I kind of enjoy Hell On Earth. I admit it really doesn't fit in with the rest of the Hellraiser movies and it doesn't have that Hellraiser feel to it. Instead it tried to hard to be a slasher flick, which is something the Hellraiser films should stay away from. All that said, I do still enjoy it.

[Ron]

Oh I liked Hell on Earth for what it was. It had some cool loking cenobites and a huge bodycount.

[El Rooto]

I feel the same way about Hell on Earth.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I think Hell on Earth is decent. But like you guys said, it just doesn't fit in with the previous 2 films. Also, Hell on Earth starts off waaaaay too slow, and it's sort of boring IMO. But it picks up about halfway through, and it's pretty entertaining then.

[nottidelterrore]

I've never seen Hell on Earth but own it now so I'll be seeing it whenever I get around to it.

I heard something about a Cenobite being made of CDs...or having something to do with CDs. Haha.

[Ron]

I think Hell on Earth is decent. But like you guys said, it just doesn't fit in with the previous 2 films. Also, Hell on Earth starts off waaaaay too slow, and it's sort of boring IMO. But it picks up about halfway through, and it's pretty entertaining then.

Like I said : bodycount and cool Cenobites. Hell on Earth is fun like latter 'Friday' and 'Nightmare' films. It's not the best, but..it's definitley not the worst either.

[Scarecrow]

I think Hell on Earth is decent. But like you guys said, it just doesn't fit in with the previous 2 films. Also, Hell on Earth starts off waaaaay too slow, and it's sort of boring IMO. But it picks up about halfway through, and it's pretty entertaining then.

Ah hell, I'd say it was the other way round. At least the start has some wonderful dialogue from Pinhead and a sense of mystery. Soon as Pinhead's free it gets REALLY bad. But at least the massacre is entertaining on a purely brainless level.

But cool cenobites? OK, Terri sn't bad but CAMERAHEAD? CD? COOL!?!

Camerahead and his brilliant dialogue... "Have you seen what he did to me, you little biotch, have you seen?" and "Are you ready for Your close-upo, Joey" and the infamous "That's a wrap".

Ugh.


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

ok, i thought the cenobites in this film were cool on a cheesy level.

[nottidelterrore]

Could someone with the uncut version of Hell on Earth tell me what the differences are between it & the rated version? I'm sure there's gore differences, obviously.

Just something I've been wondering. Thanks. :)

[Scarecrow]

I wish I had a poound for every time I posted this on various sites:p

OK, off the top of my head:

Extra scenes of Joey entering the Boiler Room, and talking to the DJ

We see the stripper go topless in the Boiler Room

At the end of the night w brief scene where Rick the Barman, the DJ and the stripper leave, saing JP is "a dick"

Terri meets JP in a coffee house where couples are doing drugs

Slight extention in the Boiler Room massacre

A lot more shots of soldiers being killed and corpses in the WWOne trenches.

Elliot's extended story, including him showing Joey himself buying the box in India in 1921.

There's possibly more but that's all I can think or at the moment.


- Scarecrow

[Spade]

Scarecrow is always a wealth of Hellraiser knowledge lol.

[nottidelterrore]

I wish I had a poound for every time I posted this on various sites:p

OK, off the top of my head:

Extra scenes of Joey entering the Boiler Room, and talking to the DJ

We see the stripper go topless in the Boiler Room

At the end of the night w brief scene where Rick the Barman, the DJ and the stripper leave, saing JP is "a dick"

Terri meets JP in a coffee house where couples are doing drugs

Slight extention in the Boiler Room massacre

A lot more shots of soldiers being killed and corpses in the WWOne trenches.

Elliot's extended story, including him showing Joey himself buying the box in India in 1921.

There's possibly more but that's all I can think or at the moment.


- Scarecrow

Thank you. :)

[Scarecrow]

Friday and anyone else likign HR3 shpould check out Peter Atkins CANON short storythat details the history of the Pseudo-Cenobites:

http://www.cenobite.com/library/cofw.txt

extract:

By the time Doc came to take his job with Channel 8 and begin his
association with Joey Summerskill, his resume was very impressive and
very detailed but there was one curious three-month gap in late 1977.
The man who conducted the interview for Channel 8 asked what Doc had
been doing through that early winter. "I have no idea" was Doc's
answer and his perfectly blank stare discouraged his interviewer from
probing further. Doc got the job anyway. Speculation among his
colleagues about this three-month sabbatical ranged from covert
government work to ten weeks in de-tox. Nobody got it right.


