Highlander: The Source

[hack slash]

COOL video I found on YOUTUBE

Are they ever gonna release this movie in the US
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2gJuaZUVYks

[Darth Sinister]

It's still not announced for the US yet. All that's been confirmed is that some scenes were edited out, a new voice over for the beginning and end of the film has been added. Some dialogue has been cut and some alternate takes have been used.

[DRE]

It seems that the unfortunate death of Bill Panzer has slowed everything down, but the film seemed doomed to fail anyways (Although I liked it, even in its present version.)

The best bet is to reboot and hire a well known actor with sword skills to bring new fans to the franchise and erase all the wacky continuity problems Panzer/Davis created.

[Darth Sinister]

This was slowed down before Panzer's death. The decision had been made two months before his unfortunate accident, to re-work the film. The problem is that I think Lionsgate got in over their heads and didn't realize how bad it was going to be until they saw it. See, according to Peter Briggs who worked on the script in 03, Panzer didn't take all the scripts with him when the shift to Lionsgate occured. Only Joel Soisson and Kelvin Watkins will get credit. About a month ago, the WGA finally worked out who will get credit for the film, because everyone had something that is in the film. But they won't get the credit.

[On a Pale Horse]

Someone suggested before Ewan Mcgregor would be good for a remake.

I just miss watching the series. It used to be on USA or Spike (I forget) at midnight.

[Darth Sinister]

Okay, some news. The film is set to debut in the US on Sci-Fi on the 15th of September. In the Netherlands, the film has been released on DVD. There are significant changes. Most noteworthy are much of the Guardian's dialogue has been cut. And there is a new intro and a modified ending. The new intro is spoken by Anna and reveals what Immortals are and then she talks about Duncan. The final battle takes out a badly done scene and replaced it with earlier footage, thus clearly emphasising why the fight ends as it does. It fades out afterwards as we hear Anna talk about what everything is all about, before we get the final scene.

[hack slash]

Okay, some news. The film is set to debut in the US on Sci-Fi on the 19th of September.

doesn't that usually mean the movie is kinda sucky..IE Lake Placid 2, Man-Thing...etc?

[The Dream Master]

Pretty much, HS.

But hey, it's fucking Highlander, right?

[DRE]

The first Highlander film without Connor and it goes direct to DVD/TV. That speaks volumes. Although I liked it, warts and all, minus the terrible Queen covers.

[The Dream Master]

Yeah, getting rid of Connor was bullshit. I like Duncan and all, but Connor MacLeod of the clan MacLeod will always be the Highlander for me.

[DRE]

Yeah, getting rid of Connor was bullshit. I like Duncan and all, but Connor MacLeod of the clan MacLeod will always be the Highlander for me.


I totally agree.

[hack slash]

the one TRUE Highlander
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f93/rocker-dude/Highlander002_Connor.jpg:bow:

[The Dream Master]

:bang:

Amen, Hack Slash.

[Darth Sinister]

Connor was killed off because Lambert didn't want to do anymore, between his looking old and his being practically blind. It would've been a matter of time before it went to DTV, even if Lambert still did the films. In case you forget, Lambert has had films go DTV as well.

And not every film that has gone DTV has been bad. I'm not saying this film is bad or good. For every shit stinker, there have been a few gems as well.

[hack slash]

And not every film that has gone DTV has been bad. I'm not saying this film is bad or good. For every shit stinker, there have been a few gems as well.

DTV not equaling bad I agree with but DIRECT TO SCI-FI is never a good thing
I'll still watch it hoping for the best

[DRE]

Connor was killed off because Lambert didn't want to do anymore, between his looking old and his being practically blind. It would've been a matter of time before it went to DTV, even if Lambert still did the films. In case you forget, Lambert has had films go DTV as well.

And not every film that has gone DTV has been bad. I'm not saying this film is bad or good. For every shit stinker, there have been a few gems as well.

I'm aware that Mr. Lambert is the king of direct to video fare. I'm saying that it seems Lionsgate didn't want to chance releasing the film to theaters, possibly because they didn't think Duncan could carry a film alone, hell even Final Dimension made more than ten million and The Quickening is the highest grossing of the series.

Why else would they not release it theatrically?

[Darth Sinister]

The film is not as good as it could've been. Not because they didn't think Duncan could carry the film. Panzer and Davis did not take all of the script drafts with them when they went to Lionsgate from Dimension and the bulk of the film is based on a revision of Panzer's draft with bits and pieces of other drafts.

[DRE]

I mean, they have David Abramowitz who is a good writer (Search for Vengeance was great, IMO) why not have him do an original story as he seems to know the "Series" universe best of all. The Source was just too flighty a concept for a Highlander film, much like The Quickening.

It doesn't matter, Highlander is dead now anyways and most fans want a reboot.

[Darth Sinister]

He did write a draft for "The Source". But then Brett Lenoard didn't use it, just a few lines of dialogue. The final film is a mishmash of ideas, missing the key moments in the film and Leonard went over the top with things.

[DRE]

The film had Methos kicking ass, so I was content with it.

[hack slash]

Lambert has had films go DTV as well.

none of his Highlanders went DTV, the only movie I know of that STARREDAdrian Paul that wasn't DTV(in the US) was Highlander:Endgame correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any of his other films playing in theaters(U.S)

[DRE]

You are correct hack slash. Lambert has had many films in theaters, and is also known for Tarzan in Greystoke and Raiden in Mortal Kombat.

[Darth Sinister]

none of his Highlanders went DTV, the only movie I know of that STARREDAdrian Paul that wasn't DTV(in the US) was Highlander:Endgame correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any of his other films playing in theaters(U.S)

I think "Love Potion No. 9" was theatrical. He's not the leading star. However, my point was that while none of Lambert's work in the Highlander films went DTV, that doesn't mean that if he did the fifth film it wouldn't have. Besides, "Endgame" was not shown theatrically in every location. London never got it theatrically at all. They along with Argentina and Russia had it straight to DVD.

