Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday

[BlakeTyner]

Well, it wasn't, really, but here's the place to discuss New Line's first attempt at a Jason flick. Gnaw on a oozing black heart and talk about it right here.

~BT

[Nancy Thompson]

you know the movie would have been better for me if it was not for the body hopping thing. that got boring as hell. but it was way better then JTM IMO so thats good thing. And also good about it was for one person Creighton Duke! he was a badass!!

Creighton Duke: I'll have a Voorhees burger and a side of Jason fingers

[Rich]

I liked the story and Jason's ability to possess. It was only for one movie and it was something different. Also, this was not New Line's first attempt at Jason. The studio distributed the film but it was produced and shot independantly. New Line's first attempt at a Jason movie that they were actually creatively involved in was Freddy vs. Jason.

New Line Cinema, that makes me think of a little girl, in a pink dress, sticking a hot dog through her doughnut.

[CanadianFonzie]

this is another horror movie that I'm not sure if I'll ever buy, but I do end up missing it and I wouldn't mind finding some way to watch it...I might buy this some day, but I don't know, it was the first (and only) Jason film of the 90's, and the way it was filmed gives off such a different vibe than the previous 8...that's the main reason why I don't like it comparing it to the other 8

[MaDMaNMaRz]

I've never really been a big fan of JGTH. The only thing that makes it watchable, IMO, is the gore.

This is sort of like Halloween III.....If this wasn't a part of the F13 series, and it was a stand-alone film, it'd be great. BUT, as part of the series, it's a huge turd.

[CampNewBlood]

My least favorite of all of them. All of the body jumping annoyed me.

They shoulda called it Invasion of the Body Jumpers instead of Jason Goes To Hell.

[Wheatjedi]

I always get a kick out of watching the tent scene knowing that the two actors were ex-boyfriend/girlfriend in real life. And you know.... the commentary on the DVD makes this film soooo much more fun!

[CampNewBlood]

They were? I never knew that. Cool....lol.

[Wheatjedi]

Yep. I wonder how awkward that was for them.....

[sCabbOy]

A lot of the movie is entertaining and then you are reminded it's a 'Jason" movie and it goes blah. It would have been much better w/o Jason at all and Creighton going around THINKING Jason was body jumping and it really never showing if he was or wasn't.

It would have set Duke up to be either insane or justified.

[Rich]

I think this was a much better movie then Jason Takes Manhattan.

[CampNewBlood]

I have to admit, Joey B was funny as hell. I loved her character.

"Shut the fuck up. You're with a fuckin' felon!".....LOL

[Joshg]

I like this movie more and more. It's not good, (even if it got 3 stars!?) but it's a ride, and gory scenes abide. At least there's some atmosphere, which is more than I can say about Parts X and FvJ. (for the most part)

Actually, if it was no body jumping, and just Jason killing, (same scenes), it may have been my favorite zombie Jason flick. Alas, it blows. :D 4/10

[DRE]

People don't really give this film the credit it deserves, it flat out made a point to be the "different" chapter and succeeded as a neat little flick in its own right. And it gave us great gore, a nasty animalistic Jason (when he was onscreen) and the coolest character in Friday history, Creighton Duke.

I actually think it would have been an even better film had Jason been in his own body for the entire film.

[The Tall Man]

Dre, how could it have NOT been a better movie with Jason proper in the movie? Hell, they could have said something like "Jason's extremely weak now because of being killed by the FBI for XXXX reason and has to be "reborn" through a blood relative to regain his original power." And boom, you'd have Jason proper in the movie.

I think JGTH is a fine film... but it's a shitty Friday the 13th and an even worse final chapter. When you set out to do a final chapter, it's not the time for new gimmicks! It's time to reflect and celebrate what made to older movies so great. But then again, this was only the "Final Friday" because after New Line made Cunningham put Jason into the movie, he wanted to get away from Jason and do his own Crystal Lake-related stuff without that burden.

Sour grapes all around.

T.M.

[Hockey Mask]

This movie bit and bit hard. Soooo disappointing. My only positive reactions to it are the opening Jason scence with the FBI chick was done well and I remeber seeing this in the theater when Jason pops up at the end the crowd went nuts. But that had more to do with not seeing Jason for the last hour than it being a particularly good scene.

[Lammert]

I think JGTH is a fine film... but it's a shitty Friday the 13th and an even worse final chapter. When you set out to do a final chapter, it's not the time for new gimmicks! It's time to reflect and celebrate what made to older movies so great. But then again, this was only the "Final Friday" because after New Line made Cunningham put Jason into the movie, he wanted to get away from Jason and do his own Crystal Lake-related stuff without that burden.

I agree 100% procent with you Tallman.
I enjoy watching this movie, but to me has nothing to do with previous chapters.

[James M]

I agree with the sentiments that this movie is pretty good by itself, but is a horrible attempt at a Friday entry. I understand they were going for something different, but you don't just make up wild stuff in the ninth film of a series. Part 1 states Jason was Pamela's only child (and before you say Jessica had a different mother, come on...you know damn well when they wrote Friday 1 they meant Jason was an only child, no siblings). And Jason being able to change bodies after six films featuring him where he didn't show this ability is just a horrible disregard for continuity, far beyond any goofs in the films before it. Still, I like JGTH more than Jason X and FVJ, since I find JGTH a more enjoyable movie despite its problems.

[Fan of Freddy]

As it stands this film is my favorite Jason film. I say Jason film, not F13 film. I consider all the films New Line has made with Jason to be separate entities from the original series. The only thing that it suffers from, in my opinion, is poor writing. There's enough plot holes in here to make a block of Swiss cheese the size of Texas. I can easily understand why people have problems with certain aspects of the story; things that seem to come out of nowhere with no explanation. The way I see it this film could easily have added the newer elements through proper explanation.

For example, we could have had Jason's blood relatives fit right in had they simply said something like "Elias (Jason's father) had children under a different mother". Makes sense right?

As for the body hopping, they could have started that right at the beginning had they followed on from Part 8. Jason's body was destroyed in the sewers of New York, whose to say that didn’t allow the Hellbaby to escape, gradually finding it's way back to Crystal Lake through different hosts?

See, I think that with proper writing a lot of the problems people have with this movie could have been good pros for a new entry. Just add a bit more back-story about Jason's history and you could have a great final film.

Of course, I still respect the final product we got. Adam Marcus and co. created a rather interesting vision for Jason's last crusade, as it were, and I do enjoy a lot of aspects they added. I think the last 20 minutes or so is the past part of any movie with Jason; he’s brutal, focused, and just down right nasty. And while it might have looked a bit cheesy, the “going to hell” sequence came off rather well. If I had to rate it I’d go somewhere in the neighborhood of 6.5 to 7/10.

[The Tall Man]

Fan, you're absolutely right. This could have been explained had it started out as a Jason movie, but Jason wound up being wedged into the story over a weekend after Cunningham's douchery.

T.M.

[Fan of Freddy]

I suppose some fans should at least be thankful that they got Jason at all. New Line seemed to step in at the right moment. I think that the biggest mistake they made was not getting creatively involved right from the get go.

[Fancy Corkscrew]

I loved Jason's look in this one. to me it was second only to part 7. If only he would have appeared this way through the whole movie I would have loved it. It just is not interesting to see normal looking people being Jason.

[Melanie Jarvis]

I think this movie is way underestimated. I agree that the body hopping was not the best way to go, but after seeing JTM, this movie seemed like an Oscar winner.

[Fancy Corkscrew]

Oh it has great elements. The gore is top notch. You get a great sex scene that leads directly into one of the best kills ever. The problem I have is that it was not Jason. It was random people possesed by Jason. That sort of cheesy horror takes the Friday atmosphere out of it to me.

[Wheatjedi]

I liked it. I saw it opening night, and I've liked ever since. And the audio commentary on the DVD is one of the best ever!

[girlychaos]

I really like the opening scene....then it's just not what I'd call "great"....but I like it anyway. The tent scene is really cool too...the body jumping didn't do it for me though.

