Doctor Who [Archive] - F13: The Community

Just Jeans

07-13-2007, 10:27 PM

Alex DeLarge

07-13-2007, 10:37 PM

I'd compare it to Superman Returns and the original two films. The old films DID happen, years and years ago, and it takes place in the same universe and has tons of references for people who know where to look. But for everyone else, it treats the mythology as brand-new and tells you everything you need to know.

DRE

07-13-2007, 10:37 PM

Whoa! That would be twenty six seasons of the classic show and a telefilm to catch up on. Is all of that even available on DVD?

Alex DeLarge

07-13-2007, 10:46 PM

They're the same series. Doctor Who 2005 is a direct continuation from the classic series, set at an undetermined point after the 1996 Television Film. The reason it's been successful despite being a relaunch rather than a re envisioning is because it's produced as if it is a brand new show. The classic series more-or-less acts as back story. The currentr series tells you what you need to know when you need to know it, but no more.

I've always felt that Doctor Who 2005 is pretty much what the show would have evolved into had it not gone off the air in 1989.

In the end, whether you prefer the 1963-1989 run or the 2005-Present run is down to personal taste. It depends on what kind of telly you prefer, because while they're the same show, they're both a product of their time.

Apart from the production team knowing better than to rely too much on the classic series, the BBC Charter would prevent them getting too continuity heavy anyway. It's strictly forbidden for a current television show to run story lines that are contingent on you having to buy something else (in this case the novels or the classic DVDs) to understand what's going on (in spirit the show is a continuation, but from a business stand point it isn't, which is why the 2005 season is sold as Series 1 rather than as season 27.).

Really? I know the Charter prevents this in the novels and such, because you HAVE to buy it, but I remember Lance Parkin saying if they wanted to do a sequel to Human Nature instead of a remake, they could've because it was free on the BBC website. Same with the classic series, it's still shown in repeats. It's available for free in some form, so the Charter allows that. The problem occurs when a story is continued (or continues from) a story that is not for free. It's what EastEnders got in trouble for. Had a cliffhanger that was resolved in a VHS exclusive. But if they wanted to do a Talons of Wein-Chiang 2, they're allowed because you can watch Talons of Wein-Chang for free.

Whoa! That would be twenty six seasons of the classic show and a telefilm to catch up on. Is all of that even available on DVD?

Nope. Stories are sold separately and a big chunk, but not close to all, are available. And a lot of Hartnell and a GOOD deal of Troughton stories were destroyed! The new series is told like an American show, like Buffy. 13 episodes with a rough story arc and a few two-parters. I still say, the new series is a good place to start. It reintroduces the Doctor Who mythos for a 21st century audience and if you enjoy that, then you can get into a couple really good stories.

Just Jeans

07-13-2007, 10:49 PM

Whoa! That would be twenty six seasons of the classic show and a telefilm to catch up on. Is all of that even available on DVD?

No. In fact, a lot of it from the early days doesn't even exist anymore. The BBC had a bad habit of junking their television shows. As a result a handful of the First Doctor's stories are missing, and over half of the second Doctor's stories no longer exist (which is a shame, because he's my favorite).

You really don't need to know anything about 1963-1996 to be able to watch from 2005 onward. It might enrich the experience, but it is by no means a necessity.

Something else about the classic series to keep in mind is that it's very arc light. If you know the basic concept, you can jump in on any story and enjoy it (if you enjoy older television). I have 10 classic series DVDs, scattered all through the series, and I have enjoyed each one... but then I've seen 1970 to 1975 uninterrupted, and I've seen all three season of McCoy.

There are a couple of arcs in the classic series -- The Key to Time and The Trial of the Time Lord -- but they are (or will be) released in sets together.

As for the 1996 TV Movie...don't hold your breath on seeing that, unless you want to buy it in region 2. Universal (co)owns the rights for home releasse, and much like Phantasm II, it just ain't happening.

DRE

07-13-2007, 10:51 PM

Well, my best bet is to start with the 2005 series, so on my next round of DVD hunting I will include it on my list.

Just Jeans

07-13-2007, 10:57 PM

Go with a lot of cash. BBC Worldwide asks an arm and a leg for series 1 and 2. It'll cost you nearly $200.00 to get them together (depending on where you look). Best Buy in my area doesn't even carry Doctor Who anymore. *grumbles*

Have a look at this, Andre: The Doctor Who Episode Guide (http://www.gallifreyone.com/epguide.php). Eccleston is where you want to begin.

DRE

07-13-2007, 11:14 PM

The Ninth Doctor it is. Yeah, I know what it's like to be raped by the studios (Especially Paramount!). Like a dummy, I bought each of the Classic Trek discs (When they were being sold separately) and the bare bones versions of the films and then not much later I got it all over again when they double dipped.

I paid a hundred dollars each for seven seasons of TNG, DS9 and sadly Voyager (I couldn't leave it out in the cold.)

Alex DeLarge

07-13-2007, 11:42 PM

Go with a lot of cash. BBC Worldwide asks an arm and a leg for series 1 and 2. It'll cost you nearly $200.00 to get them together (depending on where you look). Best Buy in my area doesn't even carry Doctor Who anymore. *grumbles*

I got both for $70. $140 for 27 episodes of the finest TV out there, a Children in Need special, commentaries on EVERY episode, tons of little documentaries, hilarious outtakes, in-depth interviews, 27 Doctor Who Confidentials (albeit cut-down) and a nice little booklet with awesome pictures and a message from Julie Gardner isn't a bad deal at all.

Shoesalesman

07-14-2007, 01:29 AM

Am I a bit weird when I say I miss the cheap, low-budget effects from the old series? :geek:

I love the fact that today's Doctor/the creators care enough to make the effects on a bigger scale, but part of me loves the bubble gum effects of yesterday. Not just talking about Doctor Who, but other science fiction shows and movies.

Alex DeLarge

07-14-2007, 01:52 AM

Yeah, old school effects are nice for nostaglic reasons and the new team even realizes it too, hence why with the exception of the ray guns and some stuff to make the Weeping Angels stay still, episodes like Human Nature and Blink are CGI-less. But at the same time, the Mill does some jaw-droppingly GORGEOUS work. I mean, the city of New New York, the Globe Theater... beautiful, BEAUTIFUL stuff. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Shoesalesman

07-14-2007, 01:55 AM

Yes, Gridlock had the Star Wars look to it at the end. Very impressive effects indeed.

Just Jeans

07-14-2007, 07:28 AM

$140... isn't a bad deal at all.

It's a real pain in the ass when you haven't worked in over two and a half years. I've only managed to pick up series 1, and that's only because my step father got a bonus last Christmas. :X I'm hoping to get series 2 before series 3 comes out, but if I don't, I'll probably get series 3 for Christmas and skip series 2 for now. Series 3 is by far a higher priority.

Am I a bit weird when I say I miss the cheap, low-budget effects from the old series? :geek:

The only thing I really miss is some of the model work. I know it was cheesy for the most part in the classic series -- a single episode of Doctor Who cost less than 5,000 pounds to produce -- but I always liked the model shots of the TARDIS. The opening sequence from Trial of a Time Lord shows what they could do with the right kind of money, but so far since the return we've only ever seen a CGI TARDIS in flight.

But I'm just a fan of model shots. :geek:

It's amazing how good their CGI looks, especially for a show produced on the tight budget that it is. The work the Mill do blow most American TV CGI out of the water.

Alex DeLarge

07-14-2007, 08:36 AM

Yeah, that's one thing I adore about the new series. From the dialogue to the special effects to the music, it's got the standards of a big-budget Hollywood movie, not an American television show. Part of that is because of the 13 eps vs. 22, and part of that (a bigger part, mind) is because we have damn talented people, who know how to make quality work and manage budget.

The Dark Vampire

07-14-2007, 10:14 AM

We got the first ever episode The Unearthly Child.

But I just read on Wiki that the one we got with Susan saying she was born in the 49th century hasn’t ever been aired before

FinalBeyond

07-14-2007, 03:42 PM

Any English members with UKTV Drama, watch today and tomorrow. They're doing a best of omnibus, with one from every Doctor, it seems.

At the moment, The Three Doctors is on, as Pertwee's representation, and next up, they've got The Deadly Assassin. :D

The Dark Vampire

07-14-2007, 03:54 PM

Watching it now I like the way The Doctor's don't get along with each other I wonder if that is carried over into the other multiple Doctor stories

Just Jeans

07-14-2007, 05:20 PM

The Three Doctors is one of my favorite Pertwee stories by virtue of the fact that Patrick Troughton is in it, and is awesome. His relationship with Jon Pertwee in those episodes is excellent, and it's a shame that they didn't have more screen time together in The Five Doctors.

The relationship between the Doctors is always a little antagonistic when they meet, but Troughton and Pertwee had the best chemistry. Their bickering is classic.

The Brigadier also has one of my favorite moments in any of his episodes during The Three Doctors. Nick Courtney gets a little too over enthusiastic when he's ordering Benton to shoot at the sludge creature -- Don't just stand there man, OPEN FIRE! -- and it always made me really giggly. :lol:

But I just read on Wiki that the one we got with Susan saying she was born in the 49th century hasn’t ever been aired before

It was in the pilot of the first episode from An Unearthly Child. It can be found on the double tape set for The Edge of Destruction and I think it's a part of The Beginning box set. I'm glad that line was removed from the episode as it went out. I've always liked the idea that the Time Lords exist outside of time, in their own little bubble.

That pilot is interesting, though. The Doctor is even meaner to Ian and Barbara than he is in the finished version. :zip:

Shoesalesman

07-14-2007, 08:42 PM

I picked up The Mind Robber, with I believe the second Doctor, on VHS at a garage sale last year. Not having seen anything prior to the fourth Doctor, I found the classic b/w added a sense of class and pedigree to the characters, almost like it was a play and not a TV show. I compare this tape with today's version and the respect factor (creator's approach to developing a great storyline, with real emotions) seems to have carried on through the decades.

Alex DeLarge

07-14-2007, 10:00 PM

Strangely, doesn't the Mind Robber have a character named Captain Jack Harkaway? Made me laugh when I first read it.:D

The Dark Vampire

07-15-2007, 02:24 AM

I bought this today a TARDIS mini fridge (cooler)
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FD37HC3RL._AA280_.jpg

The light flashes and you get the TARDIS engine noise when you close the door and The doctor saying "did you miss me" when you open it

Just Jeans

07-15-2007, 02:50 AM

I'm gutted! I've been wanting one of those! :hypno: They're too expensive here in the states, though.

I picked up The Mind Robber, with I believe the second Doctor, on VHS at a garage sale last year.

The Mind Robber is Patrick Troughton, yes. Great story -- one of his best that still exist, in fact. The DVD is out now, I just haven't had the money to pick it up yet. The Land of Fiction is something I really want to see back in the new series.

The Doctor and Jamie are my favorite Doctor/Companion pair. I've been wanting another pairing like that in the modern series, but still no dice. The 10th Doctor/Mickey is as close as we've gotten.

I've got all of Troughton's full stories on VHS. There are a few that are almost full that I don't have yet but I'm waiting for DVD before I get them. I need to get the Lost In Time box set, which has scattered bits left over from Hartnell/Troughton.

The First Doctor Regenerates. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5UWxU32NMA) The only remaining footage of the first regeneration.
Original Cybermen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsv4SThsCtE&mode=related&search=) - As seen in The Tenth Planet.

The Dark Vampire

07-15-2007, 02:55 AM

I'm gutted! I've been wanting one of those! :hypno: They're too expensive here in the states, though.

I got it in the sale it should of been £50 (about $100) but I picked it up for £15 (about $30) not bad really

Just Jeans

07-15-2007, 03:10 AM

They don't have it in stock now, but when last they did WHONA wanted around $130.00 for it.

I desperately want this:

http://www.whona.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/tardisusbhub.jpg

$25.00 right now. I hate being penniless. :(
ADDED:
I thought this was neat -- a custom NEXT TIME trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vucn9PdyV8&mode=related&search=) done for The Tenth Planet.

Alex DeLarge

07-15-2007, 03:35 AM

The Tenth Planet Cybermen pwn. Creepiest voice ever. They're my third favorite after the Tomb of the Cybermen Telos ones and the Cybusmen.

FinalBeyond

07-15-2007, 02:01 PM

At the moment, I've got two TARDIS money boxes. One of the new official ones, and an old ceramic one. :p

Just Jeans

07-15-2007, 02:27 PM

I plan on getting the current money box, I just hope I get the 10th Doctor one rather than the 9th Doctor one. Apparently, Character Options made the 10th Doctor one slightly larger so that it sits along side the 5" figures and looks properly proportioned.

But what I really want is that bloomin' USB hub. I've got so many USB wires running all over the place, a hub would be blissful.

The Dark Vampire

07-15-2007, 03:16 PM

After watching the classic series (The Movie is on right now)

I hope we will get to see more of the TARDIS in future episodes and not just the console room I don’t think newer fans will relies just how big it really is

Just Jeans

07-15-2007, 09:43 PM

It's not as big as it once was. The Doctor kept jettisoning bits of it off through the classic series, so a lot of stuff is gone now.

In the books, the TARDIS has three console rooms (the regular white one, the wooden one that was used in Tom Baker's era for one season, and the tertiary console room, which is the one the Doctor uses the most in the books; it's made of stone and marble, ands the time rotor is made of rock, too), a cafateria, a swimming pool, a gym, a hospital, a basket ball court... although, to be fair, the TARDIS in the books isn't the one he had in the series. Apparently.

The production team were going to add more rooms for series 3, but the cost of tearing down the set and rebuilding it (they moved to a bigger studio for series 3) cost too much, and they scrapped the plan to construct another room/hallway for them to shoot in. They may go through with it for series 4.

Alex DeLarge

07-15-2007, 11:38 PM

And TECHNICALLY, we HAVE seen another room. The wardrobe room in the Christmas Invasion.