Here's the story so far for how the film was made.

Bill Panzer broke down the story in 2001. Joel Soisson wrote a draft that had some good stuff and some bad stuff. Then Panzer did his pass. Peter Briggs, who had worked on the series early on by writing the series bible, agreed to come back. He was to write and direct the film, but he got screwed over and left. Soisson did one more draft before the project moved to Lionsgate. Next was a draft by a couple of the guys who won the second season of Project Greenlight. Then Mark Bradley, Stephan Kelvin Watkins and then David Abramowitz. Abramowitz was brought in by Adrain Paul to redo the script, but Brett Leonard didn't use much of it. He never watched the series and had only seen the films. Turns out when they went to Lionsgate only Soisson's draft made it. Bradley is credited and so is Watkins, who came in after the move.

[King Dracula]

Just a reminder that it is airing Saturday on SciFi at 9pm est.

[Just Jeans]

I saw a preview for this on SCI-FI while I was visiting my mother in the hospital last week. It's the only time I laughed the entire day. I finally feel vindicated after the slap in the face that was Endgame. I honestly do feel sorry for the fans who were excited to see this in the theater, but seeing "A SCI-FI Original Film..." tagged to Endgame's sequel gives me warm fuzzies all over.

But hey, it's fucking Highlander, right?

That depends on what your definition of "it's" is.

As far as I'm concerned, Highlander truly ended when Connor defeated The Kurgan. The second and third films are tolerable in that bad-sequel sort of way, but Endgame should have never happened.

It's not that I mind a series of films based on Duncan MacLeod, but I think the films should have completely avoided trying to tie into the continuity of the first film. Connor should have never been utilized, and the way he was used was down right offensive to fans of the original.

[The Dream Master]

Obviously, I agree with you Jeans, as you can see earlier in the thread:

Yeah, getting rid of Connor was bullshit. I like Duncan and all, but Connor MacLeod of the clan MacLeod will always be the Highlander for me.

:p

[DRE]

That depends on what your definition of "it's" is.

As far as I'm concerned, Highlander truly ended when Connor defeated The Kurgan. The second and third films are tolerable in that bad-sequel sort of way, but Endgame should have never happened.

It's not that I mind a series of films based on Duncan MacLeod, but I think the films should have completely avoided trying to tie into the continuity of the first film. Connor should have never been utilized, and the way he was used was down right offensive to fans of the original.

Co-Sign.

And Star Trek: TOS fans complain of the same thing but, at least James T. Kirk was never made to look inferior to Jean-Luc Picard like they did with Connor MacLeod and Duncan MacLeod.

In both cases I think the original heroes met a weak and pathetic end that was unbefitting of their characters and legacies.

[The Dream Master]

Word, Dre, word.

That's a great comparison, actually. I can't believe it'd never occurred to me before.

[Killa Pimp]

Word, Dre, word.

That's a great comparison, actually. I can't believe it'd never occurred to me before.

Yep, Pretty much bulls**t in both cases.
A six pack and dull Saturday and I'll give this movie a go!:cool:

[Darth Sinister]

It's not that I mind a series of films based on Duncan MacLeod, but I think the films should have completely avoided trying to tie into the continuity of the first film. Connor should have never been utilized, and the way he was used was down right offensive to fans of the original.


I wasn't offended and I'm a fan of the original. But the series had long since established itself as connected to the first film. So "Endgame" is not the only one. "The Gathering" featured Connor and references to the first film. "The Watchers" had Joe Dawson confirm that the Kurgan was killed by Connor in 1985. Connor was mentioned in "Prodigal Son", "Line Of Fire", "Homeland", "Archangel", "The End Of Innocence" and "Black Tower". The novel "Element Of Fire" and the last two arcs in the Highlander comic series featured both MacLeods.

Connor wasn't made to look inferior to Duncan, at all. They were telling a story about two Immortals who were brothers and were reaching a final turning point in their lives together. If you note, Duncan was losing to Kell as well as Connor had earlier. Both got their asses handed to them. Duncan won because Connor helped him.

[Just Jeans]

As far as I'm concerned, the TV series exists within a vacuum universe. It's completely incompatible with the original film because, in the original film, Connor won the prize and went on to live his life with the woman he loved. The end.

I really don't mind that they decided not to pursue Connor in further films after the abortion that was Highlander III, but the fact that Endgame is an official sequel to the previous Highlander films doesn't work for me. Never mind that I think it's a mediocre film in general -- it utterly shits on the original film in a way that the second and third films could have only dreamed of. :misery:

Had Endgame excluded Connor entirely, I'd have been perfectly happy with the film.

[French Friday]

In order to have a continuity between the movies and the series, I always add in my mind an "Highlander 2.5" where Connor McLeod, after HL2 Renegade Version, goes back in time to arrive in the first episode of the TV series. I never saw HL3 but I think it can be worked in the world of the TV series as it was made in parallel to the TV series.

[hack slash]

Actually I believe that at the end of Final Dimension, just like the end of Highlander 1, Conner was the only one left and that's how it should've stayed. In Endgame they pussed Connor out and made him a little bitch.

[Darth Sinister]

The series, "The Raven" and "Endgame" all retconned the first film so that Kurgan came to NYC to kill those who survived him in the past. Connor fights and kills Kurgan, then goes on with his life until Brenda dies. He goes after Slan thinking that he was the one responsible as he killed a friend of his and was going after Duncan. So that is how they connect. HL3 specifically left the door open for more Immortals, which is what the producers and I believe Mulchay wanted with the first film. But were outvoted.

[Just Jeans]

From what I recall about the first film, it was never intended to have sequels by anyone involved, but my Highlander history is awful these days. I sort of lost interest after Endgame.

