Hannibal Lector vs. The Joker

[Geddy Peart]

Who wins?

I say the Joker simply because there is no pattern or method to what he does.

[Deathscythe]

I say Lector would just eat the Joker and it'd be over with.

[ZPowers]

The Joker is easily more deadly. Joker.

[Chucky's back]

Even if Lecter should manage to defeat Joker, Joker would still have the last laugh as Hannibal would probably die of poisoning after having devoured the flesh of a man who's fallen in a vat of toxic waste.

[Dave Dunwoody]

The Joker's genius is understated, but this is a tough call. I think Lecter could identify a method to Joker's madness (or at least dissect the Clown Prince's plot du jour) and get the drop on him. Especially if we're talking the literary Lecter, he's a badass.

[Darth Sinister]

I'd give it to the Joker. There is no method to the Joker's madness other than the sheer randomness of things and that he gets a kick out of everything he does. Plus, he can be unpredictable.

[Jigsaw]

I'd say The Joker because he's so unpredictable.

[Spade]

I'd have to go with The Joker. For many of the same reasons posted already.

[DRE]

Hannibal clearly takes this one, he is beyond insanity and genius. If we're talking about a straight up cat and mouse, chess game, battle of wits then the game belongs to Dr. Hannibal Lecter.

[Uncle Hugo]

The Joker kills all.

[Geddy Peart]

Hannibal clearly takes this one, he is beyond insanity and genius. If we're talking about a straight up cat and mouse, chess game, battle of wits then the game belongs to Dr. Hannibal Lecter.


I disagree, Hannibal has several reasons why he is the way he is. He's a cannibal and sociopath because nazi soldiers killed his family and ate his younger sister (whom he loved dearly) during a harsh blizzard that forced them to take shelter at Hannibal's childhood home.

Hannibal also kills those he feels are offensive to society whether his reasons for killing are valid or not.

Third, Hannibal has a huge weakness in terms of his affection for one Clarice Starling.

Mr. J's an intelligent criminal mind himself and would use all of the above to lure the doctor into a trap. I think the Joker's fulyy capable of screwing with Lector's mind just because he's crazy enough.

On the flip side, Hannibal will have no leverage on Joker. As stated before Joker does whatever he finds amusing, whether others gget the joke or not. There's no rhythm to his madness unlike Lector.

Also unlike Lector, there's never been a true origin for Joker (TKJ has never been verified as Joker's official origin I don't think). HJe's simply a force of natural that came out of nowhere to cause chaos and distruction.

[DRE]

I disagree, Hannibal has several reasons why he is the way he is. He's a cannibal and sociopath because nazi soldiers killed his family and ate his younger sister (whom he loved dearly) during a harsh blizzard that forced them to take shelter at Hannibal's childhood home.

Hannibal also kills those he feels are offensive to society whether his reasons for killing are valid or not.

Third, Hannibal has a huge weakness in terms of his affection for one Clarice Starling.

Mr. J's an intelligent criminal mind himself and would use all of the above to lure the doctor into a trap. I think the Joker's fulyy capable of screwing with Lector's mind just because he's crazy enough.

On the flip side, Hannibal will have no leverage on Joker. As stated before Joker does whatever he finds amusing, whether others gget the joke or not. There's no rhythm to his madness unlike Lector.

Also unlike Lector, there's never been a true origin for Joker (TKJ has never been verified as Joker's official origin I don't think). HJe's simply a force of natural that came out of nowhere to cause chaos and distruction.

Nah, Hannibal is too smart to be lured in by Joker, he would see it a mile away. Lecter would use Joker's own ego to defeat him. Just because there is no method to Joker's madness doesn't mean Lecter couldn't take what he knows and turn the joke around on Joker. Focused madness will always win over the chaotic, any old day of the week.

[Uncle Hugo]

Despite intelligence factors, both of them are fairly arrogant (Joker flaunt himself in his crimes, Lecter is symbolic in his crimes, and despite that they both remain in open public), they're both virtually fearless, and can both be vicious killers.

I think it's all down to methods, Hannibal tends to deal with his victims personally, usually getting to know them first before killing them. Joker kills in his usual unpredicable way, which ranges from serial murder to mass murder to poisonings to nuking whole cities.

The Joker could just gas the city Lecter resides in and then Hannibal would just be one amongst the masses, instead of a death of signifigance, the joke would be on him.

I still think The Joker would get the better of Lecter.