- Scarecrow

[French Friday]

The fact that it's called Hellraiser doesn't mean shit. It doesn't prove that it's linked to any Hell in any religion that we have.

Well, words mean things, you know.

And in Hellraiser, "when you're dead, you're fucking dead!"

I don't disagree. Greeks also die and stay fucking dead.

It didn't prevent Orpheus to go to hell and come back well alive.

[Scarecrow]

I think there's a slight misunderstanding of sorts though.

It's not saying it's HARD to make it Chjristian. What fans and the like try to explain is how it's NOT. Because of the comics and the expanded mythology, the IDEA of Hellraiser is its own mythology. People try to explain plot holes to fit the Hellraiser story, not other ones. So things that would be fine in, say NOES, would be mistakes in Hellraiser that fans have to patch up.


- Scarecrow

[French Friday]

As I said, the comics even make it clear the Labyrinth has been around FOREVER.

As is "regular" hell.

In hellraiser it is NOT The world of the dead. hellraiser is closer to Cthulu. Hell is another dimension, the dead do not go there (although some later sequels cause problems that fanon has solved).

The dead are rejcted by Hell as they are useless. That's the core of the mythology. Hell is not detah but Life. In Hell you are immortal. And can be torn apart and made to feel and experience for all eternity.

As I said, the Labyrinth IMO is one part of regular Greek hell, not the whole hell. Not the "room" where the dead go, but the room next door... Multiple circles of hell, as I said, multiple rooms, multiple goals...


It's not aboput punishing the wicked but rewarding those who go beyond, for the ultimate experience. Even if you wanted to include Satan and God in the HR Universe (not that there's much point), the Labyrinth wouldn't be part of that, it'd be seperate, another Dimension, a seperate reality like Chthulu.

I don't know Lovecraft's Chthulu myth so I can't answer on this one but my view is not so different than yours. I do agree with what you say about the "ultimate experience". It just seems clear to me that HR has to do with greek hell. It's so obvious in my eyes.

And BTW what is "regular" hell if not another dimension, a separate reality ? You thought I was talking about some place underground ?

I just watched Bloodline. Clearly not a fan of it. Except for Pinhead and Merchants (and Rimmer if she had been given more things to do) there wasn't any other interesting character in this movie. Good idea but badly executed. Loved the dog. Not sure if the original version would have been better as I really hated all the 18th century characters (De Lisle, Jacques and Angélique) and if I remember well, this is the part which was very shorten in the T-Cut. The idea of an "ultimate door" in the basement of the Part 3 building was great but again, badly executed. Even the gore was badly executed, except for the twins's transformation into cenobites.

In this movie, another point towards greek hell : after a LEVIATHAN in Part 2, there's now the Space Station MINOS. You can't say I'm dreaming these obvious references ! Minos, labyrinth... And that guardian dog... Cerberus, you know ?

Now with 4 movies, half the series, here's my view on the Labyrinth and the Cenobites :

In the Greek hell, many dead people are "punished" by being victims of very suffering stuff, like Prometheus with his liver eat again and again by a bird, or that other one who has to climb a hill with a big rock, and arrived at the top of it, the rock goes down the other side, and the guy needs to start all over again.

In the Labyrinth, some lost place in hell where Hades has nothing to do, Leviathan rules his kingdom. Let's say Leviathan is a bastard brother or long lost cousin of Hades and the Olympus Gods (I need to search Wikipedia for "Leviathan" to upgrade my theory later). And he loves watching these people suffering. But they are dead people. So their suffering is not real suffering, more "boredom of the repeats" than anything else. He would like to see true suffering on living humans. Much more interesting. But the doors to his kingdom are closed now.

Arrives the 18th century and De Lisle who succeed (in a way not seen in Bloodline, hence some darkness in my theory now) to understand there was another place in hell than the world of the dead, a place for ultimate suffering experience. He wanted to open a door to it and ask Le Merchant to build the key for him : the box.