I just can't bring myself to consider the television series canon a part of the first film's canon. The first film is just too perfect a movie to have the TV series undo it, which is why I've always been happy to think of the series as its own beast. Endgame makes that all the more difficult.

The films + series is just a colossal headache.

[DRE]

And it is sad when you consider that the very same two producers had a hand in every single production and purposely chose not to have continuity between them. That's just as bad as Akkad allowing the Halloween timeline to get as out of hand as it did.

RIP Akkad and Panzer.

[FinalBeyond]

I just don't get why they even made Duncan. A handful of immortals in the entire world, and there's two in the same Scottish clan? It'd be stupid even if he was a Fraser, but a MacLeod?

I think it would have been better (Assuming of course that the series would happen. In my perfect Highlander continuity, like Jeans, it's just the first film) if they'd had someone from somewhere completely different, who ends up being drawn to, and trained by Connor, then going seperate ways.

[Darth Sinister]

Here's the story. Back when "Highlander" was made, Panzer and Davis wanted to do more. But they were outvoted in the matter. The film became a cult hit and they had the rights to the whole thing. They went and made HL2, coming up with a way to tell the story. Unfortunately, it was missing a key scene that had been written, which explains how HL2 connects to HL1. Namely that when the Immortals were sent from Zeist to Earth, they would be reborn on Earth with their memories erased. Only Kurgan would retain his memories, as he was sent by Katana to eliminate them. Hence he knew who Connor was and was eager to kill him, before he was trained to fight back. Ramirez would retain a small bit of his memory, hence looking for Connor.

Following HL2, the producers and Lambert met to discuss creating a television series. Lambert would not do Highlander as weekly series, but would help get it created and would do another film. Peter and Andrew Briggs wrote a series bible which is basically an outline, for which the show would be based off of. The show would be about Connor with a new lady love named Tessa and a young Immortal protege named Richie Ryan. Towards the end of the first season, Connor would encouter a mortal cult that knew about the Immortals and their histories. Along the way, the Briggs brothers were screwed over and left. Panzer/Davis would then cast Adrian Paul as Connor MacLeod. But right before filming was to begin, it was decided that Paul would play a new character named Duncan MacLeod. This was done so as to not confuse people as the third film's story would be separate from the television series. And because Lambert was associated with Connor and did so well, that it would be best to start fresh. Lambert agreed to do "The Gathering" to establish the two MacLeods as separate men. David Abramowitz came around episode seven and began to shape the show's future as a morality play.

HL3 was made with a first draft by Brad Miriam. Bill Panzer and Paul Ohl carried on from there, with part of one story from Briggs outline used for the final act. The two stories were separate. In 1995, Gregory Widen wrote a script called "The Immortals" which was rejected by Dimension for being too expensive. He then went back to write a draft featuring both MacLeods, as the series was beginning to wind down and Paul was looking to do feature films, including Highlander ones. Widen was to write and direct the film, but left in early 1998. Eric Berent did a draft which was really an insult as it featured Connor and Duncan fighting over a woman, leading to Duncan killing Connor over it. This draft was rejected and finally, Panzer with Gillian Horvath who worked on the series, did a draft. The film was to begin shooting in the fall of 98, but production was delayed for a year. Joel Soisson did a draft which was the shooting script, with Lambert and Paul having rewrites done to fit their characters going into the film. To give their characters more emotion, especially during their confrontation as the Soisson draft was lacking in that department.

Another thing is that while the first film never made clear how many Immortals were in existence, when the series launched there were more of them. But initially mortal threats were also put into place. These threats, however, weren't all that interesting in the first season as there was no real danger. The Watchers made things interesting as they had an opposition that knew who they were and how to kill them. But that also wore out its welcome, so starting with season three nearly every week had Immortals cropping up with many of them being the villian. Several stories featured Immortals who weren't evil, but had some type of conflict come up. Methos and Amanda were recurring characters who provided different types of stories. Some episodes revolved around humorous trappings such as "The Stone In Scone" and "The Ransom Of Richard Redstone". In those tales, there were no battles and the episodes dealt with Duncan in a bizarre situation. Immortals were coming from all kinds of different countries, with several cropping up in the same region over time. Four Immortals in Scotland; Connor, Duncan, Kell and Ceridwyn. At least four from Russia; Kurgan, Alexei Voshin, Drakov and Ivan Kristov. A few from Africa proper; Sunda Kastagir, Haresh Clay and Carl Robinson. Egypt had Ramirez, Nefertini and possibly Methos.

[DRE]

The same thing I say about Generations (Which I think is a great film outside of Kirk's function) I will say about Endgame, Connor should have had a more equal role to Duncan and interacted more with his world. It seems his only function in the film (Like Kirk) was to die and pass the torch.

I know the film was meant to be a "Duncan Highlander" film but why not do a parallel story that features both heroes doing their thing and then have it all intersect at the end? They have the sequels to establish Duncan on the big screen, why not let them both shine in one film together? Why can't Connor and Methos have a few scenes together? Why can't Kirk be on the bridge of the Enterprise-D?

I'm rambling now. But these "Pass the Torch" films have got to do better than what they have been. I think American Ninja 4 is the only "Crossover" film where the original Ninja got to come in and do his thing just the same (If not more) than the new guy (Who had the whole third and fifth films to himself.)

[Just Jeans]

Ramirez was the coolest Egyption ever... mostly because he was apparently from the Scottish region of Egypt. :lol:

I completely lost interest in Highlander: The Series when Duncan accidentally cut off Richie's head. To this day, I still can't fathom how they thought that was a good idea, or a sutible resolution for the character's arc.

Anyhoo, I'm off to set my DV-R to tape The Source. As jadded as Endgame left me, I just can't bring myself not to watch.