[Utellme]

The thing that i disliked the most is that Jason was not on screen long enough and the body jumping didn't work for me or the lil Jason monster.And the opening scene where they kill Jason i like that cause ive heard people for years saying just go and blow him to pieces i just wish they could of brought him back a lil different instead of body jumping.

[girlychaos]

Exactly my point.

[sCabbOy]

I don't mind the lack of Jason at all.

People may hate me for saying this, but Jason looked so ridiculously shitty in this movie that I didn't want to see him.

[Utellme]

Why what made him look so bad im not arguing that fact.Im just interested to hear your view point

[Autobotsdie]

I thought it was kinda stupid the way they kept passing that heart from one person to another and posses that person. What was the point of it.

[sCabbOy]

Why what made him look so bad im not arguing that fact.Im just interested to hear your view point


I didn't like how fat he looked. I didn't like his head, and he looked sorta like a gorilla... IMO of course.

[Utellme]

Yeah his head looked huge didn't it ?

[CampNewBlood]

Yes it did. His overall look in this movie just was weird...well, the few miniscule minutes we did see him.

I didn't care for it at all.

[Lammert]

You know whats funny... Jason has more screentime here then in some of the other sequels.
I never complained about it. My only complaint is that the storyline and stuff doesn't fit in with the Friday mythology.

[The Tall Man]

Scabboy, Jason looks exactly like what someone who had been hit with toxic waste would look like... well, a more solid, zombified version.

Check out Emil at the end of "Robocop" and you've got something resembling Jason's look.

I can understand you're not liking it, but I appalud KNB for a.) not ignoring Part 8 (and the others like Cunningham wanted) and b.) trying tobe realistic about him surviving Part 8.

T.M.

[sCabbOy]

True, T.M.... but still. I didn't like the look.

[DRE]

The JGTH look is the second best make up job during Kane's era, IMHO. Far better than JTM and JX, as well as New Beginning. In addition to keeping continuity with part 8, KNB designed it as an homage to Fullerton's part 2 head and JCB's part 7 body.

This new raw and brutal look, combined with Hodder's "Wildman" take on the character in this outing would have made for something very interesting, had Jason been in his own skin for the length of the film.

In this alternate ending of the film, I think Jason is the wildest he's been since searching for Chris at the end of part 3. Just notice when he's clawing through the monkey bars.

Extended ending of JGTH (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_ivYqTxFMKw&mode=related&search=)

[Dave Dunwoody]

The extended fight between Steven and Jason should've been left in. It's the best damn fight in the entire series and that includes his bout with Freddy. This is an instance of Kane effectively communicating Jason's emotion, as well as putting his stuntman body to good use. And Jason reborn - in his own flesh once again, and loving it - just thrashes the living crap out of Steven, who refuses to give up for the sake of his infant daughter.

[Shoesalesman]

The extended fight between Steven and Jason should've been left in. It's the best damn fight in the entire series and that includes his bout with Freddy. This is an instance of Kane effectively communicating Jason's emotion, as well as putting his stuntman body to good use. And Jason reborn - in his own flesh once again, and loving it - just thrashes the living crap out of Steven, who refuses to give up for the sake of his infant daughter.

I completely agree. I wasn't sure who's resolve was stronger; Jason returning to his old form or Steven fighting for his child.

[Nancy Thompson]

I think this was a much better movie then Jason Takes Manhattan.

And Jason X

[Rich]

I liked the noises he made in this one. I think it made his preasense more intimidating.

And Jason X

I think the three New Line movies are pretty much a tie. Jason Goes to Hell was the best made one out of them all. It had the reality feeling while the other two had a more comic book feeling.

[sCabbOy]

Well, the make up in JGTH wasn't bad... just not the taste of Jason I wanted. It's far better than JTM and JX... easily.

[Rich]

The gore effects on the other hand were the best we've had since Tom Savini's efforts.

[Joshg]

I agree. The gore effects were great!
But I enjoyed the Jason look. :( He looked...different, but it was fun for me. Better than a metal monkey, I say.
The end fight scene looked better with the vines/plant-thingy/thorns? wrapping across Jason's face. That added an extra dark presence.
Now, all we have are muppets from hell. :(

[Wheatjedi]

The gore effects on the other hand were the best we've had since Tom Savini's efforts.

Those KNB boys really do know their gore effects. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they won an Academy Award for their work? Not for a Friday film, but for something else....

[Joshg]

"And the award for goriest make-up effects goes to..."

:)

[Wheatjedi]

KNB won an Academy Award in 2006 for The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

[Rich]

Hell those guys learned from Tom on the set of Day of the Dead, so it is no suprise that they would win a make-up award one day. They have done so much from the Evil Dead sequels to shows like Hercules and Xena to modern movies like Hills Have Eyes, Texas Chainsaw, Freddy vs. Jason, and Land of the Dead...you name it.

[sCabbOy]

My only gripe with KNB is that with movies with lower budgets for gore they put on unknown artists for those movies and the gore just doesn't look that great.

But, Nicotero, Berger and Kurtzman were gods when it was just them and a few other "helpers".

[The Tall Man]

Josh, those were tree demons (demons of some sort)... and they too were "muppets".

T.M.

[Lammert]

Here is the original demon ending from the workprint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfDqNZxGV8M

[Shoesalesman]

The gore effects on the other hand were the best we've had since Tom Savini's efforts.

Good call, Rich. I loved the extra attention to the gore in JGTH.

[Utellme]

What other film since part 1 was he off screen more not counting part 5 either ?

And yes the end with the extended Jason fight scene grabbing threw monkey bars grunting that would of been nice some sound from Jason and some extra Jason on screen before ending it and they should of unmasked him all ways unmask Jason hate when they dont.

[The Tall Man]

Utellme, there was a cut scene of Jason unmasked.. sort of. There was a scene of the Hellbaby as an adult or a monster or something that Duke fights briefly that was removed. The closeup of the thing's face is what Jason would have looked in JGTH (it has a missing eye, an ax mark, droopy lips, etc).

T.M.

[The New Blood]

I wish that NLC would release this movie in its true uncut form, with the adult hellbaby appearance and everything else. It seems like it would have been much better with all that stuff.

Does anyone know if there is an actual reason why they have not?

[Utellme]

Utellme, there was a cut scene of Jason unmasked.. sort of. There was a scene of the Hellbaby as an adult or a monster or something that Duke fights briefly that was removed. The closeup of the thing's face is what Jason would have looked in JGTH (it has a missing eye, an ax mark, droopy lips, etc).

T.M.
id like to see that clip

[The Tall Man]

New Blood, workprints don't generally get a release.

And New Line Cinema has this idiotic policy that if they don't have a negative of it, they don't put it on DVD (that's why there's no Nightmare 5 unrated because it was originally mastered for video).

T.M.

[Lammert]

A scene that was in the script, or supposed to be shot was a scene were Duke is at Crystal Lake with his fiancee in a small boot and a young Jason jumps up and grabs his fiancee. She drowns and then the whole Jason obsession starts with Duke.

[JVY2K]

A scene that was in the script, or supposed to be shot was a scene were Duke is at Crystal Lake with his fiancee in a small boot and a young Jason jumps up and grabs his fiancee. She drowns and then the whole Jason obsession starts with Duke.

In a small boot, huh Lammert? Duke had gotten awfully big by JGTH to have fit in a small boot when he was younger ;)...

[Ron]

Duke slept in a thimble when he was a baby:D

[Wheatjedi]

In a small boot, huh Lammert? Duke had gotten awfully big by JGTH to have fit in a small boot when he was younger ;)...

That's why it was cut from the movie. New Line was worried that audiences wouldn't get why Duke and his honey were in a boot. :)

[Dead Cell]

I remeber seeing this in the theater when Jason pops up at the end the crowd went nuts. But that had more to do with not seeing Jason for the last hour than it being a particularly good scene.

I saw an interview with Adam Marcus once and he said that was exactly what they were going for. It was a few years after JGTH had been out and he was sounding sort of apologetic. He was aware that JGTH didn't really fly with the fan community. He did say that he wanted the audience to "miss Jason" so that when the real deal finally appears back on screen, everyone would just lose it.

Me personally, I like this movie. Of course, when I first saw it I wasn't really into the Friday movies much, so the body-hopping didn't bother me. I guess if I had been following the series for years, it might irk me some. So yeah, I just look past the body-hopping and focus on the story and what's happening with the characters.
I always looked at Steven Freeman as being like one of the teens from the previous 8 Fridays, except he was a bit older and had to be forcibly dragged into adulthood. He's dealing with the consequences of going into the woods and screwing around with his high-school honey. Now he's got a kid and he's got to start acting like a man.
The scene that really drives it home for me is when he's invited along to hang out with the hitch hiking campers, knowing full well that he could have himself an awesome one-night stand with some hotties. There's that moment where you can see he's disappointed. He knows that back in the day he wouldn't have given it a second thought, but he's got responsibilities now.

*EDIT*
I just remembered! New Line Cinema only added the campers AFTER the test audience had demanded some boobies! To think, that one awesome moment of clarity for Steven would've been missed if the audience weren't so adament about getting their booby quotient!

I also like the relationship between Steven and his cop buddy, Randy. Here you had two guys that had obviously grown up together and been friends forever. But whereas Randy became an upstanding cop, Steven is still wearing his old lettermans' jacket and not doing much of anything. It sucks to be the guy that's standing still while all your friends around you have grown up and moved on to better things. All that aside, I still thought the buddy thing was great and worked really well for the movie. Especially love it when these two "friends" beat the crap out of each other. :p

And I might be the only one, but I thought it was cool how Jason got dragged down to Hell. In a sense, he was still suffocating and drowning; just this time it was from choking on dirt and not water.

[Killa Pimp]

This was just not a Frday movie to me:
It didn't have that Friday feeling.

I though I was watching the Hidden part 2 or something.
Plus the whole Hell-Baby sub-plot should never -ever be revisited.

I like the fact that they tried something different, but this was way out in left field.

Let's get the series back to the camp.

[Dead Cell]

*cracks knuckles*

I'm gonna' get all deep about the symbolism again, so watch out.

.
.
.
.
.

Still here? Okay. Going along with the whole theme of growing up we have Jason, who must literally grow up. From hell-baby to adult Jason form. The difference between Jason and Steven (aside from the obvious) would be that Jason goes right back to doing what he's always done. Stephen, of course, must break his habits and start living his life differently now that he's a dad.

Steven is quite literally dragged across the playground by Jason and thrown onto the jungle-gym and past a teetor totter (IIRC). I always thought it was a bit odd that all these playground toys were in the Voorhees front yard, but it takes on different meaning if you see it as Jason trying to keep Stephen from reaching his goal of being a grown man.

Go play! Play! Here's your monkey bars! Here's your jungle gym! Play on them!

Stephen does manage to kick Jason's ass though, and in the final moments of the movie you can see he's taken off that letterman's jacket, that had identified him as an immature kid through the whole movie, and wrapped his baby in it. Awww.

[Ron]

I hated how Jason kept grunting in this.

[sCabbOy]

Better than him laughing like he did in JTM

[Ron]

did he? I have to rewatch. what part is that?

[The Tall Man]

Jason doesn't laugh in JTM. That's the shitty redone "Jason Sound Effect" for the movie.

T.M.

[sCabbOy]

When he breaks the chains and when he comes out of the water near the cruise ship- it to me sounds like someone's saying "hahaha"

[Wheatjedi]

If the "laughing" thing is from when he came back to life and just before he climbed on Jim and Suzy's boat, I really don't think that was supposed to be Jason laughing.

[girlychaos]

If the "laughing" thing is from when he came back to life and just before he climbed on Jim and Suzy's boat, I really don't think that was supposed to be Jason laughing.

I'm glad to know that cause it would be as bad as Jason's afro in JX!

[Wheatjedi]

The afro..... oh, the afro. That was just wrong. So very, very wrong.

[girlychaos]

Yeah....tell me about it. Jason laughing would've been just as wrong though...don't you think?

[The New Blood]

I think this movie is actually pretty damn good. It was really well made compared to the other films in the series. It actually has good acting, with no annoying characters and tons of gore. The body hopping didn't bother me at all. After all, he was blown up. Jason looked pretty cool. I like the head, but not so much the clothes. The part I didn't like was that now Jason had a sibling. That was pretty dumb.

[sCabbOy]

I wish I knew what it really was 'cus it sounded like laughing!

[Lammert]

Jason Goes To Hell was a very well done horrorfilm. The gore and scenes work perfect, one of the best acting in any F13 and a very good and fresh soundtrack.

My only flaws are that the hellbaby/voorhees family thing don't feel like a Friday the 13th at all, and the muppethands at the end are really silly.

[Ron]

I just thought with a title like "Jason Goes to Hell:The Final Friday" we would have gotten something great and larger than life. Maybe some past characters returning?? anything. Anything would have been better than this lame blood soaked excuse for a film. I must say that I do really like the commentary track for this film though.

[JVY2K]

I hated JGTH when I first saw it, but after a few viewing and working in a few theories of my own, I really started to enjoy the movie. The Hellbaby I excused as a demon from hell that manifested itself within Jason to aid in the body hopping process. It was not Jason himself but a means for his spirit to body hop until he could become reborn. Once the Hellbaby bonded with Diana, it died and Jason's spirit mixed with Diana's blood formed Jason once again. I like to think the chunks of his blown up body disapeared from the morgue and reasembled themselves in the Voorhees house basement, thus making Jason reborn!

I'm also with Lammert on the acting being suberb in this movie. It's a quick well woven storyline that works it's way well into the plot. And Duke was purely badass! The ending of the workprint is also allot better than the theatrical cut! I'd love to see it restored one day.

[Lammert]

Duke was great!
I loved the line: "now see, she's only your lady becuase she didn't have a taste of the Duke yet..."

Whats also silly is that in the released version Duke is just in jail, while in the workprint they have a scene were they busted him becuase he was in the morgue checking for Diana's body, and he says. "I tried to get it, but someone else got it before I could..."

[Ron]

The finger breaking scene was pretty cool.

[JVY2K]

Duke was great!
I loved the line: "now see, she's only your lady becuase she didn't have a taste of the Duke yet..."

Whats also silly is that in the released version Duke is just in jail, while in the workprint they have a scene were they busted him becuase he was in the morgue checking for Diana's body, and he says. "I tried to get it, but someone else got it before I could..."

That and the scene at the end where he says "It's not about the money anymore" is suppose to be where he tells Jessica about how Jason killed his fiancee'. I wish that would have made it to screen. The TV version has the prank call sequence, which is pretty awesome as well!

[Lammert]

The fiancee thing was never filmed.. I would love to have seen the boat(not boot ;)) scene, explaining more about Duke.

[JVY2K]

The fiancee thing was never filmed.. I would love to have seen the boat(not boot ;)) scene, explaining more about Duke.

I know it was never filmed, I meant that scene was where Duke was suppose to reveal that.

I wonder what kinda boots they used. Heavy work boots? Nah, probably rain boots. Better boyancy in the lake ;)...

[Lammert]

I think Duke was more into sandals at the time...

[The Tall Man]

I wish I knew what it really was 'cus it sounded like laughing!
I just told ya, Scab... it's the "Jason sound effect" for the film. Since they didn't have Manfredini, they couldn't use "chh chh chh ha ha ha ha". So for this one, we got "ha-ha-ha-ha" and every so often "jason-jason-jason-jason..." That's ALL it boils down to.

I like to think the chunks of his blown up body disapeared from the morgue and reasembled themselves in the Voorhees house basement, thus making Jason reborn!
In the TV version, it was revealed that the FBI cremated Jason's remains. Duke responds with "They could've danced a jig on his dick and fed it to goats, it wouldn't matter."

T.M.

[The Dream Master]

Lines like that are the reason Duke kicks ass. Too bad he had to die, though. He was a great character.

[Wheatjedi]

I just wish Duke could have given Jason a little more of a fight.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

Yea handcuffin himself to Jason was jus suicide!!

[Wheatjedi]

He definitely got put through it (metal bar through leg, hand crushed, back broken, then squished), but I thought he'd put up more of a decent fight when I first saw the film.

[Darth Sinister]

Yea handcuffin himself to Jason was jus suicide!!

That was the point. He was buying Jessica time to get the dagger so she can kill Jason. When that failed, it was up to Steven.

[Lammert]

Yea handcuffin himself to Jason was jus suicide!!

Thats what bugged me, he died to easy... at the beginning of the film I hoped for a big fight between him and Jason.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

Id rather seen Duke fight Jason then Steven cuz that was just horrible! I mean didnt Hawes try to attack Jason with a shovel and it broke off? In the fight sequence Steven actually had a chance to defend himself thats when i was like this is a mess..Steven was a punk..Duke broke his finger with ease and Jason cant lay a fatal blow?:eek:

[Darth Sinister]

Jason was toying with Steven. Testing out the new body.

[The New Blood]

Jason was toying with Steven. Testing out the new body.

He would have tested it out a lot better if he just ripped Steven's head off.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

He would have tested it out a lot better if he just ripped Steven's head off.

Pretty much! Jason was like a bully in school pushing Steven around..then some type of cat and mouse game when he tossed Steven in that thingamajig..it was like superman losing his superpowers

[Scarecrow]

Whatever you may think of the plot, I can't believe anyone could not love the simply INSANE ammount of OTT gore in this one.

The tent scene is just NUTS!


- Scarecrow

[Nancy Thompson]

Duke Was the best in the movie He has the best quotes

"She's only your girl 'cause she ain't had a taste of the Duke yet."


Robert Campbell: I'm going to say a couple of words to you and I want you to say the first thing that comes into your mind.
Creighton Duke: Okay.
Robert Campbell: Jason Voorhees.
Creighton Duke: That makes me think of a little girl in a pink dress sticking a hot dog through a doughnut.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

I knew Duke had that badass side of himself back in 21 jump street days.. too bad he didnt put up too much of a fight

[sCabbOy]

Duke was all talk anyways. Most people like him are.

He was better in X Files than 21 ;)

[Rich]

I think he had the balls to back up his talk. He did sacrafice his life to allow Jessica and Steve to have a fighting chance against Jason.

[Dave Dunwoody]

Duke is all balls. A taste of the Duke would render you impotent from its sheer potency.

Creighton Duke roundhouse kicked Chuck Norris into next week. The Duke would say hello but he doesn't want to wake your mother; she's sleeping beside him. Creighton Duke polishes his boots with the tears of the unforgiven. He cuts diamonds with his tongue and cut his teeth on the Idaho Skin Stretcher to get himself ready for the main event: Jason Voorhees. Sure, Jason killed him but not before Duke filled the masked one's eye with the spit he'd been saving to swap with Jason's momma in Hell.

The Duke is awesome.

[The Tall Man]

Once again, Thac knows the score.

T.M.

[The Tall Man]

Today is the anniversary of the release of "Jason Goes to Hell"... in honor, everyone hop into somebody you hate.

T.M.

[Deathscythe]

Its also the one month anniversary of this forum.

Anyway I hated how Jason looked in this movie, althrough the poster is damn cool.

[Ron]

I really liked the look of the metalic mask in the trailer. I expected so much more out of this movie than the shitfest we got.

[El Rooto]

My least favorite Friday, my favorite gore F/X.

[DRE]

Such an underrated classic that could have been much better had Jason been in his own body for the duration. I think his look in this film is one of the most raw and sickening looks he has ever had, and I love it!

I just love the raw and guttural "Butcher" Jason that Kane portrayed this time around.

[sCabbOy]

I liked the absence of Jason, I thought the movie was alright. I just didn't like it's fit in the F13th saga and all of the things it introduced into it. Therefore, as a F13th movie, I disliked it.

[DRE]

I understand what they were trying to accomplish with the absence of Jason, but you can't have some of the best violence of the series not be done by Jason's true form.

[Autobotsdie]

The only part I liked is at the end where Freddys hand comes out of the ground and drags the mask underground while laughing.

[sCabbOy]

True DRE, but at the same time if it was not a Jason film it'd be kick ass. It feels like an unassociated movie that was morphed into a Jason flick.

[DRE]

It's the body hopping that moves it away from traditional Friday the 13th, if they had just left the film as a bounty hunter who knows the secret of how to truly vanquish Jason Voorhees for good and everything else that made the film unique and good (The more adult characters, the violent murder set pieces among other things) it would have stood as one of the better sequels.

[The Tall Man]

I understand what they were trying to accomplish with the absence of Jason, but you can't have some of the best violence of the series not be done by Jason's true form.
Dre, I agree with that and to embellish on what you said... when you're billing something as the "Final" entry, that is not the time to "try something new". That is the time to reflect upon and celebrate what made the previous entries so great.

It feels like an unassociated movie that was morphed into a Jason flick.
Which is exactly what it was.

T.M.

[Rich]

Which is exactly what it was.

Not entirely. It was originally planned to be a movie about Jason's brother Elias (who has the same name as his father), but New Line said they would not distribute the movie if Jason was not in the movie. So, it was re-written. I enjoy it. I like the different story line. They only used it in one movie, but for that one movie, it was a nice breath of fresh air into the series.

[The Tall Man]

Not entirely. It was originally planned to be a movie about Jason's brother Elias (who has the same name as his father), but New Line said they would not distribute the movie if Jason was not in the movie.
I know that. I told you. :)

But Scab said "morphed into a Jason flick". Elias Voorhees eating Jason's heart and then body hopping around is not "a Jason flick".

T.M.

[Ron]

Adam Marcus once referred to this as a film 'for the fans, by the fans' and it was neither. You cannot even place this in the same chronology as ANY of the Friday films! What you have here is a couple of overzealous filmakers who want to add there two cent to an iconic horror franchise, but just don't make the cut! This film, however, gets a 4/10 for great death scenes and gore, and trying to establish a mythology for Jason. I would have given this film a 3, but after much thought I figured that giving the actual 'Jason" such limited screentime, was a breath of fresh air and a throwback to the earlier Fridays.:jason:

[The Dream Master]

I think I might be one of the few people in the world who actually place JGTH in the upper tier of Friday films. It's definately grown into one of my favorites over the years. As Tally has pointed out before, it's pretty bad as a "final" film, but if you don't consider it as that, it's an awesome entry. Great production values, great character development, and awesome gore.

[The Tall Man]

DM, I agree with everything you've said. It's a slick-looking movie.

T.M.

[Rich]

I know that. I told you

Are you the one who told me? I know it was said on on of the documenteries I have seen as well.

it's pretty bad as a "final" film, but if you don't consider it as that

I think it would have made a good final film. Jason is in hell. You can't get more final then that. The thing is, though, you can't consider it that because, well, it isn't. They made two films after it.

[The Dream Master]

Oh, I think the ending is pretty suitable if it had, in fact, been the final film. It's all the added stuff to the mythology that feels out of place if it was supposed to be the final film.

[Rich]

The new powers did seem to come out of nowhere, but remember when the movie was made. That seemed to be the era of the brand new backstory with other films like Freddy's Dead and Halloween - The Curse of Michael Myers being made.

[BlakeTyner]

Oh, I think the ending is pretty suitable if it had, in fact, been the final film. It's all the added stuff to the mythology that feels out of place if it was supposed to be the final film.

I'd have to agree with you, there. It's like if Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows had said that Voldemort was actually Harry's father, and that there was some magic wand that was never mentioned in any of the previous books that was the only thing that could kill Voldie, and only if used by his own blood. Oh, and Voldie had another child with another woman, that we've never heard about (or even been teased about) and that kid shows up in the final act to help Harry kill Voldie with the Voorhees wand.

Yeah, that could have made a neat story, but it's rather out of place given all the books that came before.

~Blake

PS - I still like JGTH, though.