And now, Leviathan is happy because numerous living humans come to the labyrinth to experiment suffering. He can create Cenobites with the "best" of them (like Pinhead), his pawns/soldiers/angels/demons, whatever, to help him to study ultimate suffering.

Again, I don't think there's anything here contradicting what you say. It's just that you don't want to see other "hells" in the Hellraiser mythology whereas to me, Hellraiser looks pure greek hell in my eyes, hence my will to tie both hells together. Especially because of my love for greek mythology.

I can see a story where Hades and Leviathan would meet each other for the first time since thousands of years, both not fans of the other one's "way of life".

I now have to find Inferno. I know this one is available in France. Then I'll again upgrade my theory with the new informations.
ADDED:
I think there's a slight misunderstanding of sorts though.

It's not saying it's HARD to make it Chjristian. What fans and the like try to explain is how it's NOT. Because of the comics and the expanded mythology, the IDEA of Hellraiser is its own mythology. People try to explain plot holes to fit the Hellraiser story, not other ones. So things that would be fine in, say NOES, would be mistakes in Hellraiser that fans have to patch up.

- Scarecrow

Well, you're fast to answer !

I agree there's a misunderstanding. First, christian hell = greek hell = egyptian hell = whatever religion's hell IMHO. Only one world of the dead. That's something you need to understand to understand the way I see things.

And I don't try to explain any plot holes as for now, there's none. The 4 movies just fit together very well.

Second, as always, I'm basing my theory on the movies only, as with Friday the 13th or ANOES. They're the canon stuff in my eyes.

Comics are another thing I'll study later if I can.

Now I'm studying the movies ONLY.

[Scarecrow]

RE: Bloodline

It was ALL changed. Paul merchant never told the story, it was more a proper anthology, starting in the past and moving forward. Angelique was dubbed, the actress was French and they dubbed her accent with an American one which is sad. I urge you to read the script to see the intended. The past was very different, the characters were much more detailed. Also it ties closer to the comics (although still problematic). Angelique tries to kill Pinhead in the present and the conflict is much more detailed.

Hell has been around forever, before lemarchand who was just one genius... again more clear in the original cut. Also Leviathan's Hell is NOT death. That's why its clever... Leviathan gives the gift of immortality. The cenobites do not kill, you can't die. And you suffer forever because whatever they do to you, torn apart, you won't die but still live and feel. Leviathan explores pleasure and flesh to try and make perfection and order. Leviathan wants perfect order, a perfect state of pleasure and paina nd the Cenobites are what he uses. This is explained much more in the comics.


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

May I present "The Hellraiser Chronicles: Lifebringer" official teaser trailer, running at 1 minute 30 seconds, (although youtube seems to have added 40 seconds of black at the end!) I know I posted it elsewhere but figured it was relevant here as its a general HR thread. :)

It's short, and the quality was lowered do it'd upload but still, please leave feedback!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Q1CHGzqb4


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I almost forgot you were making a Hellraiser fan film, Scarecrow. I quite liked the trailer. It was very well made. Great work!

[Ron]

That trailer is great Scarecrow...I'm really looking forward to it.

[Scarecrow]

Thanks for the comments guys. It's taken a long time but almost done!


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

not asking for any major info scarecrow, but is there any hint as to where in the timeline this takes place?

[Scarecrow]

I'd just say 2008 myself, the year of its release. Or 2006 the year of filming, I guess it depends. 2008 works for me. :p :D


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

I've uploaded this sequence form the workprint to youtube for everyone to see. It's rough quality, because of compression, but I think these short snippets will work well for people not wanting to watch an entire rough film.

Anyway, this is the alternative ending to the Present segment. I'll add more in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMDRF-P_Rjw

- Scarecrow
ADDED:
Angelique and the Gamblers.

This sequence is from the discovered workprint of the film, although not the ORIGINAL version. Though we see the scene as a flash back here, in the original version THIS would have occured in the Past and would have been what Lemarchand saw through the window after selling the box.

The scene is also cut down a lot with far less dialogue, but it still gives us an idea of what we missed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx96eZaq5Cc


- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

I've uploaded two more sequences from the alternative cut of Bloodline. Both are not utterly complete, they are still edited from the very original, but at leats give us a further taste of what the studios robbed us of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHUJ4PJ1NYk

In the original version Angelique throws De L'Isle out of a window which can be glimpsed in the original trailer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHVcQpSqTd8

This sequence is the first part of the original final confrontation between Paul and the Cenobites.