I know the film was meant to be a "Duncan Highlander" film but why not do a parallel story that features both heroes doing their thing and then have it all intersect at the end?

Or, better still, how about not putting Connor in the film at all? That's how I would have approached it, anyway. Connor's involvement in Endgame was a MacGuffin of the highest order, and to this day it still iritates me (I'm glad the draft where Duncan kills Connor over a woman was passed up, although if I had my way the man who wrote it would never work in the film industry again).

And I agree with Final about using Duncan in the show. I'm not fussed about Adrian Paul, I really sort of liked him, but couldn't they have just created a new character that is unrelated to, but has been taken in and trained by, Connor? Duncan could have been Connor's Richie before he finally became powerful enough to fend for himself. Making Duncan a MacLeod was pointless.

[DRE]

Well, they had to make Duncan a MacLeod from the highlands of Scottland otherwise calling the show "Highlander" would have been pointless, just as it was with "Highlander: The Raven."

[FinalBeyond]

There's not only MacLeods in Scotland. It's a big place. Why couldn't Connor train someone from somewhere else in the country?

[Just Jeans]

My boy Final knows the score.

They could have easily made Duncan a native of Scotland without making him a MacLeod. The only reason they stuck him with the MacLeod surname was because they wanted to nab the pre-existing fan base.

[Darth Sinister]

They made Duncan a MacLeod to have a sense of familiarity to it. As I said, the decision to have Adrian Paul become Duncan was done very late in the process. In fact, they were still debating at the time Lambert was in the final negotiations for doing "The Gathering". And as the series revealed, Immortals were foundlings. Thus whoever finds and adopts them, can choose whatever surname they want.

As to killing off Richie, that was done to give Duncan a reason to leave for a year. A big cliffhanger moment and a focus for the final season.

[Just Jeans]

I've just read the SCI-FI Channel's description for the film. So it's a second origin story about the whys and hows of Immortality. Yeah, because the first one was so great. :side:

They made Duncan a MacLeod to have a sense of familiarity to it. As I said, the decision to have Adrian Paul become Duncan was done very late in the process.

I know why they did it, but I still think its rubbish. Including Connor in the first episode as Duncan’s mentor would have been plenty familiar.

And as the series revealed, Immortals were foundlings. Thus whoever finds and adopts them, can choose whatever surname they want.

That would have been fine and well if that was what had happened, but it isn't. Duncan was meant to be a fellow clansman, not a foundling who adopted Connor's surname.

I would have actually preferred that Duncan was a MacLeod in name only rather than actually having been brought into the clan as a baby.

[Darth Sinister]

All of the Immortals were foundlings who were adopted by whoever finds them. Connor and Kell were both raised in Glenfinnian around the same time. Connor by Caiolan and Kell by Father Rainey. Duncan was raised nearly 80 years later. Methos was found by the people that raised him. Kane was raised by Mongolians. Richie Ryan was raised by a woman who died when he was young, and then in different foster homes. Morgan D'Estang was raised by the D'Estang family. So on and so fourth. Thus Duncan was found and raised by Ian and Mary MacLeod, who were decended from a branch of the Clan MacLeod from 1536.

[DRE]

The movie wasn't all that different from the version I already had. The new voice of The Guardian was more like The Kurgan. I didn't like the new ending voice over, it didn't need to show the whole damn film all over again.

My final verdict, I like the film in a "Not really Highlander" kind of way, just the same as Highlander II: Renegade Version. Either way, it is far better than Endgame but nowhere near Duncan's version of "First Contact." It's not even "Nemesis."

[Just Jeans]

I haven't watched it yet, I'll be seeing it on Monday, probably.

How was it in terms of being cut down for TV, 'dre? Was it too badly censored?

All of the Immortals were foundlings who were adopted by whoever finds them.

Thus Duncan was found and raised by Ian and Mary MacLeod, who were decended from a branch of the Clan MacLeod from 1536.

Yes, I know all of this. My point was that I find it just a little bit unlikely that two immortals are going to end up in the same clan less than 100 years apart. That's never set well with me.

[DRE]

Not so much in the violence as it was in the profanity. Other than that, there was no difference.

[King Dracula]

It was bad. Many of the episodes of the TV show were better then it. Basically no sword fights. Meethos was always one of my favorite characters and I hated the way they wrote him. Just didn't get a good feel from him in the movie.

[Darth Sinister]

I haven't watched it yet, I'll be seeing it on Monday, probably.

How was it in terms of being cut down for TV, 'dre? Was it too badly censored?

Mostly it's a language issue as shit, bullshit, fuck and fucker are used a lot.

Yes, I know all of this. My point was that I find it just a little bit unlikely that two immortals are going to end up in the same clan less than 100 years apart. That's never set well with me.

How is it unlikely?

It was bad. Many of the episodes of the TV show were better then it. Basically no sword fights. Meethos was always one of my favorite characters and I hated the way they wrote him. Just didn't get a good feel from him in the movie.

I wouldn't say basically no sword fights. You have the Guardian fighting Zai, even if the Guardian doesn't use his sword. Duncan fighting the Guardian twice, first time with the katana and then with the butterfly swords.


Anyway, I've read the Peter Briggs drafts. While I'm still bound by my promise not to give them out, I can talk about the differences.

In Briggs drafts, they included Duncan doing a voice over along the lines of the first film, but it goes into a discussion of the Source. The story begins with several Immortals in a regular chatroom talking about finding the Source. Erita Noone, Father Giovanni Cioni, Tyra Jones and Dashiel "Dax" Tyler discuss that Methos and Kate Devaney have located the Sapura Urn, an artifact that will give them a clue to the Source and are about to steal it. Meantime, we see them do just that, but as they leave they are confronted by a female Immortal who doesn't give off a buzz. Methos fights while he has Kate run with the Sapura. During the fight, Methos manages to disarm the Stranger of one sword, before his sword is destroyed. The police come forcing the Stranger to flee. Later, find Duncan living in Glencoe at the site of Connor's old homestead where we see him talking to Kate via webcam. She tries to tell Duncan to go meet with Methos and that the Sapura is real, but the Stranger shows up and attacks. A firece fight erupts as the connection is severed. Thus Duncan doesn't see Kate kill the Stranger, before becoming engulfed in a variation of a Dark Quickening which destroys Kate and leaves only the Stranger in her body. At the same time the Quickening occurs, we see a thing called "The Eternity Machine", which everytime a Quickening occurs, it is activated as some of the lightning makes its way htere.

Later, we find Duncan being picked up by Joe as they are in Khartoum, Africa. Joe takes Duncan to Methos who informs him that Kate was involved with the quest for the Source. Duncan himself had been on one in 1770, but all he and Immortal James Bruce came up with was a female Immortal who we know as Erita Noone. Methos also reveals that Ramirez had sought it out prior to his death. Looking to gain the ability to have children. And that throughout the ages, mortal and Immortal have sought the Source in one form or another. Be it the Fountain of Youth or the Spear of Destiny. Now, with the newcommer, Methos is leaving and is letting Duncan step in.

Duncan meets with the others, all of whom he has met at one point or another. But no sooner are they paired up then they are confronted by the Stranger who proves to be a lot tougher than they realize. And has a jones for Erita. She herself is unique as she has no buzz, yet is Immortal. She has also undergone testing to determine what she is, with recent tests resulting in various visions regarding the Source. The group meet up with a young Watcher named Jason Mann, who asks to join up as he is dying from Werner's Sydnrome, a disease which induces rapid aging. It's his hope that the Source can slow this down long enough to live a normal life. Or at least another year. As they leave, Tyra explains that by using GPS tracking, they've been able to pinpoint where the leftover energy from a Quickening goes, when it travels across the ley lines of the world. The group soon meets up with the Bin Ghazi monks who are decended from the original Watchers and that they consider the Immortals to be the children of the Source.

A group of Sapura Bedoun warriors tried to find the Source and were attacked by the Eriskhigol who were the protectors of the Source. The Bedoun survive, but all they have left is a little bit of a liquid they believe to be the Source itself. The survivors drank from it, but their bodies are not what they were. They are like the Elder in the final film. After hearing the tale and given the last information on where to go, they head out. However, while on guard duty, Giovanni is attacked by the Stranger and winds up becoming the new host, but is able to hide this from the others. As they get closer to the Source, their Immortality does lessen but it is still there. As they draw nearer, the Stranger kills Tyra takes and then changes bodies with Dax before the final confrontation.

Duncan, Erita and Jason find where they believe the Source to be, but instead find not much. A dry riverbed and that the Eternity Machine is a small little thing. Jason is wounded by the Stranger who reveals that he and Erita are the Source. That they are unique Immortals, different from all the rest. And that together, they can breed a superior race. One that will live long after the others have wiped themselves out. A fight breaks out, but Duncan is unable to beat the Stranger, but before he is killed a dying Jason takes the Stranger's head. As the Quickening occurs, the Eternity Machine activates and absorbs it, sparing Duncan. The script ends with Duncan and Erita burying Jason, wondering if there might be more out there like herself and the Stranger.

[hack slash]

I've watched about half of it, Adrian Paul's good in it, I like Methos attitude, Joe Dying was sad but I'm just not digging the Guardian or the very cheap special effect used for him, and I hate the speedy film during Duncan's first fight with the Guardian but so far it's OK, better than Highlander 2(who's only redeeming quality was Lambert, Connery and Ironside)

[Just Jeans]

I don't say this often, but The Source is a definite contender for "Worst Film Ever Made". It definitely wins in the "Worst Sequel Ever Made" category. The film does a multitude of things wrong, from the cosmetic (the FX were pitiful) to the story itself (whose bright idea was it to destroy Duncan's sword half way through the film?). This film fails on so many different levels.

Oh, and fuck that ending. No, worse -- angry fuck that ending. :pull:

I hope they leave this franchise good and dead, where it should have stayed after Endgame. Unless they reboot the concept, there's simply nothing else they can do with it.

[On a Pale Horse]

Is the Source out in the US yet?

[Just Jeans]

It was aired on the SCI-FI Channel as a SCI-FI Original Film a couple of nights ago.

[On a Pale Horse]

Damn, I will have to check the listings to see if its coming on again.

[Just Jeans]

My advice would be don't waste your time. Go watch the original Highlander again, and forget this piece of sputum was ever produced.

[On a Pale Horse]

It comes on tomorrow night. Might as well watch as its free. I am a big Highlander fan so gotta at least check it out. You wouldn't miss a Dr Who movie, even if someone said it sucked :)

[Just Jeans]

You wouldn't miss a Dr Who movie, even if someone said it sucked :)

Touché, sir.

Having said that, The Source really is painful to watch. I’m a pretty big Highlander fan myself (more-so the first film than the TV series or any of the sequels), and this film was just... well, it cut me deep, frankly.

By the time Endgame had ended, I felt as though a piece of me had died. By the end of The Source, it felt like that piece had finally started to decay and then finally it fell off.

This series is dead and buried. It needs to stay that way, unless they plan to do something entirely different with it.

[On a Pale Horse]

Just wait till it becomes the latest remake victim!

[Just Jeans]

Might as well remake it. I want to see it completely re-imagined, because there's simply nothing else to do with the current franchise (which is why The Source went direct to SCI-FI rather than going to the cinema, as was the initial plan).

I'd like to see a Highlander film in the same vain of what the next X-Files movie is supposedly going to do -- have Duncan, Tessa, Joe and Richie involved in some nefarious plot and have to stop it. Not quite a remake, but a reboot that ignores Endgame and The Source, which is set sometime during the run of the television series.

[hack slash]

after finally finishing the movie I have to say...CRAP, like they couldn't destroy the Highlander Legacy anymore than they have. The end fight was very stupid and sucked, the Guardian was a big waste, the only tolerable things were Duncan, Joeall 5 minutes he was there:side: and Methos, nobody else could act at all, Giovani was horrible, the Girl Anna I think, was Tara Reid bad, The effects were horrible the fight scenes(if you really want to call them that) were crap. The ending was very very dumb

as A Highlander film I'd give it a 3/10 as a stand alone film 2.5/10

So after watching the whole film

Highlander 8.5/10:D
Highlander: Final Dimension 6.5/10:cool:
Highlander Endgame 6/10:side:
Highlander 2 Renegade version 5/10:meh:
Highlander 2 theatrical 3.5/10:X
The Source 3/10...barely:misery::pull:

[Darth Sinister]

Adrian Paul wanted to work in having to use the butterfly swords into the film, as he had begun working with them back in 2003. To that end, it was written that his sword would be destroyed, barrowing from Peter Briggs's draft where Methos has his sword destroyed. The casting was up to Brett Leonard, even though Adrian Paul tried to have some say in it as executive producer. Unfortunately, he didn't have nearly as much creative control as he had been promised.

[hack slash]

Darth didn't Paul have script approval or come up with the story or anything like that

[DRE]

Might as well remake it. I want to see it completely re-imagined, because there's simply nothing else to do with the current franchise (which is why The Source went direct to SCI-FI rather than going to the cinema, as was the initial plan).

I'd like to see a Highlander film in the same vain of what the next X-Files movie is supposedly going to do -- have Duncan, Tessa, Joe and Richie involved in some nefarious plot and have to stop it. Not quite a remake, but a reboot that ignores Endgame and The Source, which is set sometime during the run of the television series.

I want Duncan gone!!!

If they are gonna reboot go back to the tragic hero that made the first film so great in the first place, the real Highlander, Connor MacLeod. Recast him and Ramirez with capable actors, do it big budget and end the film with an open for sequels.

Damn, I feel like one of those crazy close minded Trek: TOS fans who are not open to TNG & DS9 (To hell with VOY and ENT.) Let me explain my position, Duncan was great for that extended universe and the series was top notch, but they failed him in the cinematic universe (And failed Connor by including Duncan in his universe.)

Duncan had his shot and it didn't work out, time to go back to what works, a universe with only one Highlander named MacLeod and get producers who actually know what the hell they are doing. Highlander has the story and all the makings of being something beyond a cult classic, it could be huge if treated correctly.

Reboot the damn thing!

[hack slash]

Yeah I'd be cool with a Highlander remake. If you get the right people It could be a Beautiful Epic film (depending on cast possible award winner) that would draw people into it.

Highlander NEEDS a Remake

[The Dream Master]

Actually, Highlander needs a remake about as much as I need a root canal. On the other hand, since the continuity is all fucked to hell anyway, they might as well do a reboot/sequel to the first film that ignores all the sequels and television show and brings Connor back. Normally, I'd be against something like that, but it's been going on since Highlander 2, so whatever.

Of course, that's never going to happen, so...

[Just Jeans]

I'm not against remakes on basic principal. I'm against the current remake trend, but I think that's a totally different discussion altogether.

Highlander is prime for a re-invention, because none of the sequels have been worth a shit. There's no reason to continue with this incarnation of the franchise, because it's pretty much a lost cause. Highlander: The Final Dimension could have been good, but it ended up bogged down in mediocrity. Endgame could have been good, but it had the whole continuity porn thing going, and trying to tie it into the Connor films killed it. The Source... well, the less said, the better.

Ultimately, we either get another Duncan film that follows The Source (god forbid), a Duncan film that ignores The Source, or something completely different. My vote is for something completely different.

I just can't believe that The Source managed to make Highlander 2 look good. You know a franchise is in bad shape when the latest film makes one of the worst movies ever made look good. :misery:

[The Dream Master]

Damn, is it really that bad? I didn't watch it on Sci-Fi because I didn't have time. I figured I'd just buy it, but the reviews haven't inspired much confidence.

You know, I think the idea or story behind Highlander could definately be re-imagined. I don't want to see a complete re-tread of the first film; if they're going to do anything, they just need to start back from square one and introduce an entirely new cast of characters.

[Just Jeans]

That's basically what I want, Brett.

And yes. It is that bad.

[On a Pale Horse]

Damn, is it really that bad? I didn't watch it on Sci-Fi because I didn't have time. I figured I'd just buy it, but the reviews haven't inspired much confidence.

You know, I think the idea or story behind Highlander could definately be re-imagined. I don't want to see a complete re-tread of the first film; if they're going to do anything, they just need to start back from square one and introduce an entirely new cast of characters.


If you get this in time, its on SCI-FI TONIGHT.

How about Ewan Mcgregor as Conner in the remake?
ADDED:
Watching it right now. PRETTY BAD SO FAR. To make it worse, its on Sci-Fi so its 10 minutes of movie, 5 minutes of commercial. You cant even to get into the bad plot because it keeps breaking for commercial every time somethings happens.

[Darth Sinister]

Darth didn't Paul have script approval or come up with the story or anything like that

No. He was to have creative control as executive producer, but it seems that it was mostly limited to small stuff. He picked out the swords, helped with the costume design, hand picked the swordmaster, worked with the stunt coordinator, sat in on the casting and helped out with several problems that arose during filming. He did bring David Abramowitz on board to re-write the script, but very little of it was used at the descrestion (sp) of either Bill Panzer or Brett Leonard. According to those who were in Lithuania, Panzer wasn't on set as much as Peter Davis. Leonard never watched the series and was largely familiar with the films. It seems despite his best efforts, he couldn't get things changed.

Anyway, I doubt a remake could happen. Highlander has never been prime material even before the sequels and the series. No one wanted to make the film before Panzer and Davis got it in the first place. It was all an incoherent mess in the earliest drafts, written by Gregory Widen himself. And even with good screenwriters like Larry Ferguson and a pretty good director in Russel Mulchay when he was first starting out, the investors and the studio that distributed it in the US (20th Century Fox) thought it was crap. Thus a number of scenes were cut out, which gave the film an even richer tapresty (sp), because the film didn't make sense to them. That's also why the film was not promoted strongly and failed at the box office. It was only through good grace that it became a cult favorite. With Panzer gone, the odds of Davis continuing on are slim. And very few people would be interested in a remake.

[The Dream Master]

Darth, will all due respect, I think you're wrong about this one. Highlander has a bigger installed fan-base than a lot of films getting remakes. For example, Fright Night is being re-made. I guarantee you more people on the street know Highlander more than Fright Night.

Mind you, I don't particularly want a remake, but I do think there's a market for one. I mean, we're just 6 or 7 years removed from this franchise being viable enough to have a theatrical film released (Endgame). Other franchises have suffered through worse and have mangaged to forge ahead, for better or worse.

[DRE]

Not only that, there was no big name lead to draw them in (Connery was Bond yes, but did that bring people to see Name of the Rose?), if they do it right this time they could have a great fantasy series on their hands. Get rid of all the dead weight and convolution and start from scratch.

[On a Pale Horse]

Well, now after seeing, I have to agree... SOURCE SUCKED MAJOR ASS.

Terrible acting. Almost incoherent plot. The Guardian??? Huge Kurgan rip off. And how can someone thats that old and powerful have such cheesy, bad lines through the entire movie.

The end really explained nothing. Did Duncan become more powerful? Is he still immortal? Is his kid some kind of Messiah? What is the source?

Just plain bad.

[Special Killa B]

Well, now after seeing, I have to agree... SOURCE SUCKED MAJOR ASS.

Terrible acting. Almost incoherent plot. The Guardian??? Huge Kurgan rip off. And how can someone thats that old and powerful have such cheesy, bad lines through the entire movie.

The end really explained nothing. Did Duncan become more powerful? Is he still immortal? Is his kid some kind of Messiah? What is the source?

Just plain bad.

I agree this movie did suck, I was so disappointed with this movie that I was flipping through channels while it was on instead of during the commercials! And yes I was completely lost as to how this movie ended as well. I don't think they really explained really good at the end at how the source affected Duncan.

[Just Jeans]

If Fright Night can get a remake, there's absolutely no reason that Highlander can't.

I suppose ultimately what I want isn't a remake, but a new franchise all together. Start from scratch. Use the MacLeod Clan or don't, it doesn't really matter, just have a bunch of immortals who want to cut each other's heads off to win the prize, and I'll be happy (assuming the script is good and the casting is up to snuff, of course).

I think the series should move to the far future -- without dating itself -- and establish a new MacLeod (a bit like the Animated Series, only not as lame).

[hack slash]

I think the series should move to the far future -- without dating itself -- and establish a new MacLeod (a bit like the Animated Series, only not as lame).

something along the lines of the Anime Highlander: The Search for Vengence would be cool

[Darth Sinister]

Darth, will all due respect, I think you're wrong about this one. Highlander has a bigger installed fan-base than a lot of films getting remakes. For example, Fright Night is being re-made. I guarantee you more people on the street know Highlander more than Fright Night.

Mind you, I don't particularly want a remake, but I do think there's a market for one. I mean, we're just 6 or 7 years removed from this franchise being viable enough to have a theatrical film released (Endgame). Other franchises have suffered through worse and have mangaged to forge ahead, for better or worse.

"Fright Night" was released and had a sequel. It had a short lived comic series. That's it. It barely counts as a franchise. Besides, that's a horror film and almost all of the horror films are being remade. The first film did well and the second film didn't. All four theatrical releases of Highlander bombed and we know what happened to the fifth film. The television series had a six year run, but it was not as high rated compared to "Hercules" and "Xena", the main competition in the 90's. "The Raven" only lasted a season and they couldn't even get the backing for another year. Hell, they barely got the backing for that one season and were forced to change the focus to get it on the air. The book series ran for nine books and a collection of short stories, before ending due to poor sales. The comic, which had 1986 Connor at the start, dropped in sales before the first arc finished and is about to be cancelled despite having both characters and strong writing.

[On a Pale Horse]

You know... in a weird kind of way this movie reminded me of Final Fantasy:

1) group of people going on a quest
2) Futuristic setting but using swords, bo's, knifes etc
3) One character is "Sensitive" to the Source and has dreams/premonitions
4) The blond guy, Giovani, looked just like Final Fantasy blond guy characters, with the hair and beety eyes.


Weird, I know, but just crossed my mind as I was bored watching the movie.

[Killa Pimp]

Well, now after seeing, I have to agree... SOURCE SUCKED MAJOR ASS.

Terrible acting. Almost incoherent plot. The Guardian??? Huge Kurgan rip off. And how can someone thats that old and powerful have such cheesy, bad lines through the entire movie.

The end really explained nothing. Did Duncan become more powerful? Is he still immortal? Is his kid some kind of Messiah? What is the source?

Just plain bad.

co - sign:
I want my money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lmao:

[Just Jeans]

It's what Final Fantasy would have become if Sakaguchi had gotten bored midway through the project, handed the script to a school kid for rewriting, then sort of just slapped it all together with his eyes closed and one hand taped behind his back. :meh:

And Giovanni will never rock as hard as Seifer did (the only "blonde guy character" I can think of in the series that is similar at all to Giovanni.)

[On a Pale Horse]

It's what Final Fantasy would have become if Sakaguchi had gotten bored midway through the project, handed the script to a school kid for rewriting, then sort of just slapped it all together with his eyes closed and one hand taped behind his back. :meh:

And Giovanni will never rock as hard as Seifer did (the only "blonde guy character" I can think of in the series that is similar at all to Giovanni.)

I think there was another one? He also kind of reminds me of one of the Cid incarnations...I cant remember now, they all run together.

Its the lifted hair and beaty eyes.....

[Just Jeans]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Ff8-seifer.jpg

Seifer > Giovanni.

[Darth Sinister]

So there was a Highlander convention this past weekend in Canada. Here are the highlights.

-It was both Bill Panzer and Lionsgate's fault. They both wanted to do something different, namely make it more like a horror film to attract younger audiences.

-David Abramowitz wrote his draft, but it was ignored and he wrote a second one, which was also ignored. Though a few bits made it into the film. He was trying to turn a gilded turd and at least make it less of a turd. But he had no say and despite their best efforts, he and Paul couldn't get it changed. Lionsgate was locked in on the draft that had been written before he came on board. Abramowitz is only credited because of an error when the Dutch/Sci-Fi version was made.

-Adrian Paul, Peter Wingfield and David Abramowitz pretty much disavow the whole film. Abramowitz said that he like Panzer, but he felt that he was in the wrong with his ideas. He is now in charge, filling the spot from where Panzer was.

-Adrian Paul and Elizabeth Gracen did a little skit written by Abramowitz, which was written in character and poked a bit of fun at "The Source". Wingfeild also said that it was a nightmare and that Joe is alive and well.

-The Highlander video game is still coming. Peter Wingfeild is reprising his role of Methos and there is a new character named Owen MacLeod. When asked about there being a fifth MacLeod, he said that this was his fault as he likes the MacLeod name.

-Abramowitz hinted that there is something regarding another film, but cannot say anything as it could blow the deal. There are rumors on the Highlander boards of a remake or a reboot.

-Issue 12 of the monthly comic does have a reference to "The Source", but it might be left out by writer Brandon Jerwara.

[DRE]

-Abramowitz hinted that there is something regarding another film, but cannot say anything as it could blow the deal. There are rumors on the Highlander boards of a remake or a reboot.


Makes no sense to reboot with the same team in place. The only thing I see them doing is rebooting to remove the character of Connor MacLeod completely and make it all Duncan from the begining...no thanks.

[Darth Sinister]

I don't think that they'd remove Connor if there was a reboot. It'd be that both MacLeods exist and the continuity issues are dealt with so as to avoid it in the future.

[On a Pale Horse]

In the end, just another movie to ignore from the continuity. File it next to The Quickening.

[Rick]

This movie was so bad, from the story to the FX.
It wasn't even on the same level as the TV show.
There was no explanation , no pay off at the end.
The actor who played the guardian was terrible, and so was pretty much all of his dialog. He was a rip off of Kurgan, something they already did in part 3 with Mario Van Peebles character Kane.
The TV show was OK, but I never liked that they continued the films with the series characters and mythology.
The original film should have been stand alone, never sequelized.
I thought the original movie was awsome, unfortunately every sequel too it was really bad.
This one, however, takes the prize for the worst sequel of the series IMO. Part 2 originally held that distinction but even that mess was better than this mess.

[Darth Sinister]

Adrian Paul Interview. (http://www.joblo.com/arrow/index.php?id=11299)


This movie was so bad, from the story to the FX.
It wasn't even on the same level as the TV show.
There was no explanation , no pay off at the end.

Now with The Source, you’re character Duncan Macleod, you’ve gone through so many changes from the series to this. What have you found that has changed, by either getting worse or better?

Adrian Paul: Well, I think Duncan has gotten too dark now. I mean, there was something that we went into this film with, ‘oh we’ve got to make the world dark’ and I went with that idea. But the end of the film was not really resolved for any of us in the sense that, it kind of ended and there was supposed to be another scene shot which brought it back to life again, but we never got the time or the money to shoot that. So, I would have liked to have seen MacLeod… with the series he had a sense of humor and there was a certain lightness about him in certain aspects, even though there’s a darkness in a lot of the subject matter, I would have like to have seen more of that. If MacLeod had a little more irony than he had played in the film.

Yeah, it was a much darker version of your character. Although I did kind of like the film, there were moments that worked. I thought Brett Leonard brought kind of an interesting look to the film.

Adrian Paul: I think the look of the film is really good. I think where the problems of the film are, I’ll be honest, I mean people will kill me for this, but I’m always honest about the stuff I do. I’ll say I really like stuff or I really don’t like stuff. But where we could have gotten better was some of the visual effects element. Some of it, I think, we were shooting in the dark in certain respects, like the fight sequences. And the world, understanding what the source was all about, I think we could have been a little clearer on. I think the visual effects could have helped the action rather than make it a little cartoonish occasionally. But I think the acting was strong. And I think some of the look of the film was really good. And it felt like a really big movie and we shot it for a very small budget which I was very pleased about in a sense but… again, I think we could have done better.

It does seem like it is a difficult position for you to be in with your role as executive producer and then trying to separate yourself from it. How early on do you think the problems began?

Adrian Paul: Well I think for me there was some problems with the script itself. I think that’s where we really started finding it. But we ran out of time. To be honest, we ran out of time. We were on a schedule to make it and the script was three-quarters of the way to being developed. And I think if we had another month or two of sitting down, discussing it and really looking at it and having the correct writer on board, to help that. And in my view it would have been David Abramowitz. I think it would have been a much better film and an end product. I think we, I’m not making excuses, I’m just telling it how it was. So I think that was when we started realizing, ‘oh we’ve got [problems]…’ and we started fixing it on the spot and that never helps. Because we change one thing and it affects something else.