[The Dream Master]

Yeah, I have no problem all the new stuff. It was something new, which is a good thing once you've reached the ninth installment in a series. It just doesn't work if you're going to do something new and end the series at the same time. Of course, anyone with half a brain knew that JGTH was going to be the "final" Friday about as much as part four was the "final" chapter.

[Deathscythe]

I think I might be one of the few people in the world who actually place JGTH in the upper tier of Friday films.

Jason Goes to Hell is my 3rd favorite, only behind Jason Lives and The Final Chapter.

[Kane Lives]

I've always liked JGTH and felt it was underrated. Jason's lack of screen time and the idea of Jason possessing other people's bodies didn't really bother me, as much as the HellBaby itself did.

Jason drown as a boy (maybe), came back as a man and was killed, was resurrected as a Zombie, and now suddenly is really a small Demon inside the Zombie's body. When I look at it that way, it really doesn't make that much sense to me.


But, I still like the movie. It's well paced and fun. It had a ton of gore in the Unrated cut. And it has my favorite opening I think of all the Friday films. Because after Jason being so indestructible for three previous films, what happens to him here in the first few minutes is the last thing you would expect to see. So, that's always been very memorable to me.

I liked the addition of the adult characters, and of course you've got to love The Duke. Creighton Duke is one of the best characters in the series IMO. lol


And I don't know how they could have ended the film better than having Freddy's glove come up and grab Jason's mask. It's not your traditional F13th film, but still IMO a fun film.

[Deathscythe]

Hell yeah, the Freddy cameo was awesome.

[Scarecrow]

I always found it odd that despite the body hopping we still see quite a lot of Jason compared with the early films. I wonder, would people be so annoyed, if we'd never seen MUCH of the possessed people, just the ills being done by an off-camera killer, in the way the first 4 to 5 films did it.


- Scarecrow

[DRE]

That's actually a good question Scarecrow. I would say no, they wouldn't be as annoyed.

[Deathscythe]

I always found it odd that despite the body hopping we still see quite a lot of Jason compared with the early films. I wonder, would people be so annoyed, if we'd never seen MUCH of the possessed people, just the ills being done by an off-camera killer, in the way the first 4 to 5 films did it.


- Scarecrow

Nah, I liked it the way it is.

[Scarecrow]

Nah, I liked it the way it is.

As do I, I have no problem with the body swapping. Mainly for the reason above. I see it as little different to the kills in part 1 -5 whe we don't see Jason. Only in this case we're seeing tghe body he inhabits. It's all the same person doing the killing.


- Scarecrow

[Ron]

This film does deserve an "A" for effort. The beggining was a total misleading WTF? moment as far as the whole FBI thing goes.

[Darth Sinister]

The only time the mystery format appears in JGTH is when we don't know who Jason hopped into, towards the end of the film. Whether it was the Sheriff or Randy and they threw us for a loop by having Randy talk, whereas everyone else didn't.

[Ron]

I think that making Randy talk was a real sloppy 'easy-way-out' tactic, the type that hurts a film. I hate inconsistencies like that.

[DRE]

I always believed that Jason was able to use whatever those he possessed knew how to do, like drive or use a gun or talk (Although who's to say that Jason can't talk himself?)

[Ron]

True, but the most I've ever herad out of him was some unitelligible grunting. I don't think we'll be hearing him quote Shakespeare any time soon.

[DRE]

Well, there's always "Help mommy, help!"

[The Tall Man]

Peter, originally, Jason was supposed to deliver the voice-over during the opening titles of Friday 8. No, really.

and now suddenly is really a small Demon inside the Zombie's body.
Jason's doesn't have a demon inside him. The hellbaby is nothing more than a vessel to move Jason's soul from body to body. Jason didn't have that thing within him prior to JGTH and unless his body is destroyed again, it won't be back.

And I don't know how they could have ended the film better than having Freddy's glove come up and grab Jason's mask. It's not your traditional F13th film, but still IMO a fun film.
Fans love this, but as much as I love Freddy, I think he ruined the ending. JGTH would have had a beautiful ending if it had just been the soft Manfredini music playing, the dust uncovers the hockey mask, the camera slowly zooms in on it from above, one final "chh chh chh..." and fade to black.

Freddy just provides a cheap tacked-on scare that ruins what could have been.

T.M.

[Ron]

It was a cheap-tacked on ending that had fans begging for a vs movie that made a lot of people rich.

[Autobotsdie]

But without Freddy doing that we wouldn't have Freddy vs. Jason. Plus the opening to FvJ wouldn't make sense in what Freddy said when he said he found someone to help him scare people again.

[The Dream Master]

Auto, there was going to be a Freddy vs. Jason regardless of whether or not Freddy's glove appeared in JGTH. It had been discussed seven to eight years before the release of JGTH.

While Shannon and Swift claim they used the ending of JGTH as a springboard for their script, I still think their FvJ would have made plenty of sense without the ending to JGTH.

Oh, and for the record, I actually like the Freddy ending myself. Then again, I was like ten when I first saw JGTH and it was the coolest thing ever.

[Ron]

I think the JGTH commentary was really good.

[Rich]

I would have liked the Freddy ending if they used Robert at least for the laugh. I think that was Kane's laugh. I wasn't crazy about that.

[Ron]

I would have liked the Freddy ending if they used Robert at least for the laugh. I think that was Kane's laugh. I wasn't crazy about that.

Kane's laugh? Really? I'm gonna have to give that a listen. If that's true, I agree with you. I hate when shit like that is done i.e. the voice over for Donald Pleasance in H2O.

[Autobotsdie]

If memory serves I thought it sounded alot like Englands laugh.

[Kane Lives]

Jason's doesn't have a demon inside him. The hellbaby is nothing more than a vessel to move Jason's soul from body to body. Jason didn't have that thing within him prior to JGTH and unless his body is destroyed again, it won't be back.


Demon or not, it's some kind of creature. I know it was created only for JGTH, and for JGTH it works. But, when looking back over the course of the previous eight movies the question as to why or how Jason has this creature inside him stood out to me, as I said, more than anything else in the film.



I would have liked the Freddy ending if they used Robert at least for the laugh.


Yeah, that was the only thing about the Freddy ending that I didn't like. I don't know who's laugh it was, but I can always remember thinking the laugh never really sounded like Robert to me.

[The Tall Man]

The laugh is NOT Robert. And it makes no sense that they couldn't get a stock laugh track from New Line.

It'd make sense that that is Kane's laugh since he's the one playing Freddy's arm.

T.M.

[Autobotsdie]

The reason they probably couldn't get a stock laugh is because they would have had to either pay for it or pay royalties to England for the use of it.

[Scarecrow]

I always felt the Hellbaby was a part of Jason from his 'rebirth' in Part 6. I do feel it's more of a symbiote, growing in hims and increasing his powers throughout 6-10. When Jason's destroyed it carries his soul as a way of also restoring itself.

I also believe JGTH and the magic dagger was the way to destroy the Hellbaby or the 'demonic' element of Jason but Jason himself was still able to be restored for FvJ.


- Scarecrow

[SmiTheReeNs*]

JGTH was different and ok to watch but the hellbaby plot and Jasons look and stalking pursuit was poorly excecuted IMO..when he was chasin agent elizabeth thru the woods..Jason was grunting breathing extremely heavy, more then usual and he was pushing away the branches like he didnt have any patience..also when the fbi squad was shootin numerous bullets Jason was squealing im like wtf??

[jackdeth]

JGTH was different and ok to watch but the hellbaby plot and Jasons look and stalking pursuit was poorly excecuted IMO..when he was chasin agent elizabeth thru the woods..Jason was grunting breathing extremely heavy, more then usual and he was pushing away the branches like he didnt have any patience..also when the fbi squad was shootin numerous bullets Jason was squealing im like wtf??
I found JGTH to be different when I first seen the movie back when it first came out but, over the last decade it's grown on me big time. I just sit back and fun watching it.
I do agree strange for a F13 film but, I'm really liking it now.:D

[Ron]

I hate hearing the term 'hell baby'. It just sounds so ridiculous to me. Jason didn't even look like Jason in this film. He had long strands of silver hair and a grayish hockey mask that was buried in his face along with a blue Myers jumpsuit.