[Jigsaw]

Good observation, Hugo.

I think The Joker would be the victor because he's a lot more destructive and malicious than Hannibal, and lot of his crimes and attacks are random, as opposed to Hannibal's more personal motives.

[Uncle Hugo]

Dr. Lecter is more familiar to dealing with more text book psychology personalities, whearas The Joker's is beyond text book, like if he had no personality at all, nothing is consistant with him.

[Jigsaw]

The Joker would be difficult for Hannibal to profile, given that there's so man conflicting sources for his background.

[ZPowers]

I don't think it's fair to say that Lecter would be able to somehow dissect Joker's methods and madness when Batman has failed to do so, and is indeed pretty much a genius. Additionally, Joker ha gotten the drop on such characters as Riddler and Lex Luthor pretty easily, Riddler being easily more intelligent than Batman (if not for his crippling neuroses and compulsions like the need to leave clues behind, Riddler would easily succeed in all of his plans) and Luthor is probably as smart or smarter than Batman is.

I also agree that Joker would be alright with killing Lecter uncermoniously. Something deeply impersonal would probably do for the Joker in this case, because not only is Lecter not his revered and worthy equal Batman (Joker has pretty clearly shown he considers all other human beings besides himself and Batman as totally irrelevent), but he also has no strong connection to Batman like a Robin or a Commissioner Gordon. Of course, if Lecter gets the drop on Mr. J, his goose is cooked (and if Joker sneaks up on Lecter, something he isn't bad at doing himself considered the thousands of murders and kidnapings he's committed). If they see each other coming, Joker takes it. I'm betting he has WAAAAY more experience with on-the-spot self-defense, on the spot fighting, gunplay, actually HAVING a gun pretty much all the time, fisticuffs, not being as old as Lecter, etc.

So considering it's pretty equally likely that either will sneak up on the other and take it, but since the Joker isn't entirely unlikely just gas the few city blocks were he knows or thinks Lecter is without actually ever coming within 50 feet of the guy or would probably win if they met in the street and had a straight up fight, I still give it over to the Joker.

Oh, and as for Lecter being beyond insanity and genius, Joker could be considered beyond sanity as well. In Grant Morrisson's Arkham Asylum, for instance, there's a long question of in the Joker is in fact "Super-Sane", or literally rebuilds his sanity and personality from time to time to best suit himself and his means or goals (maybe explaining his crimes jumping often from serious homicidal sprees to over-extended practical jokes). Joker is also apparently beyond fear and is the only person that the Scarecrow's fear gas doesn't affect in the slightest. Some comics even feature Joker as possibley aware of being in a ficticious comic universe (including in certain Marvel crossovers), a feature which is something unique to him among any other comic character I know of.

[DRE]

ZPowers, you make interesting points, and in a comic book universe I believe Joker would win hands down (Though we have no idea what a comic book Lecter would be like, possibly something rivaling Braniac.)

But in this case, since Lecter is a real world character, he will have to be pitted against a real world Joker (Namely Heath Ledger's Joker.) We don't know too much about the structure of that Joker but if he is anything like the comics version of Joker, the yes he will have the upper hand. But, regardless, I believe in a wits vs. wits battle, Lecter still takes the win.

And duh, of course gassing the city is an easy win, as is the physical match between them.

[ZPowers]

(Though we have no idea what a comic book Lecter would be like, possibly something rivaling Braniac.) I would definitly not go that far. He might have the one of the highest intellects among humans (which, again, places him around Batman, Luthor, Riddler), but Brianiac is definitly intelligent beyond human capabilities (many times over. He's apparently capable of forms of telepathy, telekinesis, even sometimes limited time/space manipulation) and powerful beyond human capabilities (probably on account of being an cyborg or whatever, but there's just no way a comic book Luther could hold his own fighting Superman).

[nottidelterrore]

I think it'd be a good & cunning fight overall but I'd say The Joker gets the last laugh & wins the battle.

[Voo-doo]

the Joker is 10x crazier than Lector.

[Darth Sinister]

Even if Lector gets ahold of the Joker, that doesn't automatically earn him a victory. The Joker is well armed with knives, acid flowers and Joker venom. Not to mention lethal joy buzzers and hand guns of all calibers. Even having one or more teeth replaced with a breakable tooth that will unleash his Joker venom, it'd be to his advantage.

[Voo-doo]

any man who is willing to kill himself just to make his enemy look bad is crazier that a man who eats people.