The Dark Vampire

07-15-2007, 11:50 PM

True
Series 3 spoiler
Some are speculating that in fact The Titanic was in another room as the outside of the ship is indestructible

Post these again
Doctor Who and Star Trek meet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwxMwDfSLMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzAdoTrxehk
Which makes me think if this did happen which Doctor should meet which ST Crew

Shoesalesman

07-16-2007, 03:16 PM

Speaking of different rooms in the TARDIS, I recall the 5th Doctor had to sacrifice a room in order to save the TARDIS and those inside during time travel, then built a healing box for himself. Or at least I think this is what happened.

FinalBeyond

07-16-2007, 04:22 PM

Yeah, he jettisoned a whole lot, including the Zero Room. Didn't he make the box from the doors?

Just Jeans

07-16-2007, 04:50 PM

That sounds like it's probably from Castrovala -- that's the story in which he jettisons the Zero Room, I think -- but I haven't had the chance to see it yet, so I'm not sure about the box.

In other news, I just ordered The Stealers of Dreams used, because no site I frequent had the book in-stock new. I also managed to snag a copy of The Nightmare Of Black Island new, so I've got the last 9th Doctor book and one of the 10th Doctor books on the way. I'll own all of the 9th Doctor books when I get it, and I'll own two of the 10th Doctor books.

Slowly, my collection swells.

Shoesalesman

07-16-2007, 06:11 PM

That sounds like it's probably from Castrovala -- that's the story in which he jettisons the Zero Room, I think -- but I haven't had the chance to see it yet, so I'm not sure about the box.

THANK YOU! I've been trying to remember the name of that episode all morning. :D

FinalBeyond, I do remember now that the doors were used. Thanks too!

It was this episode where, as a young, new watcher, I first feared for the Doctor's wellbeing, to the point where I wondered if he would die. :pray:

Just Jeans

07-17-2007, 12:28 PM

Castrovala is out on DVD now as part of a three serial set, coming in at a total of 12 episodes -- The Keeper of Traken, Logopolis and Castrovala. It was released because the three stories form a trilogy and also re-introduce the Master as a regular again after his one-off appearance in The Deadly Assassin.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x124/f13thtribute/newbegin.jpg

It's a dead cheap on Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Beginnings-Logopolis-Castrovalva/dp/B000NJXG8G/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3578695-9773239?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1184671782&sr=8-1) right now -- only $34.99, which isn't bad considering it's three stories and a ton of bonus features (including a posthumous commentary by Anthony Ainley).

Shoesalesman

07-17-2007, 03:32 PM

Cool. I'll have to add that to my Christmas list. :D

Killa Pimp

07-18-2007, 01:08 AM

interesting read:

http://www.syfyportal.com/news423909.html

Alex DeLarge

07-18-2007, 02:53 AM

Of course it'll survive without Davies. Didn't need Moffat to tell us that.

Interesting his reaction about being asked if he's going to take over. Sounds a lot like that radio interview where Simm got uncomfortable when they asked about the possibility of being the Master... Still, he could genuinely be uncomfortable and hasn't decided yet. If they have asked him. If Davies IS leaving with Series 4. None of which have anything near confirmation...

Just Jeans

07-18-2007, 03:57 AM

If RTD is leaving with series 4, I suspect we won't know until work on series 5 is just about to begin. I'm sure there will be insiders leaking information, but as far as official word is concerned, I think there will be very little.

With Moffat having just acted as show runner for Jekyll though, I have to wonder if they're planning on doing a second series of that? If he was to replace RTD, surely he wouldn't have time to run two shows at once? Not even RTD does that -- he pretty much leaves Chris Chibnall in charge of Torchwood and Gareth Roberts is doing most the leg work for The Sarah Jane Adventures.

Just Jeans

07-19-2007, 02:59 PM

If you've got the kind of money to buy WETA collectibles, now's the time to direct it toward Doctor Who. WETA is about to release a limited line of Doctor Who collectibles, which will be on display at the up-coming San Diego Comic Con.

Today Weta Limited announced they will be creating, in collaboration with BBC Worldwide, a line of Collectible statues based on the popular television series, Doctor Who.

Doctor Who is produced by the BBC and is the longest-running science fiction television series in the world. It follows the adventures of a time-traveller called 'the Doctor', who travels time in a phone box, solving problems and righting wrongs.

The Weta Collectibles line will incorporate key moments Doctor Who. The initial series will consist of four pieces, all of which capture a nostalgic scene from the series. Each piece will be made at 6th scale, be free standing, and made out of high quality polystone. Weta Sculptors Ben Hawker, Dan Cockersell, Eden Small and Gary Hunt created the pieces in collaboration with Weta Model Maker David Tremont.

The first episode of Doctor Who launched on BBC Television on 23 November 1963. There have been more than 600 episodes, 150 stories and two television movies. The show has become a television favourite for fans worldwide and has influenced generations, including David himself. He says he has been a fan of the series since a child, and when the opportunity came up to create Weta Collectibles based on the series he couldn't believe his luck. "I started watching the series when it first aired back in the sixties", he says. "It was inspiring to watch. The images scared the heck out of me as a child, but at the same time they were so fascinating, too. I really learned the meaning of 'watching from behind the couch.' In fact, it was the Doctor Who series amongst others that inspired me to get into model making in the first place."

David says the series set the benchmark for television drama. "Doctor Who pushed the boundaries with their imagination, it was so very different from anything else I had ever seen", he says. "It's a very unique, very exciting story. I mean, who else could have thought of travelling time in a phone box!?"

Weta Limited Manager Jamie Wilson said the opportunity to work on Doctor Who merchandise is exciting for all involved. "Doctor Who is such an iconic series, with a huge following all over the world", says Jamie. "We have chosen memorable moments from the series that capture the power, emotion and transformed them into dynamic collectible pieces. We hope the fans will enjoy these collectibles as much as we have had making them."

Selected pieces will be on display at the 2007 San Diego Comic Con from 25 - 29 July, meaning that Comic Con attendees will be the first to view the range. The Weta Limited stand is number 2615. The official images of the pieces will be revealed the following day, on 26 July.

Pricing, purchasing dates and edition size announcements will be made at a later date.

Dezibluenose

07-19-2007, 07:08 PM

Just Jeans

07-21-2007, 03:11 AM

The filming of series 3 has been delayed due to the unfortunate passing of David Tennant's mother.

syfyportal.com reports that filming of Voyage of the Damned will be delayed this weekend so David Tennant can attend his mothers funeral.

Tennant's mother, Helen McDonald, died on Sunday, July 15th after a long battle with cancer, she was 67. The funeral will take place at Renfrew North with the Very Rev. James Simpson -- a chaplain to Queen Elizabeth II -- officiating.

Filming is expected to resume next week for the Christmas special which will premiere on Dec. 25 on BBC One. The fourth season of "Doctor Who" will air in early 2008, with the third season currently airing Friday nights in the United States on SciFi Channel.

My thoughts are with Tennant and his family. :(

Shoesalesman

07-22-2007, 02:36 AM

Warm thoughts for your mother and family go out to you, David.

Just Jeans

07-22-2007, 10:38 PM

Alex DeLarge

07-22-2007, 11:13 PM

I finally join the ranks of geeky fans everywhere who do tribute videos and put them on YouTube:

bbjqrIsctGA

Mind you, I did this video nearly two years ago, I only just decided to upload it. It uploaded cleaner than I thought it would, at least. Still looks ass compared to the full-size AVI.

Fantastic vid, Jeans! Perfectly sums up Eccleston and his Doctor and the relationship with Rose and everything. Love the use of the eps in order during the chorouses. Loved it, but my favorite is still this:

68JLFdu18yw

And my sincerest condolences to David and his family. RIP. :(

Just Jeans

07-23-2007, 02:11 AM

As much pride as I take in that Eccleston video, I have to admit -- the What About Everything video trumps it easily. Very emotional, it made me tear up a bit. :cry:

I'm going to have to upload the two Angel videos I did so you can see those, Alex. My sister likes to say I'm going to burn in hell for the "Fred Lost" video. :X

Alex DeLarge

07-23-2007, 03:23 AM

I look forward to 'em. :D

And yeah, that What About Everything video is something. The song describes Doctor Who in a nutshell and I agree, I always tear up a bit during the Sarah Jane bit.:cry:

Just Jeans

07-23-2007, 05:08 AM

The first of (three) Angel videos is now up, Alex. You can see it here (http://www.richardgibbs.co.uk/alpha/f13/showthread.php?p=8666#post8666).

If you click the title of the video, it'll take you to the actual YouTube page. After you watch it, click the link and rate the video, maybe? :D

DrLar

07-23-2007, 02:35 PM

I just finished viewing season 2, started season 3 with a dissapointment, footage is also lost for at least the first 4 episodes, we got the stills and narrative subtitles in it, I hope the second part of season 3 is OK.

I have this doubt about Susan Foreman if she's from Gallifrey and/or direct descendant from the Doctor, and she stood in 2146* in Earth, shouldn't her be alive (in her timeline)? if she married that guy she stood for, she could have family and more half gallifreyan offspring. (or am I too crazy right now?)

Alex DeLarge

07-23-2007, 04:22 PM

Scarecrow

07-23-2007, 04:41 PM

Long story, Susan was erased from the timeline. It's confusing and not explained very well, but Susan IS NOT there anymore. That's why in Dalek, the Doctor didn't just assume it was a pre-Time War Dalek. There ARE no pre-Time War Daleks or Time Lords ANYWHERE. Neither the Daleks nor Susan are alive in 2146.

There is NOTHING to provce that other than some random guesses made up by fans who want things to be more complicated than they are.

How about, Susan got called away to fight? Or she refused to regenerate and died alongside her husband? Or a hundre dother more likely things.

Time Lords generally meet ecah other in order and have an anchored chronology. With this in mind, it's an easy assumption to make that when Daleks developed to an extent to wage war they're timelines were converged. For the Doctor and theDaleks they are all wiped out... they don't interfere in their own past unless they have to. Thus the Dalek in Dalek could not contact any oter daleks and the Doctor knew it had to be a Time War dalek.

Not to mention the above fan theory utterly fails to nitce how Captain jack and people 5 billion years in the future know the Time Lords/Daleks and how Jack even says the daleks were a massive forced that vanished over-night... which the Doctor says was to fight the Time War.

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

07-23-2007, 04:46 PM

Okay, you got me. I worded it wrong. My point isn't Gallifrey/Time Lords/Daleks are gone from the timeline, just inaccessible. He can never see Susan again or see the pre-Time War Daleks. They're still technically there.

But hey, at least I didn't claim Susan somehow wasn't his granddaughter.;)

DrLar

07-23-2007, 07:52 PM

Or he called The Doctor granfather because he raised her? like a foster parent or where's the doctor's son/daughter? We know for the first ever episode title she's gallifreyan (sp?) "an UNEARTHLY child" says it so. Does she make an appearance on the 5 Doctor's episode?

The Dark Vampire

07-23-2007, 07:59 PM

I asked and it was said they did say she was biologically his granddaughter even in the new Who he mantions he was a farther once so been a grandfarther after 900+ years of life does fit

But that wasn't the plan when the Unearthly Child was first write but then they thought having a old man travel around with a 15 year old girl was odd unless she was related

DrLar

07-23-2007, 09:10 PM

Or new material for season 4 perhaps? Like they did for Sarah Jane, Susan (Carole Ann Ford) may be also alive in her timeline and 68 years old real age of the actress and play a role in it? Russell T. may have that in mind, although he implied with the Master's death that the Doctor is all alone, but they said the same about Daleks and they keep showing up.

Just Jeans

07-23-2007, 09:22 PM

Verity Lambert and Carole Ann Ford have both gone on record about the relationship between Susan and the Doctor, and that relationship was biological. The new production team could come along and retcon that of course -- the New Adventures really bungled up the relationship between the Doctor and Susan, in my opinion -- but so far as the production team were concerned in 1963, the Doctor was Susan's biological grandfather. That's good enough for me.

As for the timelines and the Daleks in 2146... Russell T Davies has made it clear in the new series that the Daleks the Doctor has faced are meant to be the last Daleks in existence. If the Doctor went to the point where he left Susan, the Daleks wouldn't exist anymore. It's right there in the dialog: Captain Jack says that the Daleks vanished from time and the Doctor tells Jack that they were summoned to fight the Time War. The Doctor also refers to Dalek Caan as the last Dalek in existence.

This all goes back to Eccleston's line in The Unquiet Dead that time is in flux, always changing, and that history can be rewritten in a snap. It's not hard to infer from what we've seen in the new episodes that pre-Time War Daleks no longer exist by virtue of the fact that a Time War fought across time and space did for them as well as the Time Lords. Just because they were utterly obliterated from time doesn't unnecessarily mean they'll be forgotten by the universe. Science Fantasy is funny like that.

I think it's safe to say Susan probably fought in the Time War, too. I can't imagine that she wouldn't. If she didn't, there'd be very little reason for the Doctor's "We're the last of our kind... there's no one else... REGENERATE!" bit in the finale of series 3. If he still had Susan, he wouldn't be so desperate to save the Master.

Even if she chose not to regenerate, she couldn't have grown old alongside David, because Time Lords live an exceptionally long time compared to humans, even without regenerating.

Mind you, I'd be chuffed if RTD opted to reintroduce Susan via the Chameleon Arch. I could imagine the Doctor coaxing Susan into using it before the Time War hit full thrust.

Scarecrow

07-24-2007, 08:58 AM

Actually the line in The Unquiet Dead was simply a replacment for a scene taken from Pyramids of Mars where the Doctor would show her an alternative future. It was there to make it clear that the dange rin the past does exist, nothing more.

The Daleks could easily be wipe dout in context to him. Jack doesn't say Daleks vanished from all periods. His words imply they were there then suddenly vanished. The original series never really went past the year 4000 with the Daleks so the Time War Daleks are probably well past that. Jack says they all went to fight the Tiem War doens't in any way suggest they vanished.

Not to mention it's just really silly. It wipes out half the classic series... and yet it doesn't. And those who use this theory simply say "oh it's time travel, it both did and didn't happen". Huh. How about it did all happen and the Daleks and Time Lords only vanish post- the adventures we saw in the classic series. The TARDIS just never crosses paths with the Doctors own past as it wouldn't be good, like he never met Time Lords out of order, pretty much. Science-fiction Universes are funny like that.

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

07-24-2007, 11:54 PM

Okay, after thinking about this, how about this? I think this satisifies both Jeans and Scarecrow and DrLar.

The Time Lords and Daleks still exist. They are still there in creation. It's just it is physically impossible for a post-Time War Doctor to visit them. Time Lords are still here and there in their respective histories and continuites, but they are incessible to people. The Daleks DID physically disappear but after the Time War, time travelers can no longer interact with them. Therefore the classic series DID happen.

Think of it like this. Anywhere with the Time Lords or Daleks are to time travelers what the past is to us. It happened and its ramifications are seen everywhere, but you cannot "go back" and see them. Does that make sense?

Shoesalesman

07-25-2007, 12:28 AM

Just watched Daleks In Manhattan and Evolution Of The Daleks last night.

The make-up effects were sensational!!! Great storyline that gave the Daleks their greatest challenge - seeing things in our shoes. I guess when extinction kicks you in the nards some drastic measures are needed.

Man, I never get tired of seeing the Daleks. :D

Just Jeans

07-25-2007, 01:20 AM

For me, the Dalek two-parter in series 3 is the weakest story of the season. It wasn't bad by any means, and I liked Sec as a human Dalek, but I don't think it was the best story.

Alex - that just doesn't make sense to me. The Doctor wouldn't keep going on about the Time Lords being extinct if they still existed but couldn't be reached. That's tantamount to what happened between him and Rose -- she's still alive, but can never be reached -- and I think the Doctor could live with the knowledge that while he might never be able to see them again, the Time Lords still exist in some fashion. He wouldn't be suffering from survivors guilt if the Time Lords survived in the past. The way RTD has fashioned the new series and the Doctor's character, the only explanation that even seems dramatically suitable is that the Time Lords were wiped out of time.

I also don't believe that the Time Lords being destroyed renders the classic series null and void, but it does open the door for the current production team to be able to do just about anything they want. A good example of this is Torchwood. The 3rd Doctor's time with UNIT becomes a little less easy to swallow with the introduction of Torchwood, because Torchwood are actively seeking the Doctor. I find it hard to believe they would simply ignore him during his Earth-bound tenure.

But with time constantly in flux and things changing all around them, it means that anything can happen -- Harriet Jones being ousted and the Master's rise to power illustrates this point perfectly. The same can be said about the events in Father's Day -- if the Time Lords still existed in some fashion, then they would have fixed the rip caused by Rose creating a headache of a paradox. The Doctor tells her that his people are all gone.

"They're all gone" and "They still exist, only during a point in time where I can't reach them" are two drastically different things.

The article that Russell T Davies wrote about the Time War in the 2006 Doctor Who Annual says outright that history is significantly altered, but it doesn't affect higher races (the Forest of Cheem is mentioned by name), which is presumably why they still remember the Daleks and the Time Lords.

The timelines of lesser races and planets shifted without the inhabitants of the worlds affected being aware of the changes in history, as they were a part of them (presumably including humans). "Higher Species" who were able to notice the changes included the Forest of Cheem, who were distraught at the bloodshed; the Nestene Consciousness, which lost all its planets and further mutated; the Greater Animus, which died; and the Eternals, who apparently fled this reality in despair, never to be seen again. The war lasted for years, and exactly how it ended was also not precisely known.

The history of many words within the Doctor Who universe saw significant change, and while most species didn't realize it, the higher species did. The extinction of the Time Lords is something the higher species would be well aware of.

If human history was significantly altered by the Time War, there's no reason that alteration can't include the events of The Dalek Invasion of Earth.

Alex DeLarge

07-25-2007, 01:44 AM

I suppose. In the end, it doesn't matter. The Time Lords are there, the Time Lords are not there, all that really matters is that the Doctor is ultimately alone now no Time Lords nor the Daleks, more or less...:p

But thinking about it, it's not really the same as Rose. All Time Lords WERE in the Time War and all died. I think it's akin to the fact that Rose is trapped in a parallel world NOW, but during the year 2005, Rose is still on Earth. In Father's Day, the Doctor implies he CAN go back and save the Time Lords. He just won't. But again, in the end, not THAT big of a deal in the show's context.

Also, even if it DOES wipe out most of the classic series, why is that a HUGE deal? Is Last of the Time Lords any less good because the parts that we saw happen were erased?

Just Jeans

07-25-2007, 02:48 AM

The Doctor only asks Rose if she thought the idea never occurred to him. He didn't say he could actually do it. He was trying to prove a point.

The scene in School Reunion where Mr. Finch tries to tempt the Doctor with the ability to save all the worlds that were lost in the Time War, to me, signifies that the Doctor couldn't just pop back in time and use his knowledge to stop the Time War. He would need the help of some universe-altering abilities (like the Skasis Paradigm) to do it.

In the end, it's the only aspect of Russell's Time War that really rubs me wrong. His assertion that it'll only ever act as back story and that they'll never explore it deeper than that is disappointing, because it's too vague for my liking.

Scarecrow

07-25-2007, 08:37 AM

So we're syaing the Dodo isn't extinct now because we could go back in time and see it if we had a Time machine? Time Lords have always pretty much met in order and they're a Higher Race. Just because he's a time traveller doens't mean he doesn't have his own persoanl timeline that moves forward. Gallifrey "Meantime" as it were. And in this the Time Lords are gone, wiped oiut and extint, as are the Daleks.

The forst of Cheem evolved billions of years in the future, probably billions after the Doctors main era (almost certainly if we think classic Daleks stories take place around the year 4000 and they're already gone by 200,000. Basically the fact that Cheem have heard of them AT ALL would be extremely unliekly (Cheem wouldn't have even existed then) unless the Time Lords did actually exist at one point to be remembered and the knowledge passed down.

Alex is exactly right, it's like saying he can't miss Rose as he could pop back and see her. He won#t "can't" because of the damage to the tiemline, just as he can never again be with his people because for his timeline they're all dead and gone.

And maybe some of it is FAN speculation but no more than the convoluted "they never existed" idea which DOES mean classic stories didn't happen the way we saw them at all (and the War Games would get resolved)... unless we just ignore that with a simple "oh it's a time thingy".

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

07-26-2007, 05:36 AM

So we're syaing the Dodo isn't extinct now because we could go back in time and see it if we had a Time machine?

That's not what I'm saying at all. But it's too much of a headache to explain it again, because it's a circular discussion.

Which is why I wish RTD would stop using the Time War as a vague backdrop and actually explore it's outcome and consequences.

The current series has made a habit of ignoring logic in the face of "it's a time thingy" explanations. It's part of the reason I adore the current series so much -- it doesn't let logic as we know it in the real world get in the way of an emotionally charged story (I wish more fantasy worked that way).

And frankly, I couldn't care less if everything that happened prior to the Time War blipped out of existence and no longer happened. It's not going to make the DVDs and fuzzy PBS recordings that I own any less valuable to me. So long as the show continues to tell interesting, fun stories, I'm happy.
ADDED:
A previous monster is returning in series 4, and they will be the title creature in their own story:

One of the New Series' most popular monsters, the Ood, are scheduled to reappear in the Fourth Series, according to the Times Online and confirmed on the Official Site.

The Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) and Donna (Catherine Tate) will encounter the fearsome aliens in an episode called "Planet of the Ood".

Show runner Russell T. Davies commented: "We're delighted the Ood are making a welcome return to Doctor Who. They were last seen falling into a black hole back in series two and we think it's only fair for the viewers to find out what the Ood have to say for themselves. Donna is certainly in for a shock."

According to the article, the episode will delve into the Oods' origins. No word yet on when in the series this episode occurs.

Alex DeLarge

07-26-2007, 05:48 AM

Fantastic. I always thought the Ood were under-developed. There was a lot of hints and such to backstory. Glad it's finally being picked up on...

Just Jeans

07-26-2007, 05:52 AM

I hope Ida Scott is involved. She probably won't be, but I'm smitten. I can dream. :shy:

Alex DeLarge

07-26-2007, 08:20 AM

Oooh, that would be nice. Always did like her!

Anyway, Marc Warren is a fantastic actor. I watched Love & Monsters and the Season 2 opener of Life on Mars?, and he is SO different. Sweet, kindly, gentle Elton Pope is a raging, psychopathic gangster (who beats his wife, Jabe the Tree:p)! He pulls off BOTH with SUCH conviction and yet at the same time, you can easily tell it's him in both! Good actor, hopes he does more.

Scarecrow

07-26-2007, 08:49 AM

He's great in Hellraiser: Deader as well. For me, he has that rare ability, shared with Jonny Depp, to completly change for each character.

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

07-26-2007, 08:52 AM

Indeed. Cheers to Marc Warren!:D

Just Jeans

07-26-2007, 07:54 PM

I saw him in an episode of Hustle a couple of months back. He was quite good in that, and very different as well. I might see Hellraiser: Deader now that I know he's in it. I just hope the film doesn't strangle his ability to act, a bit like Shark Attack 3 did to John Barrowman. :X

Alex DeLarge

07-26-2007, 08:49 PM

Well, personally, Deader is by far the best of the Hellraiser DTVs. I thought the film was very ambitious for the budget they were on and Marc was just another great addition...

Just Jeans

07-27-2007, 02:01 AM

Here's the actual BBC press release, in regards to the new I posted up thread: '

The Ood, one of Doctor Who's most popular aliens, will return for a brand new adventure in Series Four.

In Planet of the Ood, the Doctor and his new companion Donna will travel to a weird and wonderful alien planet, where she will meet the mysterious race for the first time.

The episode will allow viewers to discover the origins of The Ood and why they behave the way they do – but will the Doctor become their friend or foe?

"We're delighted The Ood are making a welcome return to Doctor Who," said lead writer and Executive Producer Russell T Davies.

"They were last seen falling into a black hole back in Series Two and we think it's only fair for the viewers to find out what the Ood have to say for themselves! Donna is certainly in for a shock."

The fourth series of Doctor Who goes into production this July and will hit UK screens in Spring 2008.

FinalBeyond

07-27-2007, 02:09 AM

Should be good to see the origins of the Ood, so long as it isn't a Genesis retread like ROTC kind of was.

Generic Wheelchair-bound scientist: Muahahaha! I shall prolong my race's lifespan by... Throwing Spaghetti into our primordial soup!

In other news, I can't stop listening to the album version of Song For Ten. Neil Hannon rocks.

Just Jeans

07-27-2007, 02:25 AM

I think by exploring their background, we'll be finding out how they became a slave race for humanity.

As much as I love Neil Hannon, I'll always prefer the Tim Phillips version. I'm so glad Murray Gold released the Tim Phillips version on the Advent Calender -- in CD quality with no sound effects -- this past Christmas. It was the best gift ever.

Just Jeans

07-28-2007, 03:07 AM

IDW to release new Doctor Who comic series starring the Tenth Doctor and Martha Jones. (http://www.f13-community.co.uk/board/showthread.php?p=12204#post12204) :eek:

I recently read an issue of Angel from IDW. I like how it looks/reads. This will be the first American-based Doctor Who comic publication in a loooong time. I'm so happy. :cry:

BlakeTyner

07-28-2007, 05:14 AM

Jeansie,

Based on your love of this show, I tried to watch it tonight when I got home from work. I saw there was an episode starting on SciFi, so I flipped over to it.

Ok, a couple of pigmen ride an elevator with a "Danger Will Robinson!! robot that is somehow the leader of something?

I tried, I really tried. But, alas, I think it's too different for me.

I also tried to watch the UK version of "The Office" because everybody kept raving about it, but couldn't see what all the fuss was about. I think I must be immune to British humor or something.

~Blake

Alex DeLarge

07-28-2007, 05:58 AM

Well, to be fair, Daleks in Manhattan is not a good episode to get yourself into. If you really want to, try "Rose" or maybe even "Smith and Jones." Daleks in Manhattan is an episode made for people who have seen the other Dalek stories. Watch the first episode they show up in the new series "Dalek" and you'll never think "Danger Will Robinson!" again.

Just Jeans

07-28-2007, 06:05 AM

You tried stepping into the show during Daleks in Manhattan? :eek: It's no wonder it didn't click for ya, Blakey. Daleks in Manhattan was easily the weakest story of the third series. It doesn't portray the Daleks at their best, either.

I don't begrudge anyone who can't get into the show -- there are shows I tried to like but can't -- but I would encourage you to try and watch the first couple of episodes from series 1 before you give up. Midway through series 3 really isn't a good entry point.

Episode six of series 1 -- Dalek -- is probably the concept of the Daleks at its best. I've never been a fan of the Daleks, they're not even in my top five favorite aliens from Doctor Who, but episode six of series 1 does them proper justice.

If you stick around for a while on Monday, I can show you the first episode of the series, if you like. I've got series 1 on DVD.

BlakeTyner

07-28-2007, 06:43 AM

Idunno, just didn't seem to be my thing. Kinda like Red Dwarf - I just never could get into it. But I wanted to let you know that I at least watched an episode...it's a little out of character for me to check something like that out.

Incidentally, I flipped through and saw that they were playing Halloween on one of the other channels. I just watched it (on VHS!) about 3 days ago, but I guess everyone's gearing up for the remake.

Alex DeLarge

07-28-2007, 07:49 AM

I liked DiM and EotD; they're just not for beginners. I LOVED its use of Daleks. As opposed the Cult of Skaro in Doomsday, who did nothing but look after Mickey/Rose for 25 minutes, open up a giant container full of expendable and useless Daleks and completely own the Cybermen to the point of embarrassment, the Cult of Skaro in DiM/EotD were scheming, brilliant scientists, who had an actual logical plan, only to be taken over by the one thing they didn't account for. The scene in DiM where Sec points out "If we're so goddamn 'special' and 'pure,' why the heck do we CONSTANTLY get owned by humans?" is one of my favorite moments.

And worst of the season? No way! I'd rather watch DiM/EotD than the fricking Lazarus Experiment...

Just Jeans

07-28-2007, 08:40 AM

The Lazarus Experiment is my favorite episode from series 3. Not my favorite story, mind, but my favorite episode.

The Dalek two-parter was too uneven. Sec was a neat idea, but he was wasted. The rest of the Cult? Wasted. The Pig Men? Wasted. The story just didn't gel for me. There were bits I liked, but over all it was the weakest story all season. It's the only story I could probably skip on a repeat of series 3, but as I said -- the Daleks have never been my favorite villain.