[Rich]

He didn't have a blue Michael jumpsuit. Watch the film closely, you can see a shirt tucked into pants with a belt on.

[Deathscythe]

Didn't the killer from A New Beginning wear Michael Myers clothes?

[Rich]

I believe Roy did in fact dress like Michael Myers. I'll have to check it out and verify that though.

[Ron]

He didn't have a blue Michael jumpsuit. Watch the film closely, you can see a shirt tucked into pants with a belt on.

My mistake. It's quite refreshing to know that Jason cares about his appearance enough to tuck his shirt in.

[sCabbOy]

Yes, it was tucked with a belt.Jason was a snappy dresser. Always tucked in his shirt and wore a belt.

[The Tall Man]

He had long strands of silver hair and a grayish hockey mask that was buried in his face along with a blue Myers jumpsuit.
"Silver Hair"? Jason had redish strands of hair in JGTH.

He didn't have a blue Michael jumpsuit. Watch the film closely, you can see a shirt tucked into pants with a belt on.
Exactly. In fact in JGTH, Jason wears a federal guard's uniform (the shirt and slacks).

Roy IS wearing a Myers-style jumpsuit.

T.M.

[DRE]

"Silver Hair"? Jason had redish strands of hair in JGTH.

Exactly. KNB was sure to keep continuity with the Part 2 hair, since the head was inspired by his appearance in that film.


Exactly. In fact in JGTH, Jason wears a federal guard's uniform (the shirt and slacks).


Meaning there's a nice "escape and return" story set between JTM and JGTH.

[Darth Sinister]

KNB was combining Savini, Fullerton and Buchler's (sp) designs.

[Ron]

Exactly. KNB was sure to keep continuity with the Part 2 hair, since the head was inspired by his appearance in that film.



Meaning there's a nice "escape and return" story set between JTM and JGTH.

Well whatever color the hair was it was in long strands and I really don't see how that constitues as "continuity" considering the fact that Jason hasn't had hair for the 7 films between.

[DRE]

Come on Pete, Jason had hair in Final Chapter and Jason Lives. Besides, we don't know what transpired between those two films to allow for his hair to regrow. And then there is the Regeneration factor to account for as well.

[Rich]

I didn't see any hair on Jason in Jason Lives, but I did see hair on him in The Final Chapter as well as an 80s heavy metal mop in Friday the 13th Part 2.

[Ron]

Yeah, there's a couple stands in TFC, but there's absolutley none on that rotted skull in JL.

[Deathscythe]

Kid Jason had hair in Jason Takes Manhattan, that was just a hallucination through.

[Ron]

Kid Jason was bald at the end of the first Friday and in Freddy vs Jason, but those are dreams :meh:

[Rich]

Kid Jason had hair in Jason Takes Manhattan, that was just a hallucination through.

No that was just bad film making and the film makers not giving a shit about detail and what came before their movie.

That kind of thing makes me think that Rob did not even watch the other films, he was simply told a summary of the story and "wrote a movie" based on what was told. The kid Jason havin hair and not being disfigured in JTM is my most hated thing in the entire series. It brings new meaning to the words "F*ck Up!"

[DRE]

Look again my friends, in the scene where Jason is attacking Tommy in the boat, you will see two separate tuffs of hair on the back of Jason's head just below the mask straps.

"Look closer, Detective Matthews!"

[Deathscythe]

No that was just bad film making and the film makers not giving a shit about detail and what came before their movie.

That kind of thing makes me think that Rob did not even watch the other films, he was simply told a summary of the story and "wrote a movie" based on what was told. The kid Jason havin hair and not being disfigured in JTM is my most hated thing in the entire series. It brings new meaning to the words "F*ck Up!"

I can agree with Jason Takes Manhattan sucking, my least favorite in the series.

[Ron]

I consider JTM as more of a comedy.

[Rich]

I consider JTM as more of a comedy.

:lmao: I guess that is one way of looking at it. I do not dislike the movie. I think some are getting the wrong impression. It is just that this movie has more in it then any other entry that I dislike about it.

It is a fun little "shit and giggle" Jason movie.

[The Tall Man]

Dre's exactly right. You guys gotta look closer in JL. In addition to the Jason vs. Tommy at the lake scene, you can see Jason's hair as he's creeping through the girl's cabin.

T.M.

[Spade]

I think this movie is way underestimated. I agree that the body hopping was not the best way to go, but after seeing JTM, this movie seemed like an Oscar winner.

I agree with Melanie. This movie is very underestimated. The body hoping was a bad idea, but the rest of the movie is pretty good. It's got some decent characters and alright character development. And it was a big step up from the crap that was part 8.

Take care and God bless.

Spade

[SmiTheReeNs*]

No that was just bad film making and the film makers not giving a shit about detail and what came before their movie.

That kind of thing makes me think that Rob did not even watch the other films, he was simply told a summary of the story and "wrote a movie" based on what was told. The kid Jason havin hair and not being disfigured in JTM is my most hated thing in the entire series. It brings new meaning to the words "F*ck Up!"

That bothered me big time..in later Rennie hallucinations kid Jason went back to having no hair..that just told me that Rob was really confused

[Ron]

I look at that as pure sloppyness.

[sCabbOy]

I'm not sure if the Jason was Rob's fault. Blame it on the SFX crew- perhaps they ran low on budget?

[Ron]

That's also a possiblity.

[SmiTheReeNs*]

I'm not sure if the Jason was Rob's fault. Blame it on the SFX crew- perhaps they ran low on budget?

Dunno who to blame but it made JTM a installment we should of never had IMO

[Rich]

I don't know if it is the installment we should have never had. I just wish it were made a little better. I wish it took place more in New York. That would have been cool.

[Ron]

Yeah I agree. It should have took place in New York a lot more. Instead we got "Jason Takes a Cruise".

[Darth Sinister]

Are we sure that the tufts of hair in JL are part of the makeup or that the makeup starting to come apart and Graham's hair was sticking out?

As to the Jason fuck ups in JTM, I think that Rob Hedden was trying to say that while Jason was in the lake, he started to become malformed and evil. Though if he looked at the pics of Ari Leman (sp), he'd see otherwise. I think he did watch the early films, but I don't think he did in-depth research. You know, look at still photos or really paid attention to what Ginny said.

[The Tall Man]

Are we sure that the tufts of hair in JL are part of the makeup or that the makeup starting to come apart and Graham's hair was sticking out?
We're positive. They don't make makeup prosthetics that cheaply... at least not for any of the Fridays.

T.M.

[Ron]

And yes, we all worked on the set of the film..:side:

[The Tall Man]

That seems uncalled for.

[Ron]

Sorry TM, I'm just a little skeptical about the whole JL hair thing, but who cares, it's no big deal:)

[The Dream Master]

I took a look at CLM last night, and there's a huge picture on the opposite the first page dealing with Jason Lives. You can see the slightest bit of hair on Jason's head. At least that's what I think it is.

[The Tall Man]

Sorry TM, I'm just a little skeptical about the whole JL hair thing, but who cares, it's no big deal:)
I was skeptical too when it was pointed out to me by Gavin (the 13th Member) years ago... that was until I checked it out and saw it for myself.

T.M.

[El Rooto]

What would happen if you just picked up the Hellbaby and beat the fucking shit out of it and burnt it and stuff? Would there be a Hellbabybaby?

[The Dream Master]

Probably. I'm guessing it's something that regnerates and respawns, as Jason's soul is eternal. Therefore, I would guess his soul would continously spawn itself a new, physical host.

[Utellme]

I read somewhere in this forum can't find it now,That Jason was not originally suppose to be in JGTH if he wasn't how would people be possessed ? and how would body jumping occur ? And if not possessed by Jason then who ?

[The Tall Man]

They were possessed by Jason's evil twin brother Elias. He was the killer in the "Friday the 13th: Heart of Darkness" movie Cunningham tried to make. When New Line interceded, they changed Elias to Jason and made Elias Jason's dad. Originally, Jason was not in the movie and then he was juiced in when Cunningham screwed the pooch.

T.M.

[Spade]

They were possessed by Jason's evil twin brother Elias. He was the killer in the "Friday the 13th: Heart of Darkness" movie Cunningham tried to make. When New Line interceded, they changed Elias to Jason and made Elias Jason's dad. Originally, Jason was not in the movie and then he was juiced in when Cunningham screwed the pooch.

T.M.

You have no idea how happy I am that the decided to stay away from that idea.

Take care and God bless.

Spade

[Autobotsdie]

Why did they change the name from Heart of Darkness to Jason goes to hell?

[DRE]

Because they decided to have the film be the Final Final one. New Line was very dumb to acquire the series only to try and end it with their first one. What they should have done was keep with the 13 sequels until FvsJ was ready.

[Rich]

This was intended to be the final Friday stand alone movie and lead into Freddy vs. Jason. FVJ is the only reason they wanted the series/character. Make no mistake about that. The only reason they are giving it any attention now is because of the slew of new horror remakes makes Friday look like money just waiting to be made.

[The Tall Man]

Because they decided to have the film be the Final Final one. New Line was very dumb to acquire the series only to try and end it with their first one. What they should have done was keep with the 13 sequels until FvsJ was ready.
Dre, that was not New Line's doing. When Jason was put in, Cunningham called it "The Final Friday" so as New Line could do the Freddy vs. Jason if they wanted and Cunningham could make "Friday the 13th" films non-related to Jason. Since "Jason the icon" is not a creation of Cunningham, he hates and resents him ("Get that damned hockey mask out of the movie!") and thinks "Friday the 13th" is about Crystal Lake rather than Jason (Wow! That sounds familiar!). So he wanted to do those kinds of movies (and even announced a TV series in this vein when he couldn't get non-Jason Fridays off the ground that similarly hasn't gotten off the ground). But when he's un public, Cunningham will smile about Jason and take Hockey Puck's money ALL the way to the bank.

You'll hear Cunningham OFTEN try to take the credit for the FvsJ idea, when in actuality, Paramount and New Line had already tried it in 1988 and David Chaskin first put forth the idea in 1985. He lies like a rug so be wary of things he says.

T.M.

[Spade]

Cunningham is an idiot.

[Deathscythe]

If what The Tall Man said is true, than Cunningham is a lameass.

[The Dream Master]

It's true. He even pulled similar stuff with Jason X.

[Deathscythe]

So Cunningham tried to make Jason Goes to Hell about Jason brother before New Line interfered, how was Jason X intended to be than?

[The Dream Master]

I don't know the complete details, but Todd Farmer's script was a lot different than what we ended up getting. Tall Man will be more specific, but I know Cunningham had a lot to do with what ended up on the screen; however, as I understand it, NLC again stepped in and reigned him in so things didn't get completely out of hand.

With FvJ, NLC was smart enough to throw a bunch of money at Cunningham to stay far away from the project.

[Kane Lives]

I'm very glad that New Line stepped in and stopped Sean from making a film with Jason's Brother.

One of the fun things about JGTH for me, was that it tried to add a little to the Friday mythology (good or bad). IMO, had Jason not been a part of the film at all, it would have been much worse and would have contained nothing worth noting.

[The Dream Master]

See, Kane Lives knows the score. That's why TM and I are always going around saying people shouldn't be pissed at New Line for how their films have turned out. If anything, they should be praised for salvaging those productions.

[sCabbOy]

You're right they were negative pickups... but NLC still thought they were good enough to put their name on and release.

[DRE]

Well, to be fair, Mike DeLuca let those films through and he was not a fan of Friday the 13th at all. Bob Shaye even said that Freddy vs. Jason took so long because his head of production (DeLuca) didn't really care about the property.

[Rich]

You're right they were negative pickups... but NLC still thought they were good enough to put their name on and release.

I think they put their name on them to try to make money off of a popular character. That doesn't mean they thought the movies were good.

[The Dream Master]

What Rich said.

New Line was more than likely banking on the fact that Jason was still somewhat profitable, which is why they made sure he was in the movie in the first place.

[The Tall Man]

You know, I need to reread Todd's JX script, but he said (to me and on the commentary) that like 25% of what he wrote is onscreen. That's how much Cunningham changed along the way.

T.M.

[Scarecrow]

I ADORE the original concept for UberJason. I think it could have looked REALLY industrial..almost something like Clive Barker's Tortured Souls with chains, metal piping, steam, dripping oil...


- Scarecrow

[sCabbOy]

I think they put their name on them to try to make money off of a popular character. That doesn't mean they thought the movies were good.

Well, if they thought the movies were absolute trash I'm sure they would have been hesitant to do so. I am sure at the time Jason X finished it's theaer run they regretted it. Although it's done much better on DVD.

[The Dream Master]

I don't think NLC regretted much at all. As we've said, it was a negative pick-up meaning NLC only covered the cost of advertising (which I'm guessing wasn't a whole hell of a lot) and striking up prints. I'm guessing NLC saw a pretty decent return on its investment while it was in theaters, and it's made them even more in the rental market. It really was a low-risk situation for them. It wasn't exactly a high reward, but it made them a bit of cash.

[Rich]

You know how Adam Marcus always said that this was a direct sequel to Part 2 and the rest of them did not happen? Well I now have three reasons who that is not true. Maybe when he first thought up the story that is what he meant it to be, but the finnished film is definitely Part 9 whether he likes it or not, and here is why:

1) The mask is melted to the melting head as a result of the toxic waste from Part 8. That has already been discussed hundreds of times.

2) Just him having the hockey mask mean at least Part 3 happened. Duh.

Now, here is the big one. Here is the one to close the debate once and for all.

3) Robert Campbell on American Casefile said, "Jason Voorhees was believed to have drowned in 1957 at the tender age of 11. Sadly he did not. Since then he has been responsible for 83 confirmed murders and speculated scores of others."

Now, think about that. 83 murders. He did not kill 83 people in Friday the 13th Part 2, so they took the body count of the entire series as canon, which means the entire series up to that point did in fact happen and it really is Part 9 in the time line and not Part 3 (which is what Adam Marcus would have you believe).

[The Tall Man]

Rich,

4.) In the television version, Duke makes references to Jason's pasts deaths including his Part 8 defeat "Dipped him in nuclear waste. Did every damned thing they could to him." :)

T.M.

[The Dream Master]

I've never heard Adam Marcus claim that before. If he did, he obviously wasn't paying attention to his own film.

[Kane Lives]

I know Marcus' initial treatment ignored JTM, with Elias pulling Jason up from the lake after his "death" in TNB, but JGTH ignoring everything past Part 2 is news to me. lol

I do remember Dean Lorey saying something confusing in Fangoria about JGTH featuring the real Jason and the previous Fridays were simply films. Obviously that isn't true. I never got what he was trying to say with that.


On a side note, I saw the art for the JGTH movie adaption the other day, and some of it was pretty sloppy. Although I did like how they had several more scenes of Jason's image being reflected in various things throughout the comics.

[Dead Cell]

I had always heard that the script for Jason X was getting rewritten on a daily basis. With all that going on, I always felt kinda' bad for the actors. I'm sure it's a common occurence on any movie set, but it sounded like it was even worse than usual on this one.

[Kane Lives]

Yeah, I seem to remember Jim Isaac saying on the commentary that they were "breaking down the script every single day".

I'm sure that caused some restless nights for a lot of people on that film. lol

[Dead Cell]

Seriously. Who could possibly learn their lines? I wouldn't be surprised if they were given new lines right before shooting a scene every day.

[sCabbOy]

Sometimes when movies are shot, and lines are changed they will rehearse their lines right before shooting and sometimes they are fed lines while shooting. So it wouldn't surprise me.