[Uncle Hugo]

I have to agree that Joker is more insane than Dr. Lecter, I mean he did sell his soul for a box of cuban cigars.

[Spade]

There have been some really good points made so far. I'm glad I voted for The Joker.

[DRE]

Just a lot of Joker fans, that's all.

The Joker is not impervious to all. It's an odd combination to begin with, Joker and Hannibal could never exist in the same universe and therefore it's sort of a one-sided battle, the fantastical one written to be over the top and untouchable will naturally win.

It's best to wait until Nolan's realistic Joker and then do a poll like this.

[Darth Sinister]

Two things.

1. The Joker isn't impervious. He's just hard to kill.

2. They can exist in the same universe without having to say, "Let's use Heath Ledger and not the comic version." That's just a horse shit thing. This is a what-if scenario. Nothing more.

That said, the Joker can take out someone like Lecter because all the good doctor is is a doctor who loves to eat people. He's nothing more than that. The Joker is the boogeyman of the DCU. The only person as scary as him is Batman. The Joker is a guy who uses guns, knives, acid, poison gas, lethal joy buzzers, gernades and cars to kill people. The man can outfight the majority of the DCU heroes and villains. The man has also survived being stabbed, shot, hung and blown up.

[Geddy Peart]

2. They can exist in the same universe without having to say, "Let's use Heath Ledger and not the comic version." That's just a horse shit thing. This is a what-if scenario. Nothing more.




This is how I feel. Both characters are fantastical. Even though Hannibal lives in the "real" world, he's exibited abilities that even the most real-life serial killers don't have (ie. his super intellect/intelligence, sense of smell, instances of great strength).

Yes, there have been real-life maniacs/killers that have shown similar traits, but none of them have had all of the above. Lector does, and they're exagerrated for the sake of making him a great villian. That is why he's fantastical.

[DRE]

2. They can exist in the same universe without having to say, "Let's use Heath Ledger and not the comic version." That's just a horse shit thing. This is a what-if scenario. Nothing more.

How is that a "Horse shit" thing exactly? If you're gonna "What if" something like this, why not make it a match based on some even ground, as opposed to a combination that will obviously be a one sided fight. Of course the fucking Joker is gonna win this, due to all the reasons you've listed. You want to make it an interesting "What if" put him up against Darth Vader or Apocalypse, not a lowly old "Doctor that eats people."



The man has also survived being stabbed, shot, hung and blown up.


All the more reason it's an illogical one sided battle.

[Geddy Peart]

All the more reason it's an illogical one sided battle.


At the same time Lector has survived being shot multiple times (beginning of Red Dragon) as well as having no problem chopping off his own hand to escape custody (Hannibal)

[Deathscythe]

Joker didn't survive getting shot in RoTJ. >_>

[DRE]

At the same time Lector has survived being shot multiple times (beginning of Red Dragon) as well as having no problem chopping off his own hand to escape custody (Hannibal)


Not the same ballpark.

[Darth Sinister]

How is that a "Horse shit" thing exactly? If you're gonna "What if" something like this, why not make it a match based on some even ground, as opposed to a combination that will obviously be a one sided fight. Of course the fucking Joker is gonna win this, due to all the reasons you've listed. You want to make it an interesting "What if" put him up against Darth Vader or Apocalypse, not a lowly old "Doctor that eats people."

The match up is realistic. You have a doctor versus the ultimate pyscho. The fight would be one sided because out of the two of them, only one has actually fought hand to hand with people.

All the more reason it's an illogical one sided battle.

I'm just pointing out that he's hard to kill.

Not the same ballpark.

Are you fucking kidding me? Lector survived being shot multiple times. That's no less illogical than the Joker getting stabbed and then turning around in the next story, alive and healthy, with the paramedic saying "Wasn't he dead?"

Joker didn't survive getting shot in RoTJ.

That's because he was supposed to die there. It wasn't getting shot that killed him. It was getting shot with the flag that hit his heart, piercing it, that killed him.

[DRE]

The match up is realistic. You have a doctor versus the ultimate pyscho. The fight would be one sided because out of the two of them, only one has actually fought hand to hand with people.


The fight is one sided because one is "Hard to kill" while the other can realistically die.




Are you fucking kidding me? Lector survived being shot multiple times. That's no less illogical than the Joker getting stabbed and then turning around in the next story, alive and healthy, with the paramedic saying "Wasn't he dead?"