The reshoots removed the over Cenobites and had Paul survive unlike the original ending...



- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

It may be a fanfilm but figured it was worth sharign with everyone, a trailer for onnyQs "Hellraiser: prophecy" follow=up, "Hellraiser: Deader - Winter's Lament". Brings up a lot of questions about the character of Winter who was one of the best things about Deader IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npExTO0fSxw&eurl=http://www.cenobite.com/forum/showthread.php3?threadid=10162&pagenumber=2


Support the fans! :D


- Scarecrow

[French Friday]

RE: Bloodline

It was ALL changed. Paul merchant never told the story, it was more a proper anthology, starting in the past and moving forward.

That was understood since the beginning. I knew it for more than 5 years.


Angelique was dubbed, the actress was French and they dubbed her accent with an American one which is sad. I urge you to read the script to see the intended. The past was very different, the characters were much more detailed. Also it ties closer to the comics (although still problematic). Angelique tries to kill Pinhead in the present and the conflict is much more detailed.

Her accent was certainly not a problem in this version, but as that original version is unavailable, I can't really judge the consequences of that change. I can't judge the original version in fact, I can just imagine what it can look like.

If it was totally changed, then I can see where I could like it better. But if the scenes that are in the actual HRB are also in the original version, I can't see me liking them better with new added scenes around them. Well, it's always a possibility, I don't close the door, if the characters got big changes in their "way of being" with the additional scenes. But they were truely anti-sympathetic in that version, except for Merchant himself, as I already said.

Hell has been around forever, before lemarchand who was just one genius... again more clear in the original cut.

I understood that too since the beginning. No need for an original cut to understand that. Read my previous post. It's right there.

Merchant just built a key to open the gates of hell. That's where his genius was. Finding the key.


Also Leviathan's Hell is NOT death. That's why its clever... Leviathan gives the gift of immortality. The cenobites do not kill, you can't die. And you suffer forever because whatever they do to you, torn apart, you won't die but still live and feel. Leviathan explores pleasure and flesh to try and make perfection and order. Leviathan wants perfect order, a perfect state of pleasure and paina nd the Cenobites are what he uses. This is explained much more in the comics.

- Scarecrow

That was clear in my previous post.

"You suffer forever because whatever they do to you, torn apart, you won't die but still live and feel" is EXACTLY what takes me to greek mythology so clearly.

Leviathan does to living people what Hades does to dead people.

Hades punishes. Leviathan "congratulates".

But they have the same way to do it. Pain and suffering.

That's exactly like what S-M is in fact.

People who don't like S-M would think it will kill them, hurt them, they don't like the idea of suffering at all. It's punishment (whip lashes for an example are symbol of punishment in many countries). (That would be Hades's opinion)

And there are the other people, those who enjoy S-M, enjoy that suffering. Those for whom a whip lash isn't a punishment, but a pleasure they're searching for. (That would be Leviathan's opinion)

And this balance can be seen as that perfect order wanted by Leviathan. Two faces of the same medal. If there had been just punishment, it would be just chaos. So Leviathan came in there to be/to give the pleasure face of the "pain and suffering" medal.

I didn't want to answer before watching HR5 (to have new elements) but it's been a long time and I always haven't found it so seeing the Hellraiser thread at the top, I just decided to give you these little comments. Always "work-in-progress" comments. Not definitive.

Again, I understand you want to see this hell completely separate from the other(s), but I can't put greek mythology out of my mind when thinking about Hellraiser and reading your comments.

It's just there on the screen, so "in my face" IMHO to avoid it.

I really hope to be able to move forward with 5-8 soon.

[Scarecrow]

That was understood since the beginning. I knew it for more than 5 years.

Her accent was certainly not a problem in this version, but as that original version is unavailable, I can't really judge the consequences of that change. I can't judge the original version in fact, I can just imagine what it can look like.

Well, ehre she has an American accent, evry standard evil. She has a more french/european accent originally, very sensual, sexual. Much beter suited... it's her proper performance, not a dub job.