[Darth Sinister]

I know Marcus' initial treatment ignored JTM, with Elias pulling Jason up from the lake after his "death" in TNB, but JGTH ignoring everything past Part 2 is news to me. lol

I do remember Dean Lorey saying something confusing in Fangoria about JGTH featuring the real Jason and the previous Fridays were simply films. Obviously that isn't true. I never got what he was trying to say with that.

I think he was trying to justify all the changes in JGTH from the Paramount series. Namely the Hellbaby, the fact that the police never really believed or did anything about Jason and Jason's different appearence. Without knowing it, he was trying to emulate what Wes Craven did more successfully with "New Nightmare".

[The Tall Man]

Without knowing it, he was trying to emulate what Wes Craven did more successfully with "New Nightmare".
How did Dean emulate something that hadn't happened yet. ;)

T.M.

[Darth Sinister]

Ha, ha. You know what I mean. I could understand his point, but it never comes across in the film.

[Autobotsdie]

Anybody notice that when Jessica is giving directios to find Steven on the side of the road she said to go past the Myers place.

[The Dream Master]

Yep, and no doubt it was an intentional homage, just as "Cunningham County" is a homage to Sean Cunningham.

[Kane Lives]

Yep, and no doubt it was an intentional homage, just as "Cunningham County" is a homage to Sean Cunningham.


I think the most odd of these homages was the woman in the Police Station, who according to Adam Marcus, was reprising her role from Die Hard. lol


That movie had a ton of references to other films. I'd say close to ten.

[Autobotsdie]

What gets me is all the grunting Jason did when he was being shot then screaming when he got bombed.

[Nancy Thompson]

Rich,

4.) In the television version, Duke makes references to Jason's pasts deaths including his Part 8 defeat "Dipped him in nuclear waste. Did every damned thing they could to him." :)

T.M.

Tall Man i have seen the television version before but i do not remember hearing Duke say this. was this when he was talking to Steve in Jail or when he was talking to Jessica about Jason?

[The Tall Man]

Nancy, it's during his interview with Robert Campbell (er, was that his name?).

T.M.

[El Rooto]

What gets me is all the grunting Jason did when he was being shot then screaming when he got bombed.

I thought that was fucking ridiculous. "Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! AAUUUUUUUUGH!"
I may have misquoted him a bit...

[DRE]

Well, what was he supposed to do? Stand there and laugh? It's not the first time he grunted, and I think when he grunts it makes him a bit more animalistic and raw.

[El Rooto]

Yeah, we've heard Jason grunt on occasion...but that scream was fucking ridiculous.

I think this is an awful movie, in any case.

[DRE]

Very good film, IMO. Could have been better but certainly not the worst, I give that distinction to Freddy vs. Jason.

[El Rooto]

At least FvsJ didn't introduce something completely fucking stupid into Jason's mythos like the Hellbaby. Jason having a deep-seated fear of water somewhere in his mind is one thing, him being a body-hopper is another.

[DRE]

Actually, I would say both aspects are equally stupid as it's something that totally came out of left field and doesn't fall in line with established myth in previous films. At least in the Hellbaby's case you can say "Well, he was never blown up so we can't really say what would happen" but the whole scared of water bullshit doesn't fly because we've seen the man battle in the water many many times, and that whole deep seated fear thing is bullshit also because Jason ain't scared of shit.

Jason, in his best Rick James impersonation, would say "Fuck this water!" and slap Freddy's head off. Well, a non sissy-fied Jason would do that, not the FvsJ version.

[El Rooto]

He didn't seem to have a problem with water in the finale of FvsJ.

[DRE]

I understand that they needed to give Jason a fear in order for Freddy to have a 1up mushroom, but damn, come up with something a little more inventive than that shit. If they had studied their Jason history more throughly they would have known that young Jason loved the water, that's why he drowned in the first place because he couldn't wait to get in (I'll take the novel version over FvsJ's lame "The kids drowned me!" explanation any day.)

They were getting into that Captain Planet elemental thing with the fears, and if it had been Freddy vs. Jason vs. Michael you can bet they would have somehow found a way for Myers to be scared of the wind.

[El Rooto]

I'd actually have to agree there.

[Deathscythe]

I like Jason Goes to Hell as well, I do think that there shouldn't have been blue lights shooting out of Jason at the end of the film through.

[DRE]

Well, the blue and red lights were there to signify that Jason was finally getting arrested for his years of murder and secret cocaine sells. ;)

[Deathscythe]

Yeah and than he released by Freddy Krueger while no longer looking he was hit by acid.

[Kane Lives]

I could have accepted Jason's fear in FVJ had it been executed without the lame water pipe. Freddy turning him back into a child, to me made sense.

I've always felt by drowning big Jason in his dream in his childhood form (and essentially making him think he's a kid drowning all over again); Freddy could probably make Jason afraid or at least make him remember the fear he had on that day and acknowledge it, so Freddy could tap into it and effect his physical body in the real world.


In the dream world Freddy can do anything he wants at anytime, so having Jason reverting back into a child seemingly by accident just made no sense. I just can't subscribe to this subconcious fear of water theory, so having Jason quake in fear at the site of a shower was IMO... well, I think DRE came up with a good word for it earlier. :p

[Darth Sinister]

He didn't seem to have a problem with water in the finale of FvsJ.

And that's because he is awake, not asleep.

[El Rooto]

And that's because he is awake, not asleep.

Exactly...

[The Dream Master]

(I'll take the novel version over FvsJ's lame "The kids drowned me!" explanation any day.)



I don't think that's what the movie was saying. I think what we saw there was the jumbled mess of Jason's sub-conscious memories, and he's kind of conflated the kids' abuse with his drowning. I took it as more of a symbolic thing, really.

[Darth Sinister]

See, here's the thing with novelizations.

1. The films will always supersede the novelizations. That's how it is.

2. The novelizations from the Paramount series are out of print and hard to find. Not everyone has a copy or even read them. Thus whatever Hawke wrote, because he had no idea of the full backstory and he was just making it up as he went, is rendered invalid. And even if not, just because he enjoyed the water doesn't mean that he wouldn't develop a fear from when he drowned. Drowing is a scary prospect and one that can induce fear, if the trauma is significant enough. So the way I look at it is that if he wasn't scared before, he was as a result of the drowning. The fear stems from the fact that it was scary and the only time he has felt such fear. So when he is in the boiler room, in the dream world, he's fine at first until the water is unleashed. At this point, his fear breaks to the surface. Look at Jason. He's puzzled as to why he's unable to attack and why he is paralyzed with fear. In the real world, he's not bothered by the water and thus he can go underwater with no problems. Though, it is interesting that twice Jason is stopped by being submerged in the lake. I think the idea Shannon and Swift had came from that as well as the drowning.

[DRE]

That makes sense, but I still believe they could have picked a better fear.

Shannon & Swift were on to something when they had Pamela ridicule Jason, and that right there would have been the more interesting dynamic. The one true thing we know from the films is that Jason loved his mother enough to kill in her honor and feared her enough to not return to her after his near drowning (or resurrection, whichever you prefer), Freddy using his mother's image to break him back down into a scared little child and invalidate all that he has accomplished FOR her is a far more realistic fear for Jason to have than a residual fear of water.

The fear of failure in the eyes of your parents is a powerful one, especially when that parent is the whole world to you. It also would have given us a bit more Mrs. Voorhees in the process. But like I said before, they were going for the elemental thing and wanted to give us award winning lines like, "Freddy died by fire, Jason by water, how can we use that?"

[The Dream Master]

You've got a great point there, DRE. Having Jason being afraid of failing his mom would have been very interesting. Don't get me wrong, I think the water thing still works as a subconscious fear, but altering the dynamic between Pamela and Jason would have added a whole new dimension to the character.

[Shoesalesman]

I like Jason Goes to Hell as well, I do think that there shouldn't have been blue lights shooting out of Jason at the end of the film through.

Me too, I like the film. The blue lights were okay by me.

[The Tall Man]

^^It's spiritual energy.

T.M.

[Darth Sinister]

But like I said before, they were going for the elemental thing and wanted to give us award winning lines like, "Freddy died by fire, Jason by water, how can we use that?"

Yeah, that line felt out of place.