Oh come now Lord Sinister, people in reality have survived losing a hand and getting shot as many times as Lecter did (If 50 Cent can get shot nine times and live, surly Dr. Lecter can as well.)

But, I've never heard of a single person surviving getting shot, hanged, stabbed and blown up. Unless that person's last name is Voorhees.

[Deathscythe]

That's because he was supposed to die there. It wasn't getting shot that killed him. It was getting shot with the flag that hit his heart, piercing it, that killed him.

Haha, I was just messing around. Never thought Joker would get killed by Robin in any comic/cartoon/film through.

[ZPowers]

There are multiple one-shot comics and stuff where the Joker died. Dark Knight Returns, for example, showed no super-endurance (although it is speculated that Joker's numbed somehow to pain due to the chemical bath, it's not that he's superhuman). Discount any extraordinary come backs from death (Its seldom Joker actually gets hurt enough to make the reader incredulous anyways) and the fight isn't changed, or at least not from my perscpective. Certainly Lecter would come into the world as older and a little less able than the Joker and have the endurance of say, a Scarecrow. Definitly not the god-like power of Superman or even the muscle of a Killer Croc or Bruce Wayne. Joker still wins if they go hand to hand. Plus, there's no way you're gonna conivince me that if they do go at it up close, Lecter's anywhere near as full of tricks as the Joker.

[Darth Sinister]

The fight is one sided because one is "Hard to kill" while the other can realistically die.

The Joker can realistically die. The only reason he doesn't is because he's one of DC's biggest cashcows.

Oh come now Lord Sinister, people in reality have survived losing a hand and getting shot as many times as Lecter did (If 50 Cent can get shot nine times and live, surly Dr. Lecter can as well.)

But, I've never heard of a single person surviving getting shot, hanged, stabbed and blown up. Unless that person's last name is Voorhees.

Joker's gunshot wounds are mainly to the hands, a couple to the chest and one that grazed the top of his head enough to give him speech problems for a time and adhere the grin to his face longer, all of which he survived thanks to medicial intervention. A lot of people can survive being stabbed. I'm not certain about being hung, but I believe it has happened. And blown up only means that the body was never found when the smoke cleared and the rubble was swept away. Whether he was in the blast is up for debate, since he's often last seen in it.

[ZPowers]

People have survived being hung. It's not even that uncommon for a noose not to break your neck and then you just start to choke, and if you get out of it before you suffocate, bam, you've survived being hung. If he fell like a really long time before the rope became taut, that's pretty unrealistic.

[DRE]

Oh yeah, I've heard of people surviving a hanging before, I just meant all of that stuff happening to one man. But I digress, Joker does win this battle. Now Lex Luthor against Lecter, that's another story. :evil:

BTW, nice avatar Darth.

[Darth Sinister]

Yeah, I've been doing a basic overview of Superman's current history. Though I don't know how in-depth I'll go. As to Lex, he does know some martial arts when he doesn't have to rely on his warsuits.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o170/darth-ermac/DC/JLA9-1.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o170/darth-ermac/DC/DC-2/DC-3/Lex-1.jpg

[Deathscythe]

Haha at that picture, go go go you mighty morphin Lex Luthor!!!

[Darth Sinister]

Well, it allows Lex to fight Superman on equal terms because of this...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g92/darth-sinister/Avatars/Luthor.jpg

[Deathscythe]

Actually, looking at the image, he kinda looks like the Green Goblin with the green/purple.

[Amadeus]

I say Lector would just eat the Joker and it'd be over with.

Yeah, and then he'd look at Clarice and ask "Does this taste funny to you?"

[Jigsaw]

Doesn't The Joker have toxic blood? If he does, then Lector is done for if he somehow devours The Joker.

[Darth Sinister]

Knowing the Joker, he'd have his venom within his blood since he is immune to it. Thus if he was eaten by a shark, Killer Croc or the late Everyman, the person doing the eating would be in for a surprise. The Joker would have the last laugh, even at the expense of his own life.

[Deathscythe]

I can imagien Joker laughing while Lecter is eating him.

[Jigsaw]

Knowing the Joker, he'd have his venom within his blood since he is immune to it. Thus if he was eaten by a shark, Killer Croc or the late Everyman, the person doing the eating would be in for a surprise. The Joker would have the last laugh, even at the expense of his own life.


Thought so :evil: