Freddy vs. Buffy

[Geddy Peart]

For some odd reason this popped into my mind. And the more I think about it, the more I think Freddy would win. Why do I think this despite Freddy being defeated countless times by "normal" people? Because Buffy isn't a tough character (emotionally and mentally speaking). It's been said that the only reason Buffy has survived this long is because of the support system she has in her friends. The only reason she's beaten most of the "big baddies" is because her friends were backing her up. Without them, she crumbles. Also she'll so desperate to feel an emotional connection that she'll sleep with an evil vampire or another girl "just to feel something".

I admit to not being all-knowing in terms of Buffy stuff, but I've always gotten the feeling that she's emotionally weak.

Now look at the way Freddy operated in ANOES 1, 4 and 5. He literally chops away at the support beams the main heroine has in her friends. Nancy, Lisa, and Alice had to fight him when they had no one left to turn to. And they ended up beating him because they were strong mentally. They found that strength within themselves. From what I've seen of Buffy from the show and comics, she has no real strength without her friends.

Freddy would do the same thing here, IMO. First I'd imgine he'd take out Giles and Willow first because I think they are her strongest allies. Then, he'd slowly whittle away at everyone else using their deaths and Buffy's deepest insecurities to gnaw away at her until she's nothing. He'd save Dawn for last because she's Buffy's only blood relative (that Buffy cares about anyway), then go in for the kill.

Freddy's sick enough to seriously mess with Buffy's head. Hell, he used Alice's own unborn child against her.

So what does everyone else think? I'm looking forward to much more knowledgable Buffy fans giving their thoughts.

Who takes it, Freddy or Buffy?

One more thing, don't even think about reference that dead slayer Buffy beat while the series was still in production. That bitch was no Freddy Krueger.

NOTE: I didn't want to turn this into an actualy poll because I want folks to actually type in their thoughts.

[Michellemabelle]

I think Buffy'd win. She's already won against another dream demon, Der Kindestod. I believe he'd give her a helluva fight though.

[Geddy Peart]

Der Kindestod wasn't a dream demon.

[Michellemabelle]

Wait no, It was the Ugly Man. Never Mind. I misplaced characters. Sorry.

[Geddy Peart]

It's okay, but I don't think The Ugly Man is comparable to Freddy. The Ugly Man was a manifestation of comatose child's fears and inability to deal with the fact that a trusted authority figure (his coach) had beaten him into a coma.

I wouldn't say that's on the same level as an undead child murderer who has 20+ years of experience of terrorizing and killing folks in their dreams.

[Natman]

Here comes a knowledgeable Buffy fan with his thought. Buffy is way stronger emotionally than people give her credit for, she doesn't rely on her friends in a bad way, it's not like there's any point when she's not the leader (except when she's dead), and in the season three premiere Anne, Buffy is surviving on her own, no friends, and literally fights her way out of hell. Still, her friends are her most valuable asset, sure. The episode The Wish shows a Buffy without friends and shows that when you strip away her friends and family, all you have is the slayer. She's tougher, but she's also reckless and gets herself killed. A lot of Buffy's strength comes from the people around her, and she can use it even if she's away from them. Let's not forget that in Dream Warriors, the characters acted similar to Buffy and her friends by utilizing each others talents and using each other to survive. And it worked, for the moment, at least. So yeah, I think Buffy would take this one.

Let's not forget the big thing Freddy and Buffy have in common, however: they don't stay dead.

If either one kills the other, they could just come back really pissed off.

[Darth Sinister]

Buffy is tough physically and emotionally. The problem with Buffy is that she is still human and thus subject to human frailities like any other person. But don't let that fool you. She is stronger than she looks. She was able to push past her feelings towards Angel when she fought Angelus, which is how she was able to defeat him in "Becoming" part 2. And any woman who can send the love of her life to a hell dimension, is far stronger than she looks. She was able to recover from her mother's death and save for one brief moment, she proved to be strong enough to go against Glory. Yes, she has her moments of doubt, but a lot of normal people do. And yes, her friends have helped her out. But as the First Evil said, it still comes down to her.

Against Freddy in the dream world, she would be out matched by him at first. But she has dealt with dream foes before and rallied back. Eventually, she'd discover either on her own or through the help of Giles and Willow that Freddy can be removed from the dream world. After that, it's simply a matter of beating him in a striaght up fight and then either killing him or imprisoning him.

[Geddy Peart]

The episode The Wish shows a Buffy without friends and shows that when you strip away her friends and family, all you have is the slayer.



Which Freddy would do. Starting with Willow and Giles. He'd elimate her friends one by one, starting with the ones who would pose the biggest threat to him.



She's tougher, but she's also reckless and gets herself killed. A lot of Buffy's strength comes from the people around her, and she can use it even if she's away from them. Let's not forget that in Dream Warriors, the characters acted similar to Buffy and her friends by utilizing each others talents and using each other to survive. And it worked, for the moment, at least. So yeah, I think Buffy would take this one.


That's just it, without her friends, she'd be dead by know. Buffy never came across as a thinker to me. The only reason Nancy, and Alice beat Freddy was because they figured out his weaknesses. I don't think Buffy could do that without her friends.


Let's not forget the big thing Freddy and Buffy have in common, however: they don't stay dead.


Buffy only came back from the dead because her friends brought her back. Freddy comes back because he's Freddy.


Buffy is tough physically and emotionally. The problem with Buffy is that she is still human and thus subject to human frailities like any other person. But don't let that fool you. She is stronger than she looks. She was able to push past her feelings towards Angel when she fought Angelus, which is how she was able to defeat him in "Becoming" part 2. And any woman who can send the love of her life to a hell dimension, is far stronger than she looks. She was able to recover from her mother's death and save for one brief moment, she proved to be strong enough to go against Glory. Yes, she has her moments of doubt, but a lot of normal people do. And yes, her friends have helped her out. But as the First Evil said, it still comes down to her.



I remember her getting through all of that because of her friends. Yes, she was the one who sent Angel to Hell but she also ran away because of it. When her mom died, her friends were there for her, and she was doing a crappy job of taking care of things when they weren't around.

I just see Freddy taking full advantage of her human faults.



Against Freddy in the dream world, she would be out matched by him at first. But she has dealt with dream foes before and rallied back. Eventually, she'd discover either on her own or through the help of Giles and Willow that Freddy can be removed from the dream world. After that, it's simply a matter of beating him in a striaght up fight and then either killing him or imprisoning him.


Unless, he really wanted to toy with her, she'd die in their first dream encounter. And about her rallying back against past dream foes, all oif them were a far cry from Freddy. IMO, that's like saying Rick O'Connell from The Mummy films is on the same level as Indiana Jones.

The only way I see Buffy defeating Freddy is if he let's his ego get in the way. The longer he takes to mess with and kill them, the better they're odds are.

[Darth Sinister]

Which Freddy would do. Starting with Willow and Giles. He'd elimate her friends one by one, starting with the ones who would pose the biggest threat to him.

Don't underestimate Giles, Willow, Xander and Dawn. They're very resourceful. Especially Willow, because she's far more powerful than Freddy once she gets mad enough.

That's just it, without her friends, she'd be dead by know. Buffy never came across as a thinker to me. The only reason Nancy, and Alice beat Freddy was because they figured out his weaknesses. I don't think Buffy could do that without her friends.

Not exactly. Buffy's smarter than you think. If she can be the source of all evil, Freddy wouldn't too difficult. Besides, once she realizes that Freddy is playing mind games, she stops being afraid. Take away the fear and he's weak.

Buffy only came back from the dead because her friends brought her back. Freddy comes back because he's Freddy.

That and he has dream demons.

I remember her getting through all of that because of her friends. Yes, she was the one who sent Angel to Hell but she also ran away because of it.

After the fight. But she came back after three months.

When her mom died, her friends were there for her, and she was doing a crappy job of taking care of things when they weren't around.

But she got better at it.

I just see Freddy taking full advantage of her human faults.

Oh, he would. But he'd underestimate her as he did everyone else. He has to use fear and Buffy has surprassed her fears. She has the Slayer Army and she's made peace with her family.


Unless, he really wanted to toy with her, she'd die in their first dream encounter.

That's all Freddy does is toy with his victims. It's his weakness. He's so egotistical that he cannot help but to do so. Worse, he needs the fear of his victims and Buffy stopped being afraid of monsters when she died the first time.

And about her rallying back against past dream foes, all oif them were a far cry from Freddy.

She defeated a Hellgod and the source of all evil. She can take a dream demon.

The only way I see Buffy defeating Freddy is if he let's his ego get in the way. The longer he takes to mess with and kill them, the better they're odds are.

That's always his weakness, as I said. Freddy has to find Buffy's fears and the thing is, she's conquered them.

-She was afraid to die. She did and came back stronger.

-She was afraid of her father didn't love her anymore. She accepted that was the case and found a surrogate father in Giles.

-She was afraid to lose Joyce and she did. But her mother's strength and wisdom lives on in her.

-She was afraid to lose Dawn, but she's learned that Dawn can take care of herself now.

-She was afraid that something bad would happen to Willow, Xander, Tara and Anya. It did happen to each of them. But when all is said and done, they still love her and still supported her.

-She was afraid that she wouldn't be enough to stem the tide of evil and so she changed the rules, in order to balance the scales and get past that fear.

[Spade]

I'd vote for Buffy. I think she can take Freddy. Darth Sinister and Natman made all the points I would (and a lot more lol).

Although I have to disagree with Darth about the Freddy fear thing. I know his power comes from fear (as stated in FvJ), but couldn't he just get his power by making the Scooby Gang afraid. I mean lord knows Xander would be afraid and after he kills Xander he would become stronger. Wouldn't the fear of her friends make Freddy stronger or does it have to be the person whose dream he is in?

I do think that Buffy could take him though. And honestly I think Freddy wouldn't stand a chance against a pissed off Willow. She's the most powerful of the whole bunch.

[Geddy Peart]

All good points Darth but I disagree on a few fronts.

Don't underestimate Giles, Willow, Xander and Dawn. They're very resourceful. Especially Willow, because she's far more powerful than Freddy once she gets mad enough.



That's why he'd get rid of Willow and Giles right off the bat. Remember in ANOES 4 he took out Joey and Kincaid in the same night.



That's always his weakness, as I said. Freddy has to find Buffy's fears and the thing is, she's conquered them.



Another point I disagree on. I don't care who you are, everyone fears something. Freddy could make Buffy have such a realistic nightmare that she'd be afraid of crossing the street. Even if it was just a little. If Freddy doesn't have any fear immediately available, he creates it.

The only thing we agree on is Freddy's ego. Often he starts out good, but as he diminishes the number of victims, he gets cocky. I wonder how that would affect Buffy, if she lost Willow, Giles, Xander, etc in a matter of days and then had to fight Freddy on his turf. Would she be able to hold it together and form a plan or would she charge in blind with anger?

[Darth Sinister]

[I]I'd vote for Buffy. I think she can take Freddy. Darth Sinister and Natman made all the points I would (and a lot more lol).

Although I have to disagree with Darth about the Freddy fear thing. I know his power comes from fear (as stated in FvJ), but couldn't he just get his power by making the Scooby Gang afraid. I mean lord knows Xander would be afraid and after he kills Xander he would become stronger. Wouldn't the fear of her friends make Freddy stronger or does it have to be the person whose dream he is in?

Xander's only fear stems from a fear of clowns, which he managed to conquer. The only other one, might be his role with the Scoobies, which if you caught him prior to "The Zeppo" or "The Yoko Factor", could be used against him. But after losing an eye and Anya, he's pretty much doesn't have anything left to be afraid of.

That's why he'd get rid of Willow and Giles right off the bat. Remember in ANOES 4 he took out Joey and Kincaid in the same night.

He'd have a hellva time with Giles, because Giles survived Angelus and has faced his fear over losing Buffy. So the only advantage would be using Jenny and that's a slim one. Willow's only fear would be losing control, but if he pushes it too far, she'd snap and turn the tables on him way worse than he's ever had before.

[Geddy Peart]

He'd have a hellva time with Giles, because Giles survived Angelus and has faced his fear over losing Buffy. So the only advantage would be using Jenny and that's a slim one. Willow's only fear would be losing control, but if he pushes it too far, she'd snap and turn the tables on him way worse than he's ever had before.

That's what Giles and Willow can do in reality. Would Willow have the same abilities in the dream world? That's Freddy's truf, and I think he has more control and power there than Willow would.

Also, say he kills Willow causing her soul to "belong" to him. Wouldn't that give him a huge edge considering how powerful Willow is?

[Natman]

People are still themselves in the dream world, they don't lose abilities, they only gain them. We've seen their dreams plenty of times so yes, they would still have their abilities in the dreams, maybe even some more. I'm not sure if he could gain Willow's magic, but it'd be interesting to see if that would work. He ate a lot of souls, but he never gained any of their particular powers, he just did as he pleased. Also, props to Darth for making most of the points I'd wanted to in a much clearer and concise way.

[Geddy Peart]

People are still themselves in the dream world, they don't lose abilities, they only gain them. We've seen their dreams plenty of times so yes, they would still have their abilities in the dreams, maybe even some more. I'm not sure if he could gain Willow's magic, but it'd be interesting to see if that would work. He ate a lot of souls, but he never gained any of their particular powers, he just did as he pleased. Also, props to Darth for making most of the points I'd wanted to in a much clearer and concise way.


But in ANOES 3 Will tried to use magic on Freddy in the dream world, and it didn't really have any effect. And I wasn't saying Freddy would be able to use Willow's powers. Considering she's such a powerful witch, would acquiring her soul for his use make him stronger because of how supernaturally strong she is?

[Natman]

Maybe, maybe not. We may be in a whole new playground with new rules here, I do know that Will's magic powers (and, uh, walking powers for that matter) did not exist outside of the dream world, so that would be a key difference.

[Geddy Peart]

I see a grood premise for a fan fiction written by an unbiased third party.

[Natman]

Too late. If there's a winner, whoever wrote it would be called biased. Unless Buffy decapitates him but, oh, he winks.

[Theta]

I haven't seen any buffy stuff (saw a few TV episodes though), so I'd say Freddy :freddy:.

[Darth Sinister]

That's what Giles and Willow can do in reality. Would Willow have the same abilities in the dream world? That's Freddy's truf, and I think he has more control and power there than Willow would.

Freddy couldn't stop Alice, Rick, Kristen, Joey, Kincaid, Taryn, Mark and Will from having their abilities in the dream world. Nor Tracy from having her martial arts skill. Nor Jason from being what he was in the real world.

Also, say he kills Willow causing her soul to "belong" to him. Wouldn't that give him a huge edge considering how powerful Willow is?

If he could kill her, maybe.

But in ANOES 3 Will tried to use magic on Freddy in the dream world, and it didn't really have any effect. And I wasn't saying Freddy would be able to use Willow's powers. Considering she's such a powerful witch, would acquiring her soul for his use make him stronger because of how supernaturally strong she is?

Only because it was Will's imagination which Freddy didn't believe in. Actual magick, which Willow has, is a whole different ballgame. That's why Will was beaten. He had no actual magic. Just what he could think of, based on a book. Willow studied actual black magick and absorbed all of it from the tomes that Giles had in the Magick Box.