If it was totally changed, then I can see where I could like it better. But if the scenes that are in the actual HRB are also in the original version, I can't see me liking them better with new added scenes around them. Well, it's always a possibility, I don't close the door, if the characters got big changes in their "way of being" with the additional scenes. But they were truely anti-sympathetic in that version, except for Merchant himself, as I already said.

Tottal different. Every single scene has stuff cut out, the context is different. Use youtube, I have posted scenes there I mention above in this thread. Its a rough cut but you can see the changes in the conclsuino of the Present segment, how they took out all the conflict and character stuff between Pinhead and Angeluqe. not just new scenes, its an entirly new story! Read the script if you don't believe me! :p


Merchant just built a key to open the gates of hell. That's where his genius was. Finding the key.

Ah but that's my point. He's not the key to that. Hell has had many gateways. The ornate Box was around in the Crusades. leviathan had a permanent gateway millions of years ago. Lemarchand is just the latest genius who allows Hell to greater moderise and create more puzzles than anyone else previous.


Again, I understand you want to see this hell completely separate from the other(s), but I can't put greek mythology out of my mind when thinking about Hellraiser and reading your comments.

It's just there on the screen, so "in my face" IMHO to avoid it.

I really hope to be able to move forward with 5-8 soon.

The S&M stuff is important but Hell is more than just that. S&M is the start but what leviathan offers is really beyond our mortal understanding. Pleasure AND Pain that are the exact same thig, at the exact same time. We can try to udnerstand it, but it is a sceret and gift of the Cenobites.

As for Hell, well, i guess my point is, it DOES have elements of other thngs... most things do. But within its own story it even explains this. The comics tell of how Leviathan INVENTED religon. All these different beliefs reflect aspects of Hell, but none tell the whole truth. they are all leviathan's creations to entice, confuse and manipulate mankind.

- Scarecrow

[Scarecrow]

My review of the fan film "Wordsworth", both online and avialable on DVD for the price of the production costs.

--------------------------------------------------

There’s an increasing number of Hellraiser fan films turning up these days but this one initially seemed to appear from nowhere. Unlike the majority of non-spoof films, it’s production wasn’t highlighted on The Hellbound Web and nor was its eventual completion announced upon the fan community. Instead it slipped quietly on to youtube where, like the Lament Configuration, it waited to be discovered by the most dedicated of explorers. Unlike the Lament Configuration, Wordsworth won’t leave you screaming in agony, but rather grinning at this wonderfully put to together and extremely faithful adaptation of Neil Gaiman’s Hellraiser comic.

The Hellraiser comics, which ran from the late eighties and through the early nineties, told over a hundred stories of Hell, the Cenobites and the numerous puzzles that would unleash the extremes of pleasure and pain. With this in mind, its surprising we haven’t seen more adaptations and this is the first that not only keeps all the Hellraiser trappings, but uses its comic origins to present a film with a unique visual style.

The film follows Wordsworth as he attempts to solve a hellish crossword puzzle where each clue is related to his own past life or future actions, and require some horrific acts in order to solve. The look of the puzzle is right out of the comic and director Phil Robinson takes great pains to match shots to certain panels from the original story. The use of on screen captions alongside all dialogue, and a wonderfully evocative voice over, adds to the comic feel but never feels out of place. This is, after all a story about words and their power and influence, and this technique is used to great effect.

There is little call for great moments of acting in the film but what we do get works very well and Aaron Darragh is particularly good in the titular role. He presents a series of quirky moments and nuances that helps bring Wordsworth alive and keep the viewers focus attentively upon him. The puzzle guardian who gives him the crossword also fits his small role nicely, there’s a wonderfully over the top murder scene and the aforementioned voice over is always effective.

This is, of course, a low budget work and it does show at times but when considering just how little was spent on it you can’t help but be impressed by effects and imagery Robinson accomplishes. The final “Love Me” sequence is beautifully brought to life from the pages of the comic, as is the gateway opening through the puzzle. Don’t expect anything more than effectively used low budget effects and you’ll be very pleasantly surprised.

The DVD of the film comes with a photo gallery of the final scenes of the film, full of excellent shots, as well as fun director’s commentary where Robinson discusses some of his directional choices. Some may question the need for a commentary on a fan film but it works as an informative piece, telling of one fans dedication to making a film of something he likes and can only serve to inspire others to follow in his footsteps.

Wordsworth is a short film, running for just over ten minutes, but a lot of love and imagination was put into it, and all involved show great potential for the future. No doubt, as they hone their craft, we can expect to see even more elaborate and inventive storytelling and more great films, whether further fan films or original works. Obtaining a copy would only cost you the price of the DVD and postage and for the dedicated Hellraiser fan would be well worth the effort, the quality is far superior to any versions found online and the commentary worth hearing. All in all, The Hellbound Web recommends this fan film and looks forward to seeing future work from Phil Robinson and his team.

SCORE: Four Hooks out of Five.

----------------------------------------------

- Scarecrow

[The Dream Master]

Hellbound Gets a SE DVD (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-film-documentary/277541-anchor-bay-press-release-hellbound-hellraiser-ii-20th-anniversary-edition.html)

This December, ring in the holidays with Pinhead!
Anchor Bay Entertainment “has such things to show you …”

HELLBOUND: HELLRAISER II
20th Anniversary Edition DVD

BURBANK, CA -- Released the week of Christmas in 1988 – which aroused some controversy among more genteel moviegoers -- Hellbound: Hellraiser II was that rare sequel that was considered to be superior to the original film. It was hailed by many Hellraiser fans as bigger and better, and its success undoubtedly paved the way for a legendary horror franchise that now includes a total of 8 feature films, with a proposed remake on tap for 2009.

On December 30th, Anchor Bay Entertainment, the industry leader in horror home entertainment, will re-release this unforgettable horror classic on its 20th anniversary, and in grand (guignol) style with the Hellbound: Hellraiser II 20th Anniversary Edition. A true “shocking stuffer” for the holiday season, this eye-popping, head-rolling special edition comes complete with a wide variety of DVD extras and special features that will make any horror fan scream with glee. SRP is $19.97, with a pre-book date of Nov. 27th.

The initial run of this highly-anticipated special-edition DVD will include an official reproduction of the film’s original theatrical poster, and a phenomenally fearful selection of DVD extras including three brand new featurettes detailing the making of this horror classic: “The Soul Patrol,” which features all-new interviews with the film’s terrifying trio of Cenobites (Simon Bamford, Nicholas Vince and Barbie Wilde); “Outside the Box,” an exclusive in-depth interview with director Tony Randel about his early career and how Hellbound: Hellraiser II shaped his creative future; and “The Doctor Is In,” an all-new interview with internationally acclaimed actor Kenneth Cranham on his experiences playing the devious and diabolical Dr. Channard.

Another featurette, “Lost in the Labyrinth,” was produced by Clive Barker himself, the mastermind behind Hellraiser who served as the story writer and executive producer of Hellbound: Hellraiser II. In addition, there are vintage on-set interviews with the cast, crew and Barker, and an exclusive audio commentary featuring director Anthony Randel, screenwriter Peter Atkins and legendary “scream queen” Ashley Laurence.

Set shortly after the dire events depicted in Hellraiser, the film follows Kirsty Cotton (Laurence; Lightning Bug, Lurking Fear) as she is sent to a psychiatric hospital run by the mysterious Dr. Channard (Kenneth Cranham; Gangster No. 1, Hot Fuzz, HBO’s “Rome”).

Kirsty continually experiences hellish visions of her stepmother Julia (Tony Award nominee Clare Higgins; Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont, The Golden Compass) and her uncle Frank (Sean Chapman; Gangster No. 1, A Mighty Heart), both of whom met with violent fates at the hands of the Cenobites and their leader, Pinhead (Doug Bradley; Nightbreed, the entire Hellraiser canon). Unbeknownst to Kirsty, however, Dr. Channard is himself a devotee of the black arts, and that he will once again unleash the deadly Cenobites upon an unsuspecting world.

The horrors of Hellraiser have only just begun!

In addition to the encore performances of Bradley, Laurence, Higgins and Chapman, all of whom appeared in the first film, Hellbound: Hellraiser II also stars William Hope (ALIENS, Shining Through, XXX) and Imogen Boorman (Dreamchild, British TV’s long-running “Coronation Street”).

The film received a Saturn Award for Christopher Young’s score and nominations for Best Horror Film and Best Supporting Actress (Higgins). The film also received a nomination for the International Fantasy Film Award from the prestigious Fantasporto Festival.

Variety called Hellbound: Hellraiser II “a campy, gore-soaked horror tale with technically first-rate effects … a maggoty carnival of mayhem, mutation and dismemberment.” “There are enough bizarre and shocking effects here to satisfy all but the most demanding genre fans,” added Richard Harrington of The Washington Post.

Bonus features:

Audio commentary with director Tony Randel, screenwriter Peter Atkins and actor Ashley Laurence
Theatrical Trailers (4) and TV Spots (2)
“The Soul Patrol” featurette – NEW interviews with Cenobite actors
“Outside the Box” featurette – NEW interview with director Tony Randel
“The Doctor is In” featurette – NEW interview with Kenneth Cranham
“Under the Skin” featurette -- Doug Bradley on Hellbound: Hellraiser II
“Lost in the Labyrinth” featurette
On-set interview with Clive Barker
On-set interviews with cast and crew
Poster and stills gallery


HELLBOUND: HELLRAISER II 20TH ANNIVERSARY EDITION
Street Date: December 30, 2008
Pre-Book: November 27, 2008
Catalog #: DV15940
UPC #: 0 1313 15940-9 6
Run Time: 99 Minutes
Rating: R
SRP: $19.97

[El Rooto]

I'll be the first to say they misquoted Pinhead.

[Ron]

I met Doug Bradley (again) and Ashley Laurence at the horror convention I went to last weekend. I can cross two more off the list of people I wanna meet in my lifetime:D

[nottidelterrore]

I'll more than likely get the SE of Hellbound as well as the SE of the first Hellraiser.

I own the tin with both of 'em in it. It's pretty neat.

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I still need to get the SE of the original Hellraiser. I'll definitely pick up the SE Hellbound DVD. I've always loved the first 2.

[Scarecrow]

As with the previous SE, not sure if three new short featurettes are eough for me to shell out again on a region 1 DVD. Still, be cool to see them so I'll have to consider things...


- Scarecrow

[DrSpengler]

Recently reviewed "Hellseeker". (http://pellecreepy.blogspot.com/2008/10/hellraiser-hellseeker-2002.html)

I can't recall having such a major tunr-around in opinion about any other movie after repeat viewings. When I first watched "Hellseeker", I absolutely despised it. The second time, I loved it. Now, it's one of my favorite "Hellraiser" flicks. I honestly think I could have droned on for six more paragraphs about the movie, but forcibly cut myself short.

I really wish the confrontation between Kirsty and Pinhead hadn't been edited for the final cut of the film. The unedited scene had so much depth to it, while the version that made it to print seemed so rushed and anticlimactic.

[Scarecrow]

I do like the longer one but I just look at it as with the rets fo the film, a brief flash of what happened from Trevor's point of view, the reality was the loinger version. Of course, I'm also glad we did lose the "gave of myself to let you run" line because whislt fans can easily see how Pinhead is retconning the past for his current benefit, others might think he's actually saying that wasn't Elliot saving Kirsty in Hellbound. Which it clearly was. Nobly and freely given. ;)


- Scarecrow

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I recently bought Hellseeker on DVD. I just got done watching it about 25 minutes ago, after having not seen it for quite some time. I found it to be somewhat confusing, so I might have to give it another watch.

I'm not sure, but was Trevor in his own personal hell the whole movie?

[Scarecrow]

He was in his own Hell for pretty much the whole film but for more of my ideas on the hidden story of Hellseeker see the this thread: http://www.f13-community.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=3797


- Scarecrow

[i am SAW]

new dvd Dec 30

http://www.fangoriaonline.com/reviews/3-dvd-a-blu-ray/677-hellbound-hellraiser-ii-20th-anniversary-edition-dvd-review.html

http://www.fangoriaonline.com/images/stories/reviews/hellbound20thdvdrev.jpg

[French Friday]

Still no Hellraiser V on my shelf. Always can't find it in R2 with french or english subtitles. Can't continue my discovering of the series. Always want to see 5-8 and comment the mythology movie after movie. Sorry for being so slow.

[nottidelterrore]

The new Hellbound DVD cover is as bland(if not more) than Hellraiser's 20th anniversary DVD release. Regardless, I'll end up getting it.

[Scarecrow]

Still no Hellraiser V on my shelf. Always can't find it in R2 with french or english subtitles. Can't continue my discovering of the series. Always want to see 5-8 and comment the mythology movie after movie. Sorry for being so slow.

Well, it's available in the UK and a lot of other Euyroipean countures. buying online is the easiest way to get a film.


- Scarecrow

[Jigsaw]

I got the SE of the first Hellraiser the other day at Wal-Mart and will watch it soon, and will pick up the Hellbound SE when it's out.

[Scarecrow]

I'd love to see Tobin Bell cast as a Cenobite, he had the screen precense, voice and charisma to really pull it off and still be terrifying IMO.


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

I could see Tobin Bell pulling off Pinhead in the remake:X

[DrSpengler]

That, actually...would be an ideal recasting. The more I think about it, the more I can picture Tobin Bell making for a perfect Pinhead. That's a great choice.

[Sean [The Wildcard]]

I never even thought about the idea of Tobin....and that would definitely be a fine casting choice if they were to go that route.

[Ron]

He can certainly pull off creepy and unremorseful

[Scarecrow]

I just not sure about him being two horror icons. :p I really have no idea how Pinhead would be approached in a remake. More than any other horro icon (closely followed by Freddy) I just can't imagine how he'd come across.


- Scarecrow

[Utellme]

Which Hellraiser is Kari Wuhr in ? i think i spelled it right

I allways thought she is hot.

[Natman]

I really don't know how I feel about Tobin as Pinhead. I was thinking something more, erm, fresh. I'd love to see Doug Jones do it.

[Patrick]

Apparently the Blu-ray of Part 1 is coming in April according to Blu-ray.com

[Violent VictiM]

No one but Doug Bradley. NO ONE. :mad:

[Utellme]

I seen that Hellraiser Deader and Hellworld R2 says uncut are they really any different than U.S release ?

[Scarecrow]

Well, what copies are these you mean? What country? The UK hasn't even had Hellseeker released yet and probably won't. Either way, you don't really get cut DTV films, what you see is the director's visison generally, and deleted footage was all on the DVD as deleted / alternative scenes anyway.


- Scarecrow

[Utellme]

Deader and Hellworld

R2 Netherlands


Be cool if these along with all the others got a Blu Ray box set.

[Jigsaw]

Just got done watching the original Hellraiser for the first time in many years. Classic movie, can't wait to check out the DVD features and also own the new Hellbound DVD coming out this Tuesday. I've never seen all of Hellbound, only a few parts of it.

[Scarecrow]

Let us know what you think, Hellbound is prettymuch the defining film in terms of the wider mythology.


- Scarecrow

[sammysausage76]

I can only see Doug Bradley as Pinhead, I thought the word was that he was likely coming back?

[Ron]

When I spoke to him back in October at a horror con he said that he had not been asked to return, but said he would.

[Jigsaw]

Damn, my Best Buy didn't get the new Hellbound DVD in stock today :( I'll keep looking, worse comes to worst I'll order it from Best Buy's website, as I did with the Pumpkinhead SE.

[Scarecrow]

Indeed, there is no "word" other than stuff fans make up and general rumour with no basis. Without a script even done, little else can be worried about yet.

- Scarecrow

[sammysausage76]

When I spoke to him back in October at a horror con he said that he had not been asked to return, but said he would.

Well that sucks! I would hope that they offer him the part....man...Robert Englund and Doug Bradley get robbed in the same manner. I know nothing is even close to official as they don't even have a script, but this sounds familiar.

[Scarecrow]

Well, it's highly unlikely a remake would cast the same person, it'd be very odd if they did. Child's Play is, but that's a mainly voice part and Doriff's a fairly establiashed name anyway, even if he isn't A-List. Doug's even said before eh doubts he'll be involved.


- Scarecrow

[sammysausage76]

I know that bringing back the same actors isn't the precedent, but I was hoping they may break the tradition, especially for these two actors, but either way I'll probably see these anyway; It is just hard for me to see anyone else in these roles, but hopefully I'll be suprised!