My favorite Doctor was Patrick Troughton, and none of his Dalek stories exist anymore, so when I got interested in Doctor Who, the Daleks were a non factor. My first exposure to them was the Jon Pertwee story Day of the Daleks, and it wasn't amazing.

I can understand why kids in the 60s found them frightening, and I think Dalek did an amazing job of making these tin pepper pots genuinely threatening, but with each consecutive appearance they've gotten less menacing (although I quite liked the subplot with Sec in the series 3 two-parter).

And I'm still waiting for some unfortunate sap to touch a Dalek and burst into flames. We've been told it can happen, but never shown.

Having said that, the WETA Daleks are to die for. :eek:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x124/f13thtribute/dalek400b.jpg

Apparently, the second piece in the collection is the Cybercontroller.

Alex DeLarge

07-28-2007, 06:14 PM

I thought Dalek, of course, was fantastic. When that first came on, my jaw dropped to the floor and I fell in love with the ol' Pepperpots. Amazing episode. Parting of the Ways is good, too, but I dunno, there was just something off. Part of it I think is the Dalek Emperor. He doesn't quite work me in the same way as Davros doesn't. When the Daleks have a leader, he instantly gets more focus, and the Daleks turn into expendable henchmen, which is a shame.

Doomsday... is not my favorite episode. My least favorite of the three finales by far. Everything dealing with the Doctor, Rose, Jackie, Mickey, Pete, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! I LOVED everything dealing with the humans (and one Time Lord). But I hated the stuff dealing with the Cybermen and Daleks. Since the topic is on the Daleks, I felt the Cult of Skaro were wasted. They did nothing but babysit Rose and Mickey for the first half, own Cybermen to the point of absolute humiliation, and unleash the Genesis Ark, another "billions" Dalek army that did nothing.

Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks restored my love for them that I lost with Doomsday. The Cult of Skaro actually lived up to their description! In Doomsday, the only thing they "imagined" to do was have names and sissy-fight the Cybermen. In this, they actually show their brilliance (the first time they've been geniuses since Dalek) and "imagine." I thought the Pig Men were a lot of fun, Tallulah was fantastic and explored some of my favorite themes. It's not one of my favorites, mind, but it's certainly not bad.

And Lazarus Experiment is your favorite? Huh. Personally, it was my least favorite out of Series 3 and right up there in the whole of the new series. Just didn't mesh with me...

Just Jeans

07-28-2007, 08:29 PM

Oddly enough, I was thrilled about the Dalek Emperor. Possibly because the concept was introduced in Patrick Troughton serial, and only exists in photographs and small clips anymore. Any returning concept/enemy from the Patrick Troughton era is okay by me. :bow: Personally, I loved the Emperor Dalek because I liked how warped and twisted he was. The God of All Daleks bit was brilliant.

If you don't like the Daleks having a leader, how did you feel about Sec in general, Alex? I loved him -- he talks good trash in Doomsday, and his subplot in the series 3 two-parter was my favorite part about the episode.

I thought the Cult of Skaro were wasted both times -- they did nothing in Doomsday, and they played second fiddle to the Sec subplot before getting bumped off in Evolution of the Daleks. The Pig Men caused more damage than the Daleks, that is until Caan caused genocide. My hope for the next Dalek story is that it's Caan alone. I think the Daleks work better on their own. They're more threatening that way.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think the Dalek two-parter is bad, I did like it, but for me it's still by far the weakest story in the third series. The most painful part of the entire story is watching Solomon's diatribe before he was ultimately (and very predictably) exterminated. I felt bad that Solomon got bumped, but that sequence just didn't work for me. Frank was my favorite character in that story. I liked Tallulah, but sometimes the accent was a bit too much.

As for The Lazarus Experiment -- Mark Gatiss is a brilliant performer. He plays Lazarus as such a nasty piece of work, but Gatiss portrayed moments of vulnerability that I appreciated. It was a well keyed performance. There isn't much of a story in the episode -- in fact, the episode's entire purpose is to facilitate the Master's laser screwdriver in the finale -- but it was just plain fun. It was like a mix of Alien, The Fly and The Thing.

It was just the kind of fluff I needed after the Dalek two-parter. It actually reminded me a bit of Eureka, only with a less wacky plot (not that anyone here would know what I mean -- no one else watches the show :shock:.)

Alex DeLarge

07-28-2007, 10:03 PM

I loved Sec and such, but he's really just another Dalek until he becomes human, then he becomes truly excellent. But he's not Dalek leader material anymore. Hence the extermination.

Oddly enough, Solomon's extermination is my one of my favorite bits in the whole two-parter. Predictable? Sure. But Daleks at their finest.

I think one of the reasons they didn't feel as wasted in DiM to me is that, I like my Daleks smart. I like them scheming. Even if they don't kill that many people, I prefer it when they're sneaky and have strategies over when they just want to exterminate the entire planet for the heck of it. My favorite bit in Dalek is when all the soldiers are shooting at the Skaro killer, and even though he's fully able to exterminate them one by one, he is SO ruthless and efficient that he hits the sprinklers and zaps the water, killing them all in two shots.

And I do think Caan will be solo, at least part of the time. There are rumors he might try and revive good ol' Blue Eye to restart the species and while I do think Davros might be resurrected next year, I doubt it's what RTD was referring to in DWC. I have a whole big theory on that (taken from a couple of OG guys I admit) and will elaborate if I need to.

sickboy

07-28-2007, 10:52 PM

And I do think I have a whole big theory on that (taken from a couple of OG guys I admit) and will elaborate if I need to.

You need to, don't tease me dammit :mad:
ADDED:
Oddly enough, I was thrilled about the Dalek Emperor. Possibly because the concept was introduced in Patrick Troughton serial, and only exists in photographs and small clips anymore. Any returning concept/enemy from the Patrick Troughton era is okay by me. :bow: Personally, I loved the Emperor Dalek because I liked how warped and twisted he was. The God of All Daleks bit was brilliant.

If you don't like the Daleks having a leader, how did you feel about Sec in general, Alex? I loved him -- he talks good trash in Doomsday, and his subplot in the series 3 two-parter was my favorite part about the episode.

I thought the Cult of Skaro were wasted both times -- they did nothing in Doomsday, and they played second fiddle to the Sec subplot before getting bumped off in Evolution of the Daleks. The Pig Men caused more damage than the Daleks, that is until Caan caused genocide. My hope for the next Dalek story is that it's Caan alone. I think the Daleks work better on their own. They're more threatening that way.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't think the Dalek two-parter is bad, I did like it, but for me it's still by far the weakest story in the third series. The most painful part of the entire story is watching Solomon's diatribe before he was ultimately (and very predictably) exterminated. I felt bad that Solomon got bumped, but that sequence just didn't work for me. Frank was my favorite character in that story. I liked Tallulah, but sometimes the accent was a bit too much.

I'm of the same sort of opinion about the Daleks... I've always maintained that a lot of Doctor Who is as popular as it is because of great acting (Tennant, Agyeman, Barrowman please stand up), brilliant effects and brilliant monsters. I just feel like sometimes the wrting is a bit.... lazy.
The writers seem to think the daleks' reputation will go before them and make them scary without the need to actually make them do anything.

Take Doomsday for example- you've got the cult of Skaaro and a butt-load of cybermen and between them they do sweet fuck-all across two episodes. It felt like they were just there cos there was no way they could write Rose out without some cataclysmic battle (am I the only Who fan who really thought Rose was crap? Much prefer Martha). When the whole "emergency temporal shift" thing happened I really wanted to jump up and scream "cop-out" at the TV. Come to think of it, the finales have so far been some of my least favourite episodes.

Although, I will state for the record that I really do enjoy the show, even the episodes I bitch about. Don't want anyone thinking I belong with the psychotic freaks over at OG :shifty:

FinalBeyond

07-28-2007, 11:42 PM

You're definitely not the only one who thought Rose was bad. I mean, I liked her in series 1, but when she got to her whiny worst in series 2... Ugh.

Martha should have been in it from the get go. She could fit into Rose's stories, but with added intelligence, wit, and awesomeness. I've got to write to Freema's fanmail address, because she really was, to use Ecclestone's term, fantastic.

And yeah, it's weird how some fans do nothing but complain. They hate the new series, but they hate how cheap the old series looked. They hate the audios, they hate the books...

Just Jeans

07-29-2007, 12:59 AM

Take Doomsday for example- you've got the cult of Skaaro and a butt-load of cybermen and between them they do sweet fuck-all across two episodes. It felt like they were just there cos there was no way they could write Rose out without some cataclysmic battle (am I the only Who fan who really thought Rose was crap? Much prefer Martha).

According to RTD in one of the podcast commentaries for series 2, the arc for series 2 was moved forward to series 3. Presumably, when the return of the Master and the Face of Boe's message were moved to series 3, they had to come up with a plot for the finale. They had the seeds sewn for Torchwood. They had their Cybermen. They had their Daleks. So hey -- why not slap them all together?

I think the finale for series 2 suffered from the plot for series 2 being lifted and moved to series 3.

Although to be fair, despite it's flaws, I absolutely adore Doomsday. The last 15 minutes is the most heart wrenching thing I've ever seen on television. That goes a long way in my book.

And I loved Rose. True, she got annoying in the first half of series 2, and her cliquish behavior with the Doctor did grate, but that's the price of character development (I had the same problem with Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- by the end of the fifth season, I couldn't stand her anymore. But I kept watching, because I liked the show.)

FinalBeyond

07-29-2007, 01:45 AM

Apart from the last bits with Rose, Doomsday, looking back, is horrendous. The Cybermen, built up so much in Army of Ghosts, which was fantastic, end up playing second fiddle to a bunch of Daleks.

And even the Daleks come off the worse for it, with an war of words more suited to a game of insult arm wrestling in Monkey Island.

Any drama in the episode didn't come from the events, but from the characters. It was fun to watch first time round, but with hindsight, it was a bit of a waste. I would have preferred the Cyber-Invasion to take precendence, with the Doc figuring out a way to escape the controller and reverse their grip on the world, only to end up with the rift problems as before.

Alex DeLarge

07-29-2007, 03:30 AM

Okay, *cracks knuckles*...

The TV movie is not well-received. Part of the problem is that for a 90 minute intro to a TV series, it jams in a lot of mythology. The opening just goes on about Skaro and Time Lords and squeaky voiced Daleks. The movie goes into regeneration right away, explaining it, Time Lord biology and goes into detail about the Eye of Harmony and time travel paradoxes. If I was a new viewer, I'd be stumped. RTD has a "master plan" all right, but it's not specifically villain-oriented. He understands while it IS a continuation, it is NOT Season 27-29, it is a reboot.

Season 1 starts more or less where the 1960s series did (I know, it doesn't exactly match up). It wipes the slate clean. There's the Time Lord named the Doctor, who travels through time and space. The major mythos figures are all gone. This gives RTD time to reintroduce all of them. Season 1 also reintroduces the big boys, the Daleks, the Doctor's most famous enemies and does them justice. He also reintroduces regeneration.

Season 2 introduces his second most famous race, the Cybermen. Given that they have no Time War to take part in, he ops for the parallel universe, in order to start from scratch and retell them. Season 3 introduces the man himself, the Master, the Doctor's greatest one-on-one foe. They both also introduce small bits and pieces here and there of the various mythology and aspects about both the Doctor, his planet and such, just like the old series.

Season 4 will be the reintroduction of the Time Lords. I'm 65% sure of this, with 35% being towards Davros. Season 4 will end with Gallifrey restored and the Doctor's people restored to the majesty and mystery they had before the later Tom Baker serials. That's why the Eternals were created, that's why Cartmel created his "master plan," that's why BOTH the book series and TV series killed 'em off. They become jokes.

If RTD really does leave with Season 4 and he does resurrect the Time Lords, he'll have left the DW universe rebuilding everything he knocked down in Rose. Which I think was the intention. These things can't be jammed in Episode 1. They came over like 10 years in the original series! In 4 years, RTD truly showcased the entire DW mythos, leaving the universe more or less as it was, but with some MAJOR differences too, mind, so that all these elements can be fully utilized and developed by future producers for another 40 years. RTD KNOWS the DW universe will survive beyond him and he chose to leave his imprint by reintroducing all the huge elements to the audiences again and for future producers.

But I'm probably wrong.:p

Just Jeans

07-29-2007, 11:11 AM

New bit of news (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a68002/who-actress-speaks-about-character-change.html) about Martha Jones.

'Who' actress speaks about character change

Freema Agyeman has revealed that Martha Jones will have a lover when she returns to Doctor Who.

The actress, 27, has explained that Martha will have given up on her hope of a romance with the Doctor after spending time away from him, so fans can expect a much different relationship between the two.

"Martha will be in a relationship by the time she returns to The Doctor so that part of her soul will be fulfilled. So I think she'll look at her relationship with the Time Lord with fresh eyes - older and much, much wiser," Freema is quoted by the Daily Star as saying.

"The last time they saw one another was after she'd just saved the world, so she went out on a high. When they meet up again, it'll be odd, so I imagine they'll be sizing each other up a bit!"

Martha will make a "triumphant return" to the Tardis in the middle of the next series. Catherine Tate has been confirmed as the new full-time companion.

Rumor is, Martha may be getting horizontal with Owen when she appears on Torchwood. :X

Scarecrow

07-29-2007, 12:44 PM

Alex DeLarge

07-29-2007, 06:21 PM

God I so HOPE Alex is wrong!

RTD leaving the series with absolutley nothing changed. Gallifrey and stuff back, the big dramatic new mytholgoy cast aside to placate fanboys. I hope we get to see the scorched burnign cinder of Gallifrey just so we know the planet is there, destroyed. Nothing bugs me so much as the terror some fans have at any sort of change and forward movement. Gallifrey should stay dead and gone otherwise it's just another temporary change to the status quo rather than a big dramatic development of the DW universe.

- Scarecrow

Oh, don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY agree! I hope I'm wrong too! Dead Time Lords work MUCH better than living ones, to be honest. I'm just saying THAT'S the impression I've gotten from RTD and his interviews and his DWC comments.

And Jeans, if THAT is true, I will stop watching Torchwood. Stop. In my tracks. Besides I read somewhere, similar to how Jack doesn't swear, RTD won't have Martha swear or boink on TW (Jack implies sex on DW) so it doesn't feel like a shift between the shows (when she's in London, she's fine, when she's in Cardiff, she cusses and such; consistency). I HOPE (at least) her boyfriend is Tom Milligan. The seeds are there in LotTL. Makes more logical sense than jumping on the Owen bandwagon along with every other girl who's ever been in Cardiff, ever...

Just Jeans

07-29-2007, 10:30 PM

Mythology cast aside to placate fan boys? If Alex is right, then it has likely been RTD's plan from the very beginning. How is following his plan tantamount to doing something for the sake of placating fan boys? :confused:

I'm among the five or six people who didn't hate the Time Lords post The Deadly Assassin, so I have no preference either way. But I think RTD did more to placate the hardcore fan boys when he killed off the Time Lords in the first place. Bringing them back would piss off the fan boys, not make them happy.

And I wouldn't stop watching Torchwood if Martha sleeps with Owen, mostly because I couldn't care less who she fucks. I'd heard the comments about Martha not swearing on Torchwood, but I suppose they'll probably keep her in her clothes too, particularly with her returning as a lead in Doctor Who. They probably can't stomach the idea of thousands of fan boy heads imploding.

FinalBeyond

07-29-2007, 10:38 PM

I'm wouldn't mind the pairing. After all, at least one of us Owens should have success with the ladies. :p

I kind of doubt there'll be the Gwen/Diane sex-filled relationship with them. More a sort of hinted one like with Tosh. Otherwise, the kiddies might get scarred for life. :p I hope Torchwood isn't too toned down, though, for the sake of a crossover. While the sex was overboard in the first series, I loved the added gore and horror aspect, like in Countrycide.

Scarecrow

07-30-2007, 10:42 AM

I doubt RTD would do ANYTHING to placate fans in any way, but the event certainly would. Since the TL's were announced gone there's been endless bitching about that, though it seems to have got less and less with each season, thankfully.

At any rate, that's a minor detail and not really at all the point I was making. WHatever, they were like, good or bad, bringing them back is essentially a step backwards and would once again afirm that the DW universe sadly can't change. BBC Books destruction of Gallifrey already undone, Big Finish Divergence Universe (The Doctor can NEVER come back!) undone, there are other examples but these are the big ones. I LOVED the demise because for the first time really since the 80's there was DEVELOPMENT in the DW universe. And yes, also get annoyed by comics ressurecting dead characters. :p

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

07-31-2007, 11:46 PM

I've seen less bitching and more dancing in the streets re: the death of the Time Lords. :shock:

As for "undoing" things that happened in the books... well, I don't rate the books compared to the series anyway, but I think the original death of Gallifrey was only undone in the books so that RTD could destroy it again without the books and the series conflicting too much.

Alex DeLarge

08-01-2007, 07:09 AM

Lance Parkin said he brought Gallifrey back in the Gallifrey Chronicles only because he assumed it'd still be there in the '05 series. If he had known it would have been destroyed too (especially in such a vague manner), he would have kept it gone.

sickboy

08-01-2007, 09:29 PM

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/angels+tardis

Figured youd enjoy these...

Just Jeans

08-01-2007, 09:52 PM

Those are neat. :D I like the one's being sold over on the Weeping Angel's MySpace page better, though.

Killa Pimp

08-02-2007, 12:23 AM

Interesting.

http://www.syfyportal.com/news423983.html

I do not think its true though, but who knows.

Just Jeans

08-02-2007, 12:41 AM

FinalBeyond

08-02-2007, 03:45 PM

If his return didn't mean the return of Rose as well, I'd cheer heartily. While Rose's story was nicely finished, Mickey didn't get nearly as much of a journey as he deserved. 3 stories, and he was gone.

By the end, I preferred Mickey to Rose. While his acting was very wooden in Rose (that is, until it became plastic. :p) he improved a whole lot over the series. The moment when he was revealed in AoG rocked.

Wish I'd got Clarke's autograph the day before Rose first aired, when he was at Collectormania. :p My cousin saw him in a supermarket recently, and got an autograph. Wasn't able to get one for me, grumble grumble...

Killa Pimp

08-03-2007, 12:19 AM

The rumors keep on coming.

http://syfyportal.com/news423988.html

Just Jeans

08-03-2007, 12:27 AM

It's believed that Tennant will be acting in a stage production of Hamlet throughout next summer, so the rumors aren't unfounded.

Frankly, I'll be glad if they confirm the 11th Doctor soon. It might shut up the doom mongers who won't stop going on about the show being "rested" after the conclusion of the fourth series.

I never expected Tennant to stay for more than three series anyway. That's a good long run in modern TV terms, especially for a guy who is as in-demand as Tennant is at the moment.

The Sun has a rather hit-or-miss track record, but if they're right about James Nesbitt taking over form Tennant, I'll be pleased. I've not seen him in anything recently, but I'm about to see Jekyll -- it starts on BBC America very soon -- and I've heard good things.

Here's an interesting coincidence -- James Nesbitt worked with Steven Moffat on Jekyll. Moffat is rumored to be taking over from RTD. Now Nesbitt is rumored to be taking over from Tennant. :thinking:

Scarecrow

08-03-2007, 10:03 AM

The Sun can go to hell. :p

Ah, I just wanted to share that with everyone.

*grumble*firedmyass*grumble*

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

08-04-2007, 02:12 AM

Unfortunately, Steven Moffat has squashed the James Nesbitt rumor:

The James Nesbitt story is a total fabrication. Made up. A fantasy. Just a guy sitting at a desk and just inventing stuff.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm getting embarrassed for the deeply wonderful Jimmy Nesbitt. So tell everyone please, cos it's getting very silly.

Also, Character Options are about to start releasing a line of toys based on the classic series. :shock: I'll be able to get the Second Doctor and I can get my friend Adam a Sixth Doctor.

Character Options is to release a range of classic-era figures.

To be launched next spring, in association with BBC Worldwide, the five-inch figures will initially feature detailed replicas of classic Doctors, plus a number of monsters.

Jon Diver, the joint managing director of Character Group, said: "The resounding success of the Doctor Who TV series is made up of both new and existing Doctor Who fans.

"We have reacted to public demand and will be producing a range which greatly enhances the depth and quality of our existing line.

"The classic license will broaden the collectability and enhance the position of the brand."

Iconic Replicas is releasing a TARDIS, TARDIS console and Tom Baker-era sonic screwdriver replicas:

The Iconic Replicas division of Product Enterprise has been granted licences for a statue range and replica props from the classic Doctor Who era.

It says the 1:6 scale polyresin figures will include the Fourth Doctor, the Sontaran Linx, Daleks, Cybermen and Zygons.

Sculpted by Andrew Teal and Sarah Aplin, they will be limited editions.

The first wave of the replica props - also to be limited editions - will include a 1:6 scale model of the Tardis from An Unearthly Child, a similar scale replica of the console from the same episode and the sonic screwdriver from the Tom Baker era.

Release dates have still to be announced.

FinalBeyond

08-04-2007, 04:55 PM

I still use my old DAPOL Tardis set. Their figures were awful quality in terms of construction (just about every thumb has broken off because they were so brittle) but the TARDIS was amazing.

Alex DeLarge

08-04-2007, 07:44 PM

They're grasping at straws, turning Clarke's comments into something more sensational than they really are. I think it's more likely that Noel is writing an episode of Doctor Who this year (I don't think all of th writers have been announced yet, but I might be wrong) but I wouldn't complain if he did make an appearance in series 4. I loved Mickey.

They have actually. RTD does four episodes, Helen Raynor and Steven Moffat both have two, with Gareth Roberts, Stephen Greenhorn, Tom MacRae, James Moran and Keith Temple all having oners. That's 13 (not counting Voyage of the Damned by RTD). A Season 5er might be in the works though, with whoever might be taking over (be it RTD, Steven Moffat, Joss Whedon or Eva Unit-01 herself)...

Just Jeans

08-04-2007, 10:33 PM

I got Doctor Who: The Stealer of Dreams from the Amazon.com market place in today, but I'm not happy. The version I ordered was meant to be hardback. The one they sent me is this slender little paperback. I didn't even know they'd released the ruddy things in paperback. Now the only book I don't have in the series in hardback is The Stealer of Dreams. It wouldn't be so bad, but the Marketplace Seller had the goddamn thing listed as hardback. :mad:

I still use my old DAPOL Tardis set ... the TARDIS was amazing.

I hated the DAPOL TARDIS. I was never able to order one of their malfunctioning consoles -- they only had one or two in stock by the time I noticed them -- and the police box itself cost me over $40.00, and the thing wouldn't stay together. Letting it unfold into a console room set was a good idea, but it made the box flimsy.

sickboy

08-07-2007, 06:00 PM

Look like the Sun is reporting that (and this is a major spoiler if true) Sir Ben Kingsley is in talks to play Davros

Now obviously the Sun is the shittiest (and I use this term lightly) 'newspaper' on the planet, but it could be interesting if true...

Just Jeans

08-08-2007, 06:09 AM

Well, Davros would be the obvious choice for series 4 Big Bad, particularly if RTD is clearing out at it's end. RTD has named dropped Genesis of the Daleks as being the story that started the Time War, which means Davors was involved. I've been predicting the return of Davros for a while now, and I think series 4 is the right time to use him. RTD can use a confrontation with Davros to perhaps wrap up the Time War arc.

I wonder if we might get some Time War flashbacks? That would be sweet.

Here's what SyFy Portal (http://www.syfyportal.com/news424012.html) has to say:

If you're going to bring in one of the bigger villains in "Doctor Who," why not bring in the right actor to portray him?

Believe The Sun or don't believe them. Either way, however, the British newspaper is reporting that producers are trying to bring in Ben Kingsley as the villain Davros, creator of the Daleks despite earlier reports that Season 4 would be Dalek-free.

"Ben's agent has been in talks for a while now, and he's very keen to play the part of Davros," a source told The Sun. "A deal will be signed any day now."

Davros made his first appearance on "Doctor Who" in 1975. He was an insane half-man, half-machine who ended up being credited with creating the floating pepper shakers known as Daleks. The character has been played by Michael Wisher, David Gooderson and Terry Molloy. It was last seen in 1988's "Remembrance of the Daleks."

Kingsley is, of course, one of Britain's most prolific actors. He has appeared in a number of major films including "Schindler's List" and "Gandhi."

None of this has been confirmed by BBC, so it should be treated as any rumor would.

"Doctor Who" returns to BBC One in early 2008, with its annual Christmas special scheduled for Dec. 25. The third season is currently airing on SciFi Channel Friday nights in the United States.

I'd say this is a more likely story than James Nesbitt as the Doctor, but if it is true, I think it'd be safe to say that this is the soonest we've ever had the Big Bad blown by a "newspaper" outlet.

Just Jeans

08-10-2007, 03:03 AM

Great big bunch of info about series 4... and a picture. :D

Official BBC Press Release (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2007/08/10/47771.shtml)
Publicity Image (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctor_donna/1024/21.jpg)

The Doctor and Donna book a date with Agatha Christie.

Filming is underway for Series Four of Doctor Who, with Catherine Tate reprising her role as Donna, the runaway bride featured in last year's Christmas Special.

The start of the new series will see Donna tracking down the Time Lord during an alien emergency in modern-day London. The couple are destined to experience a series of wonderful adventures throughout the new series including meeting one of Doctor Who's most popular aliens, The Ood in a brand new episode, Planet of The Ood.

Catherine Tate said: "I am delighted to be returning to Doctor Who. I had a blast last Christmas and look forward to travelling again through time and space with that nice man from Gallifrey."

Donna and The Doctor will also be travelling through time for an encounter with the legendary murder mystery novelist, Agatha Christie, played by Jekyll star Fenella Woolgar. Fenella will be joined by The Good Life actress Felicity Kendal, who will star as Lady Clemency Eddison.

"What a brilliant idea that Agatha Christie and Doctor Who should meet!," noted Matthew Prichard, Agatha Christie's grandson. "Two characters whose contribution to British entertainment is absolutely unrivalled. As far as I know my grandmother, Agatha Christie, never saw Doctor Who, but I am sure she would have been intrigued, excited and above all flattered by all this attention in 2007."

Doctor Who's executive producer and head writer, Russell T Davies comments: "Visiting Agatha Christie has been on my wish-list for ages now, and for the Doctor, it's a real meeting of minds! Viewers can expect many more ambitious storylines and a whole host of guest stars in 2008."

Blackadder and Notting Hill Actor Tim McInnerny will also guest star later in the series.

Freema Agyeman who has played Martha Jones, The Doctor's companion throughout the critically acclaimed third series will return to the show to join The Doctor and Donna mid series.

So it looks like we know basically how the Doctor and Donna will hook back up.

Alex DeLarge

08-10-2007, 08:18 PM

I guessed we'd be meeting Agatha Christie since I saw LotTL. In the Shakespeare commentary, Julie Gardner said the plot of Gareth Roberts' ep would be revealed in LotTL and I guessed (or at least hoped) it'd be her. Lots at OG thought the same. So now, yay! We get it...

Scarecrow

08-11-2007, 08:37 AM

The question is, can they resist naming the episode "Whodunnit?". :p

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

08-11-2007, 09:56 AM

I hope not (as in I hope they can't resist). It'd be the best title since 42...

Just Jeans

08-11-2007, 10:27 AM

They missed a trick when they didn't call one of the episodes from the Dalek two-parter Sec's in the City. I expect they'll probably miss a trick this time, too. :lol:

Just Jeans

08-16-2007, 07:03 PM

The region 1 box at for series three -- which has a tentative release of November 6th here in the States -- has been revealed:

http://www.gallifreyone.com/images/news/DoctorWho_S3_large.jpg

Alex DeLarge

08-16-2007, 09:20 PM

*SNAPS* Damnit! I love Freema and all that but I prefer the Region 2 with Simm on the cover.

About the titles, I would have preferred, "The Pig and the Showgirl," it's catchy, reminds me of titles like the Girl in the Fireplace and is referenced in the episode. For the Agatha Christie episode, I'd also prefer the title, "The Man in the Brown Suit." It's the name of an Agatha Christie book, one featuring a mysterious detective in a brown suit who only identifies himself as a doctor and is more action-based (according to an OGer).

Just Jeans

08-17-2007, 04:34 PM

I've not seen the DVD art for the region 2 set. I've seen all the art for the vanilla discs, but not the box set.

I've read up on the Christie book in question, and I don't see anything that indicates it could be inspired by an encounter with the Doctor (and what if the Doctor is wearing his blue suit during the adventure?) Still, I wouldn't be surprised if they spin it that way. Every time the Doctor meets an author, they're destined to write something based on the encounter.

Scarecrow

08-17-2007, 04:50 PM

I reckon they'll base it on the ten days that Agatha Chrisie went missing for and claims to have no memory of... but we'll see!

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

08-17-2007, 05:04 PM

That's a theory I've read on OG -- and I also think it'll probably occur during that time period -- but some folks on OG are going on about how it would be in bad taste, as Christie was (apparently) going through an extremely bad time in her life when she vanished.

Shoesalesman

08-18-2007, 05:12 AM

Wow, I've been away from this thread for a while. Just got back into my Doctor Who routine AND just finished The Lazarus Experiment. What I found most enjoyable in this episode was the reference back to humans accepting their fate and choosing the quality of their lives.

Sure, you could name lots of times this had been done on the show, spanning back through the decades, but for some reason it seemed more prevalent and necessary here. Also the Doctor's general demeanor toward his strength and knowledge never gets talked up, never becomes the focus, because there's a sense of shame (?) or perhaps bitterness in being a Time Lord coming from the good Doctor. David Tennant does a great job of the Doctor's constant yearning for an ending, a closure.

Maybe it's the bag of carrots I'm munching on talking or the fact I've been away from the show for a few weeks, but I felt almost MOVED by this episode with the lesson relayed. :(

I love this show. :shy:

Just Jeans

08-19-2007, 02:08 AM

See, Alex? I told you The Lazarus Experiment was good. :shy:

I think the Doctor's feelings toward a long life have more than a little to do with the death of the Time Lords. Him being the only one left means there's no one else in the universe to keep him company, and the people he does pick up who might be able to make him happy will eventually die. I could totally see that making him yearn for an ending (thus his behavior in Central Park during Evolution of the Daleks.)
ADDED:
The 2008 Doctor Who Annual has been recalled, and all recalled copies are to be destroyed. :eek:

Booksellers across the globe are currently pulling copies of the Offical Doctor Who Annual 2008, following a recall. There is no information as to why this title has been recalled, or if there will be a replacement issue. Retail chain W.H. Smiths are putting it to a "printing mistake", and that the copies must be destroyed once pulled. There has been no official statement from the BBC regarding this issue.

I wonder what the issue is? Is there, like, vulgarity in the book?

Alex DeLarge

08-19-2007, 03:29 AM

Copies will go for tons and tons on eBay. Whoever owns one is a lucky man (or woman).

Oh and the Lazarus Experiment DOES get better with each viewing, but it's still my least favorite of S3. I also am looking forward to Greenhorn's entry next year as it not only is apparently brilliant, but completely different to TLE and shows his range. So we shall see...

Just Jeans

08-20-2007, 06:19 AM

Now here's a crazy possible spoiler, right from the mouth of Sylvester McCoy.

Seventh Doctor Actor Sylvester McCoy released a possible spoiler at the Day With A Doctor event in Auckland, New Zealand. McCoy sited the source of the information as Peter Jackson. There has been no Official Announcement of this from the BBC.

According to McCoy, Peter Davison is due to return for Series 4 in a Multi-Doctor episode.

If that's true, I'll bust with glee. I love Peter Davison, and would love to see him back in the show. McCoy isn't prone to making these kinds of comments in regards to the new series, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

Also, there are yet further rumblings about the return of The Rani.

Iconic British actress Joan Collins has reportedly signed up to play a time-travelling villain in the forthcoming season of Doctor Who.

The News of the World claims that 74-year-old Collins, best known for her role as Alexis Carrington Colby in the soap Dynasty, has already signed up for the role of The Doctor's arch nemesis The Rani, a scheming Gallifreyan scientist who appeared twice in the classic series.

The tabloid quotes an insider in the show as saying: "The Doctor Who team are delighted they've managed to sign Joan. It's a real coup. [She's] perfect for the role... like Alexis Colby with a sonic screwdriver."

The Rani was originally portrayed by Kate O'Mara in 1985's 'The Mark of the Rani' opposite Colin McCoy and in Sylvester McCoy's debut story 'Time and the Rani' in 1987. O'Mara, who reprised the role in a 1993 Children In Need special, also played Collins' younger sister Cassandra in Dynasty.

Shoesalesman

08-21-2007, 01:54 AM

Just finished 'Human Nature'.

What a great episode. This season, thus far, is the best since they started making Doctor Who again. :cool:

Granted... there are only three seasons, but you know what I mean.

Just Jeans

08-21-2007, 08:47 AM

Apparently, the return of the 5th Doctor is slated to be in this year's Children In Need special:

Doctor Who legend Peter Davison is to step back into the Tardis – and come face to face with the current Doctor.

Peter, 56, who played the Timelord in the 1980s, will pull on his famous trenchcoat once again for a Children In Need special.

Bosses are tight-lipped about the storyline, written by Who scribe Stephen Moffat.

But an insider revealed: “The Doctor is forever travelling though time so there’s no reason why he couldn't catch up with a former incarnation.

“Peter was top of the writer’s list to make a comeback."

This year’s Children In Need charity telethon takes place on BBC1 on Friday, November 16.

Dezibluenose

08-21-2007, 06:52 PM

Apparently, the return of the 5th Doctor is slated to be in this year's Children In Need special:

I read this today at work and was dying to come on here and post it.

I have my doubts about about The Sun's story but the fact McCoy mentioned a similar line makes me believe it's real. Or maybe Im just dreaming too much.

Hopefully it's a long episode and not some 5 minute thing like 2 years ago's Children in Need special

The Dark Vampire

08-21-2007, 06:59 PM

I have mixed feelings about this news while I did and do want a multiple Doctor story I thought there was a slim chance that Voyage Of The Dammed would feature more than 1 Doctor (as we know at least 2 other Doctors have been on board the Titanic in the past

So this drastically lessens the chances of that happening

FinalBeyond

08-21-2007, 07:02 PM

I suppose it makes sense to bring back Davison if they do any. Neither of the Bakers look much like they did back in the day. Although to be honest, I'd prefer McCoy.

Of course, any Doctor returning would result in me letting forth a squee of joy.

The Dark Vampire

08-21-2007, 07:08 PM

Just Jeans

08-21-2007, 08:55 PM

I think Children in Need is the perfect chance to cross over Doctor's without interrupting the flow of the main series. And I reckon Children in Need will last about as long this year as it did two years ago -- eight and a half minutes -- but I wouldn't mind if it runs closer to 15.

What I'm thinking is that the 5th Doctor will be a mental projection from the 10th Doctor's mind, only he'll be aged for some technobabble reason.

FinalBeyond

08-21-2007, 11:15 PM

To be fair Davidson as aged a lot to my Mum watches Doctors (the drama about a GP's office) and he has aged a lot he looks about twice as old which is fair as I would bet he is about twice as old as he was when he left

True, but I saw him recently at Tenth Planet when he, Nicola Bryant and Colin Baker were signing DVDs, and when you look at Tom, Colin, or even Sylvester, he does look closer to his old self than them.

Of course, the natural way to bypass all of this would be to bring back Paul McGann. :p

The Dark Vampire

08-21-2007, 11:26 PM

I think they should try to get Christopher Eccleston to do a multiple Doctor story in the next year or so before he shows any signs of aging at all same goes for Tennent if he leaves or if Tennent leaves to a 3 Doctor story I think something like that would make a great Christmas special

Just Jeans

08-22-2007, 01:55 AM

I doubt whether Christopher Eccleston will ever come back. He's currently living in America, trying to break into the stage industry and, after he's done with The Dark is Rising, I would think he'd probably want to focus on that. Still, I'd like to see him back.

FinalBeyond

08-22-2007, 06:39 PM

Woo, Character Options have announced a range of Classic Who figures.

In July 2007, Character Options announced the range would be expanded from January 2008 with a line of Classic Series action figures. These are:

* 4th Doctor in red velvet coat and with changeable heads one normal and one with hat circa: 1974 Revenge of the Cybermen .
* 5th Doctor with shorter hair circa: 1984 Resurrection of the Daleks .
* 6th Doctor with patchwork frock coat and shorter hair circa: 1985 Attack of the Cybermen.
* Broton the Zygon with Skarassen control device from Terror of the Zygons .
* Sea Devil with string vest from The Sea Devils .
* Voc Robots twin pack SV-7 (Super Voc) and D-84 (Dum Class) from Robots of Death .
* Magnus Greel and Mr Sin twin pack from The Talons of Weng Chiang .

Finally I can replace the brittle old Dapol ones! :D

Just Jeans

08-23-2007, 04:21 AM

I posted about the Classic Series figures a couple of weeks ago. :shifty: No one listens to me 'round here. :|

I'm disappointed that the 2nd Doctor doesn't appear to be a part of the line. The original announcement said they would be releasing all of the classic Doctors.

Scarecrow

08-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Give them a chance!

This is just the first batch, be ridiculous to release every Doctor upfront.

Have to leave people wanting more.

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

08-24-2007, 07:19 PM

The first batch should have incorporated the first three Doctors. Why they went for the 4th, 5th and 6th first is beyond me. :confused: I wonder if they'll even bother with an 8th Doctor.

And I better be getting a Brigadier Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart. :bow:

FinalBeyond

08-24-2007, 10:19 PM

If they're having obscure characters like Magnus Greel, it's almost certain we'll get a Brig. :p

I think 4-6 make good choices for the first Doctors. Tom Baker is, to most people, the icon of the show. Colin needs a figure, just for that coat. And Peter, well, the rumours are flying. :p

Just Jeans

08-24-2007, 10:50 PM

Bah. I'm just grumpy. The DAPOL 2nd Doctor was hideous. I was hoping for a Character Options version ASAP.

I wouldn't say Magnus Greel is obscure -- he's the main villain in one of the most popular 4th Doctor serials from the Hinchcliffe era. The target audience for these classic series figures are probably squeeing with glee.

FinalBeyond

08-25-2007, 01:54 AM

Dapol did a Second Doctor? I never even saw that. Only had the 3rd, 4th and 7th. Repainted a duplicate 7 with cream colours to be my 5th Doc. :p

Still, by obscure, I meant in comparison to the Brig. Who doesn't know about him that knows about Greel?

Just Jeans

08-25-2007, 02:56 AM

Dapol did a Second Doctor? I never even saw that. Only had the 3rd, 4th and 7th. Repainted a duplicate 7 with cream colours to be my 5th Doc. :p

DAPOL released all seven of the Doctors. Some of them got pretty hard to find there for a while, but in 1996 I almost purchased a 2nd Doctor figure. The only reason I didn't was because it was crap.

Still, by obscure, I meant in comparison to the Brig. Who doesn't know about him that knows about Greel?

Americans (re: people who think the 4th Doctor is the only Doctor)? Anyone who has purchased The Talons of Weng-Chiang on DVD, but not any of the 2nd, 3rd or early 4th Doctor DVDs?

You'd be surprised. :X
ADDED:
Here's the DAPOL TARDIS opened up, with the discontinued (and extremely hard to find) console. That thing was discontinued almost as soon as it released.

http://www.skaro.org/dapol.jpg

DAPOL Second Doctor:
http://www.galaxy4.co.uk/images/productthumbs/troughton%20sml.jpg

FinalBeyond

08-25-2007, 04:00 PM

Hmm, not the whole thing there. There was also a floor made for it. I got one free when I visited the DAPOL factory, because it had some fire damage on the bottom. :p

Still, I can see why the console wasn't continued. While it makes a nice prop, the mechanism for the time rotor ate up batteries, and stunk anyway. It's good that a company who can actually make quality products have the license.

Just Jeans

08-25-2007, 10:04 PM

I talked to a DAPOL representative on the phone about the console, back in the late 1990s. According to him, the console was discontinued because most of them were defective. A lot of them wouldn't work at all. They had a few left in stock. They wanted $40.00 USD for the ones that didn't work, and $80.00 USD for the ones that did. I ended up taking a pass on that.
ADDED:
Hmm... interesting. The BBC is gearing up to release The Davros Box Set (http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3451843/-/Product.html?searchstring=davros&searchsource=0), which will include the as-yet unreleased (on DVD) Destiny of the Daleks.

So last year we get the Master Box Set, and then we see the Master in the series 3 finale. This year, we get a Davros Box Set... I'll put my money on Davros returning in series 4, then. Of course, my money was already on Davros returning, but this just helps make my stance on the matter more comfy. :D

Shoesalesman

08-26-2007, 09:26 AM

I attempted to make a dalek from Lego today with the kids, but it didn't look right. So I made a TARDIS... you can't really fuck up a blue rectangular box. ;)

Just Jeans

08-29-2007, 10:44 AM

Outpost Gallifrey is finally shutting down permanently. The forum will continue on, and the news will continue to be posted on a blog run by the people who currently run the news section (with Shaun Lyon having input on it all), but Mr. Lyons has grown tired of fandom, and wants to focus on other things in his life.

Full story is up on the Outpost Gallifrey homepage (http://www.gallifreyone.com/).

FinalBeyond

08-29-2007, 05:05 PM

It still confuses me a bit. Surely having everything on one site, even if it was renamed and moved to a different domain, would work better than splitting it up...

Still, I got the New Beginnings boxset today, and just finished watching Keeper of Traken. What with Ainley's transition to The Master, I almost forgot quite how good he was as Tremas. I almost wanted him to go along with the Doctor at the end, even though I knew his eventual fate. Mind you, Sarah Sutton is easier on the eyes. I also remembered how when I was a kid, I thought my Melkur figure was distorted, because it wasn't symmetrical. Cor, I was stupid when I was young... :p

EDIT: And I've finished Logopolis. Fantastic, fantastic episode. The best possible end to Baker's reign. I hope Tennant can get a finale like that.

Just Jeans

08-30-2007, 04:52 PM

It still confuses me a bit. Surely having everything on one site, even if it was renamed and moved to a different domain, would work better than splitting it up...

Shaun is apparently keeping the gallifreyone.com design for the yearly convention. The news and the forum will be moving, I guess. I don't understand why Shaun doesn't just appoint a new editor/website maintainer to look after it, but for whatever reason he just doesn't want to be involved anymore.

I'm just glad the news service isn't drying up. When it was gone for a while last year, I felt lost.
ADDED:
I've not seen The Keeper of Traken or Castrovala as yet, but Logopolis signifies the only thing my biological father even gave me (he picked it up on VHS for me when I was 15 or 16, whilst I was visiting him in Dallas). It's my favorite story from the classic series.
ADDED:
Okay, so now the cat is out of the bag -- it's been confirmed that David Tennant is booked solid through the later half of 2008. Whether this means there will be no series 5 or that we'll have an 11th Doctor in 2009 remains to be seen.

From Outpost Gallifrey (http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php#newsitemEEllulFAkVUypiuZOm):

The Royal Shakespeare Company have announced their 2008 line-up, which features David Tennant in two roles.

July 24th thru November 15th 2008 sees Tennant in Hamlet alongside Patrick Stewart playing Claudius. Fans of the new series will also be excited to note that from October 2nd thru November 15th 2008 Tennant will be playing Berowne in Love's Labour's Lost. Love's Labour's Lost was a major plot point in Series 3 episode, The Shakespeare Code.

With Tennant appearing in two stage productions between 24th July and 15th November, there's no way he'll be working full-time on Doctor Who as well.

The Dark Vampire

08-30-2007, 05:27 PM

If I had to take a guess I'd say we'll be getting the 11th Doctor it's way to popular at the moment not to carry on if they really want Tennant then series 5 just may be delayed but I doubt they'll go that way.

I just read that David Bowie may be in Series 4 of Doctor Who but he's denying it but I'll spoiler tag the storyline just in case as it's not unusual for guest stars and upcoming storylines to be declined when they are in fact real

David Bowie has denied reports he is to star in BBC show Doctor Who, rubbishing the claims as "absolute tish and tosh".

Tabloid newspaper The Sun reported that the 60-year-old singer was set to play an evil alien abductor in a two-part special planned for next year.

A statement on Bowie's website says the show's producers previously approached him about a cameo role in the series in the Eighties, but he declined.

Bowie played an alien in the 1976 film, The Man Who Fell to Earth.

According to the newspaper, Bowie had agreed to play an alien who kidnaps crime author Agatha Christie - who in real life mysteriously disappeared for 11 days in 1926.

A spokeswoman for the BBC One show also denied the story.

Last year Bowie voiced a character for cult children's TV series SpongeBob SquarePants and appeared as himself in Ricky Gervais's comedy series, Extras.

Credit>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6970381.stm

Scarecrow

08-30-2007, 07:41 PM

"The Sun reported..."

Move along people, nothing to see. :p

- Scarecrow

The Dark Vampire

08-30-2007, 08:25 PM

"The Sun reported..."

Move along people, nothing to see. :p

- Scarecrow

To be fair they have got more right they they have got wrong over the last few years.

Alex DeLarge

08-30-2007, 09:40 PM

To be fair they have got more right they they have got wrong over the last few years.

No way. Sure they get SOME stuff right, but since they report on every single rumor ever thought by anyone who's ever seen Doctor Who ever, they're bound to get some of them right.

"Whether this means there will be no series 5 or that we'll have an 11th Doctor in 2009 remains to be seen."

OR... DW might "go on a break" for a year or so. And not in the same sense as it did post-Survival, I mean a break so that RTD and Tennant can do one or so other projects and then go back to DW after some slowing down. It's not entirely impossible. I mean, albeit for completely different reasons, but Torchwood isn't coming back in 2007. Sure, the other two are more likely. Well, 11th Doctor; the BBC would be absolutely insane to seriously cancel Series 5; it's one of, if not their number one, biggest cash-cow; why would they cancel it?! Yeah, I know Sci-Fi did the same thing with Tremors, but this is a bit different of a situation. This is a phenomneon.

Just Jeans

08-30-2007, 10:17 PM

I'm not going to bite Ian Levine's bait. Not yet. I don't think the BBC would put the series on a break just to keep Tennant and RTD involved, but if they do I'm going to be very disappointed. Doctor Who works best as a series. Reducing it to specials (as Ian Levine has been harping on about) just doesn't interest me. If they delay series 5 until the Fall of 2009, that I can handle. But not specials.
ADDED:
Well, 11th Doctor; the BBC would be absolutely insane to seriously cancel Series 5; it's one of, if not their number one, biggest cash-cow; why would they cancel it?!

Because the television landscape is a funny place. It's a place where Firefly never got a chance and Deadwood got canceled despite being HBO's second most watched show and, et cetera. Et cetera.

Reducing the show to a seasonal special would be just as good as canceling it as far as I'm concerned. I'll still watch those specials, mind, but Doctor Who shouldn't be held back simply because the BBC are timid about going forward without their King-of-Kings (Russell T Davies) and his chosen son (David Tennant). The show should be bigger than both of them, and as much as I like them and appreciate their work, ultimately they should be expendable.

Alex DeLarge

08-31-2007, 12:44 AM

By a break, I mean a year or two. Then back with another 13 ep season plus special. That's MY gut feeling. I wouldn't mind that all. I got all the patience in the world...

Just Jeans

08-31-2007, 01:31 AM

I got all the patience in the world...

I don't.

But I somehow doubt that'll happen anyway. It would kill the show's forward momentum. The children in the audience would move and find another show to embrace, Doctor Who would fall out of style.

When the show finally sees the end of production, I don't expect it back for another 10-15 years.

I think the most likely thing will be a new 11th Doctor at the end of series 4, but then I'm probably wrong. I knew a continuous series wouldn't happen forever, but I was hoping for more than four years. :misery:

FinalBeyond

08-31-2007, 01:38 AM

I don't think Who'll be falling off our screens any time soon.

If it is, I suppose at least it won't be like the last break we had, as even without the strong possibility that it'll be back far sooner, considering the ratings and money it gets for the Beeb, we'll still have the plethora of spinoffs they've been creating. Torchwood and Sarah Jane is better than no TV Whoniverse at all.

Scarecrow

08-31-2007, 08:21 AM

I think it's pretty insane to imagine the BBC would stop making their number one non-soap show, which also beats pretty much eveyr other channel as well AND brings in huge ammounts form merchandising. Especially considering the situation with the license fee once again beign questioned. It's not going anywhere.

- Scarecrow

Shoesalesman

09-02-2007, 09:25 PM

Just watched 'Blink' from Season 3. I have a new favorite episode! :D

Steven Moffat wrote a great story, backed with superb direction. I didn't hurt that Carey Mulligan is a fox! ;)

Just Jeans

09-02-2007, 11:53 PM

Steven Moffat is among the best. He actually just won his second Hugo Award a few days ago, this time for The Girl in the Fireplace. Last year, he won a Hugo for The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. I wonder if he'll win for a third year in a row with Blink? Although I think Paul Cornell has a fair shot at winning the Hugo for Human Nature/The Family of Blood.

Moffat is writing a two-parter for series 4. I'm so glad they've kept him around since the series came back. He's really brill.

FinalBeyond

09-03-2007, 12:21 AM

Steven Moffat rocks not only for his excellent storytelling, but also his fannishness. The quote in my signature made him even cooler in my book.

Scarecrow

09-03-2007, 08:18 AM

I think Human Nature is defeinitly Doctor Who's best bet for a Hugo next year, even if Blink does get a nomination as well. I guess we'll see what other shows put out.

- Scarecrow

sickboy

09-03-2007, 05:17 PM

Alex DeLarge

09-03-2007, 05:55 PM

By a break, I mean a year or two. Then back with another 13 ep season plus special. That's MY gut feeling. I wouldn't mind that all. I got all the patience in the world...

I do love it when I'm right. :D We get that PLUS 3 specials. 2009 may suck, but 2010 will rock indeed...

The Dark Vampire

09-03-2007, 06:00 PM

Alex DeLarge

09-03-2007, 06:02 PM

Can't believe I got there before Jeans:

Doctor Who gets 1 year hiatus between series 4 and 5, plus three TV movies to fill the time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6976178.stm

This is horrific news. how can they think this is "good for the fans" ???

Simple. Tennant and RTD are big fans themselves. They both love Who and the Whoniverse and all the characters, but work on Doctor Who is very, very hard. There's little else to do. In Series 2, RTD was sick for one week and it threw the schedule off for months. DW is something they both care about but it's a long, grueling job. Everyone needs a little break. Sure, they could give the series away to a new head writer/11th Doctor, but RTD and Tennant love this show and want to work on it more than anything. Both of them are geniuses and have been creating golden ages for Doctor Who and if taking a break ensures they stay on Who just a little bit longer, I don't mind at all...

The Dark Vampire

09-03-2007, 06:11 PM

Also depending on what they do this could prolong the series life by a few years as after a brake Tennant maybe happy to be The Doctor for quite a few more years where as if we got the 11Th Doctor they may of wanted out after 1 or 2 years (that said I think after Chris whoever plays The Doc should sign a contract which guarantees at least 2 years as The Doc)

FinalBeyond

09-03-2007, 06:17 PM

In a way, I'm glad that Series 5 is confirmed, and it shows the BBC's dedication to the series in that they're announcing its tenure 3 years before. Plus, the longer we can get Tennant with his other acting committments, the better.

On the other hand, 2009 is going to be a very long and boring year as far as TV goes. I hardly watch anything else on BBC, so can I pay my license fee in three special payments for each of the specials?

Scarecrow

09-03-2007, 07:33 PM

I wonder if also David Tennant might want some time off after his mother's passing? A friend I know was a Featured Extra on Voyage of the Damned and said he seemed very distant and quiet on the shoot. Plus time to do other things.

Thing is, DW is exhausting work. I think this is a good sign for DT staying on though. If he was too leave after the specials then there might not be much POINT, they could re-cast and do S5 then. But if DT WANTS to stay as the Doctor then having the Specials to give him a break before returning to the regular format makes sense.

How can ANYONE be DAFT enough to think this isn't good news? Do people forget the HIATUS or the CANCELLATION and the DECADE+ off TV, McGann aside? We're confirmed up until 2010 and beyond That's AMAZING!

- Scarecrow

sickboy

09-03-2007, 08:39 PM

I'm sorry, anyone who thinks working on the set of Doctor Who for a few months a year is hard wants to go out in the real world and try a proper job. Even within TV people manage to make 24 episode seasons... These guys make 13 a season, and do a Doctor-lite episode to cover the 13th. Are you telling me Sarah Michelle Gellar didn't work as hard on Buffy as Tennant does on DW?

This is a ludicrous decision by the BBC, playing up to the vanity of two people. I would imagine stage work is much more demanding than television work, so Tennant taking a break isn't right. And you can bet your bottom dollar that RTD is gonna be working on other stuff. The show shouldn't be put on hiatus to wait for them while they do other stuff.

For a start it makes no financial sense- you're giving up your time slot which at the moment you rule and risk something coming along and filling it, thereby hurting your return. There's also a very very big child fanbase who will change dramatically in that time. There's 9 months between series as it is- so this isn't a 12 month wait it's 21 months. Series 5 is not confirmed until it's in production and with such a long gap in between it leaves a lot of time for things to go downhill.

Tennant is an amazing Doctor (though Moffat replacing RTD is currently my dream) but not worth screwing with the schedule for.
ADDED:
Added to which, Tennant still hasn't confirmed he's coming back. So that says to me it's to accomodate a head writer who isn't as good as some of the other writers, and has been tipped to be leaving for a wlong time.

FinalBeyond

09-03-2007, 10:13 PM

Even within TV people manage to make 24 episode seasons... These guys make 13 a season, and do a Doctor-lite episode to cover the 13th. Are you telling me Sarah Michelle Gellar didn't work as hard on Buffy as Tennant does on DW?

Depends how long the episodes are, doesn't it?

This is a ludicrous decision by the BBC, playing up to the vanity of two people.

Whoa whoa whoa. Who said this is down to Tennant or RTD? Have either of them said "I asked for this break" or "They're doing this for me"? I don't think this is for vanity.

I would imagine stage work is much more demanding than television work, so Tennant taking a break isn't right. And you can bet your bottom dollar that RTD is gonna be working on other stuff. The show shouldn't be put on hiatus to wait for them while they do other stuff.

Even though I wish we did have a full season, the fact is, it isn't a hiatus, really. It's a reduction.

For a start it makes no financial sense- you're giving up your time slot which at the moment you rule and risk something coming along and filling it, thereby hurting your return. There's also a very very big child fanbase who will change dramatically in that time.

Kind of agree there. ITV are going to pull ahead in the ratings for a while.

There's 9 months between series as it is- so this isn't a 12 month wait it's 21 months. Series 5 is not confirmed until it's in production and with such a long gap in between it leaves a lot of time for things to go downhill.

Series 5 is confirmed. Officially. :p

Again, while I don't like the idea of time without Who, things didn't go downhill after the old hiatus. Indeed, it got better. Much as I love Curse of Fenric and some of the other late 80s episodes, we've got more consistent awesomeness now.

Tennant is an amazing Doctor (though Moffat replacing RTD is currently my dream) but not worth screwing with the schedule for.

I think if we get him for longer, it is worth it. Not only is he a fantastic Doctor, but it means we get to ignore that old 13-Regeneration chestnut for longer. There's any number of ways they could get around it, but the longer we can avoid it, the better.
Besides, when William Hartnell couldn't perform at certain times, they made the Doc unconscious for episodes on end, I seem to recall from my readings. If they'd have jumped forward to Troughton instead, we'd have missed out on some excellent stuff.

Added to which, Tennant still hasn't confirmed he's coming back. So that says to me it's to accomodate a head writer who isn't as good as some of the other writers, and has been tipped to be leaving for a wlong time.

Well, putting aside the fact that it does accomodate Tennant, who is coming back for this specials series, and indeed the fact that we don't know it's to 'accomodate' RTD, I've got to say RTD was, in Series 3, on par with the best of them, in my opinion. Gridlock, Utopia, The Sound Of Drums and Last Of The Time Lords were spectacular.

Scarecrow

09-03-2007, 10:32 PM

Buffy is American. Doctor Who is British. 14 episodes year is a hell of a lot of a UK show.

AND Buffy had a vast cast, as do more uS shows. Look at heroes, characters can not appear for 2 episodes at time. Tennant is in nearly every scene in Doctor Who. It's a different system, a different way of making TV. 14 episodes a year is a hell of a lot for a UK show of this nature.

This is just fearmongering and attacks that have no basis in fact. Seaosn 5 is confirmed and 2009 will see 3 specials (I'd imagine at least the equivalent of 4 episodes worht of material at an hour each) in place of the usual 13 episode series to allow for certain other things we don't know of as yet.

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

09-03-2007, 10:36 PM

Also, shows like Buffy take place on roughly the same amount of sets each week. The same old cemetary redressed, the Magic Box/library, just a new monster suit every week or so. Where as Doctor Who takes place on radically different worlds every week, with tons of CGI and such to build those worlds and brand new casts every week.

Also, RTD isn't just the head writer. People may or may not like his episodes but RTD DOES have one of the most gruelling jobs. It's not all fun and "Yay! I get to create Doctor Who stories every week!" He is involved in EVERY aspect of production. From costumes to set design to "Should we ADR this line or that line?" Every single hour of every single waking day is devoted to one of these aspects. When he's not casting, he's discussing story ideas. When he's not doing that, he has to decide on whether the alien would look better with jaws or fangs. When he's not doing that, he's frantically rewriting other people's scripts to make it fit better for this reason or that. And when he's not doing any of that, he has to rework everyone's schedule in order that they can get Actor A for Episode 4, while still maintaining the budget enough to get enough CGI to make a large spaceship for Episode 7. And while doing all of that, think of a joke funny enough to make children laugh, adults giggle and fanboys punch air in Episode 12. All while doing this for Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures too.

AND on top of that, he produces good scripts. Yeah, maybe not as good as what Moffat's doing then or now, but they're at the very least enjoyable in one way and many times can be extraordinary. Yeah, we all love Moffat and he's proven himself as a damn fine writer, but can he do all of that? Would he want to do all of that? RTD doesn't just come in, write scripts and have people make them. The fact he can produce work of THIS much quality week after week (even if there's an episode you may not enjoy for this reason or another) is extraordinary and I don't know if someone else can do it. Working this hard on a project this large would be gruelling to anyone. I'm a big fan of Doctor Who, but above all, I care about people and their health (it's why I don't care that Eccelston only did one season; his dad was very ill at the time) and well-being above all. RTD has produced damn fine Who. A Golden Age. And if he wants to take some time off to cool down before continuing making it, I honestly don't see the problem.

sickboy

09-03-2007, 10:53 PM

Depends how long the episodes are, doesn't it?
Buffy is about three or four minutes per episode shorter I think. But then they do do 9 extra episodes.

Whoa whoa whoa. Who said this is down to Tennant or RTD? Have either of them said "I asked for this break" or "They're doing this for me"? I don't think this is for vanity.
So we are to assume it's being 'reduced' for the sake of the storyline or the fans, and is nothing to do with them wanting to do other things?

Kind of agree there. ITV are going to pull ahead in the ratings for a while.
If ITV manage to establish something that pulls ratings in that time slot be prepared for Doctor Who to suffer. It's had an easy ride because noone wants to go up against it, but while it's away fully expect something to jump in.

Series 5 is confirmed. Officially. :p

Intentions are one thing, but what if these three TV movies don't pull the right ratings? We could see Season 5 axed. They have a system that works- it's entertaining and it pulls ratings. We now have to hope that there is enough hype left over for these three movies to make sure season 5 gets made.

Again, while I don't like the idea of time without Who, things didn't go downhill after the old hiatus. Indeed, it got better. Much as I love Curse of Fenric and some of the other late 80s episodes, we've got more consistent awesomeness now.

Indeed they did get better. Of course we did get a completely reinvented show :P

I think if we get him for longer, it is worth it. Not only is he a fantastic Doctor, but it means we get to ignore that old 13-Regeneration chestnut for longer. There's any number of ways they could get around it, but the longer we can avoid it, the better.

Holding onto him is important I admit. But not at the expense of a whole year of the series. The actor should never be bigger than the show, and when you're changing the entire format to fit round people... really the show is coming second.

Well, putting aside the fact that it does accomodate Tennant, who is coming back for this specials series, and indeed the fact that we don't know it's to 'accomodate' RTD, I've got to say RTD was, in Series 3, on par with the best of them, in my opinion. Gridlock, Utopia, The Sound Of Drums and Last Of The Time Lords were spectacular.

RTD's episodes tend to suffer with the hokey side of things- tuning into the psychic energy of the whole earth through archangel and then levitating through the air just stank to me. Not to mention Doomsday and Army of Ghosts managing to somehow have both he Daleks and the Cybermen in the same finale and have them do nothing but trash talk each other and then achieve sweet FA.

Alex DeLarge

09-03-2007, 11:01 PM

I've said many, many times if Moffat had brought the series back and did 5-8 episodes per seasons (plus ALL of those things I stated) and RTD only had to focus one, Moffat would suffer from that same, occasional lack of quality RTD does (and the criticism from SOME, not all, of the fans) and RTD would be viewed as the God of All Whovians that Moffat is after his extraordinary episodes are aired.

sickboy

09-03-2007, 11:18 PM

Buffy is American. Doctor Who is British. 14 episodes year is a hell of a lot of a UK show.
Because it's British it's harder to make?

AND Buffy had a vast cast, as do more uS shows. Look at heroes, characters can not appear for 2 episodes at time. Tennant is in nearly every scene in Doctor Who. It's a different system, a different way of making TV. 14 episodes a year is a hell of a lot for a UK show of this nature.

Stargate SG1. Core cast of 4. New and different words each week. Lots of special effects. I really do wish people would stop pretending like Tennant has the hardest job in the world.

This is just fearmongering and attacks that have no basis in fact. Seaosn 5 is confirmed
Fearmongering? I dont think so. I'm just a pissed off fan who now has to wait 21 months between two seasons of one of his favourite shows (with only three TV specials to keep me going). I guarantee my nephew will lose interest. Children are fickle, you need to hold their atention, not dissapear for nearly two years.

See above comments re: season 5. They fully intend to make it, but I'm not gonna celebrate til it actually ges into production. It's no coincidence they've announced the 5th season at the same time as announcing the break. They're saying "yes we've screwed you, but don't worry we're not cancelling it". Seems an odd thing to celebrate.

Scarecrow

09-03-2007, 11:39 PM

Haven't screwed anyone, they don't owe you Doctor Who, they went without making ti for years but it seems people forget that so easily. And it seems you want them to SACK David Tennant just because he MAY or MAY NOT want a break (maybe even mourn his mother, we don't knoa ANYTHING)? Doctors leave when they don't ant the role, Colin bakler aside and thta was a travesty. Tennant obviously want sto continue, this break works for everyone.

Accept some fans, it seems, who feels the show a) owes them and b)don't understand how how TV production works. It takes 9 months to make 14 episodes. Again Stargate re-uses sets, spreads itscast out, uses the same forests and props... and probably has a hire budget as well. At the end of the day, either do some research and prove the productions are the same or don't make wild accusations.

Well, thats bad luck for your nephew. I guarantee may other kids won't escially with sarah jane, Torchwood and the specials eing MAJOR events, like christmas is every year.

And actually it's not 3 specials in 21 months because there's also the 2008 Xmas episode. Which is in a normal slot. So the gap starts from there, the ONLY change is 3 specials in the space of a normal season. and hey, if tey turn out yto be (total fabrication, but hey its going around) 90 minutes ecah that'd be equivalent to 6 episodes anyway...a NORMAL length UK series.

- Scarecrow

The Dark Vampire

09-03-2007, 11:48 PM

To be honest I would love to see it but can wait I've been waiting over 8 years for series 9 of Red Dwarf which they still claim will be made one day but they want to make the movie first but I've heard they may just go ahead with series 9 before it's to late (I think it would be a good idea and could even help the movie been made)

BYW I wouldn't of mined as much if series 8 didn't end on a cliffhanger

Alex DeLarge

09-04-2007, 12:01 AM

No offense, but I'll stop pretending Tennant has the hardest job in the world when you stop pretending he doesn't. Until we walk in Tennant's shoes, we really don't know one way or another.

sickboy

09-04-2007, 12:33 AM

Haven't screwed anyone, they don't owe you Doctor Who, they went without making ti for years but it seems people forget that so easily.
Maybe screwed was to harsh a word... dissapointed is a better one. "never mind guys, I know you're dissapointed we're not doing a series this year, but next year's is gonna happen like you expected". I never watched the old series so the gap there doesn't affect me. They don't owe me anything personally, of course, they probably don't owe the fans that give them their ratings anything either :side:

And it seems you want them to SACK David Tennant just because he MAY or MAY NOT want a break (maybe even mourn his mother, we don't knoa ANYTHING)?
But we do know he has other work lined up. That's not taking a break to mourn his mother now is it. This mourning stuff is nonsensey. If he went away for a while to do that I could completely understand it. But he's not. He's already got two stage plays. That's not taking time out to mourn. That's taking time out to do other things.

If he is very successful in what he does in the gap he won't be back for season 5. It's a win win situation for him. He can go away, try to break into other things, and if it works great, if not he's got a great job to go back to. I don't fault him for it, hell, wish I could do that.

Doctors leave when they don't ant the role, Colin bakler aside and thta was a travesty. Tennant obviously want sto continue, this break works for everyone.

Tell me honestly, if Tennant was staying no matter what, would you honestly think this break was a good idea? Can you honestly tell me that this is the best idea in the world, that this is what you would have wanted, not what you're being forced to settle for?

At the end of the day, either do some research and prove the productions are the same or don't make wild accusations. I'm not saying the productions are identical, I'm saying that it seems Doctor Who fans think that making the show is a traumatic experience and is the hardest thing in the world. You've not presented a single shred of evidence to show that making Doctor Who is the slightest bit more difficult than making any other show. So what if SG1 uses the same sets again and again... unless you want to claim Tennant builds the sets every week I don't see how that would make his job more difficult. I would also point out that the writers and producers still need 22 different stories each week- RTD only needs 13.

Well, thats bad luck for your nephew. I guarantee may other kids won't escially with sarah jane, Torchwood and the specials eing MAJOR events, like christmas is every year. My 6 year old nephew would enjoy torchwood, but his mum would kill me if I let him watch it ;). He's not the slightest bit interested in SJS, it's the doctor who holds his attention. To quote Jeans: "It would kill the show's forward momentum. The children in the audience would move and find another show to embrace, Doctor Who would fall out of style. ".

DW is very much in style at the moment, if it starts switching to specials interest will wane. You hardcore fans should be irrelevant in their decision making because you're gonna jump at whatever they present you with. Joe Public is a lot more fickle. I really don't see how they thought this made good business sense.

And actually it's not 3 specials in 21 months because there's also the 2008 Xmas episode. Which is in a normal slot. So the gap starts from there, the ONLY change is 3 specials in the space of a normal season. and hey, if tey turn out yto be (total fabrication, but hey its going around) 90 minutes ecah that'd be equivalent to 6 episodes anyway...a NORMAL length UK series.
Okay, so we get 4 specials in 21 months, not three. I'll give you that point. Of course, you harp on about a "NORMAL length UK series"... and I'm still bewildered as to why that's important. A normal length Doctor Who series is 12 episodes, and I would expect it to follow that convention, rather than just sticking to the norm. Actually, come to think of it... I can't think of any 6 episode UK series... not to say there isn;t any, just none spring to mind.

ADDED:
Simple. Tennant and RTD are big fans themselves. They both love Who and the Whoniverse and all the characters, but work on Doctor Who is very, very hard.

I do believe you started the whole pretending malarky :D

I think this is going nowhere (fanboy vs cynic never goes well it seems). I'll agree to disgree on this one, it's becoming pretty clear it's just a matter of opinion. Though I will give one piece of advice: if you want Tennant back for S5 then make sure you dont watch anything else he's in during 2009 :D

I need to be up for work in 6 hours so I'm going to withdraw for the night.

Just Jeans

09-04-2007, 01:05 AM

So what if SG1 uses the same sets again and again... unless you want to claim Tennant builds the sets every week I don't see how that would make his job more difficult.

It's less about the sets and more about the workload. David Tennant double bills in a show that lacks an ensemble cast, which is what makes it easier for American shows to produce huge seasons. They've got multiple units shooting at once. David is in nearly every scene in the series. It's an altogether different beast to American (ensemble-cast) shows. The evidence is in print -- both Johnathan Blum has written about it at length in public, and 'The Inside Story' goes into detail on the day-to-day grind of making Doctor Who. It's an interesting read, or so I'm told.

There's also the double-banking stories. The nine month work load is so heave that it has necessitated a Doctor-lite episode each series. They just don't have time to get the series out each March/April unless they have David filming one story while an entirely separate story is filming at once.

Incidentally, I'm a huge fan boy, and I love David Tennant. Regardless, I'd still prefer he clear off at the end of series four as opposed to holding up the production of a fifth series so that he can pursue other ventures (the two plays with the RSC end in November, but then will very probably move to London after a brief world tour, which means he'll be dedicated to both plays well into 2009). Bless David Tennant... but he isn't the end-all be-all of Doctor Who. The show can survive without him just as much as it did without Tom Baker (the quality of the Doctors following is subjective, but that doesn't change the fact the show lasted another seven years).

I just read the press release from the BBC. Bullshit.

Still, three specials in 2009 is better than nothing, but I'm not particularly happy about the gap. :meh:

Alex DeLarge

09-04-2007, 01:14 AM

Again, let's remember, as of now, we have NO idea why it's on a break. Tennant, RTD, technical stuff (I heard someone say something about HD), the BBC genuinely thought this would be for the best, we don't know as of right now...
ADDED:
As long as the quality for the '09 Specials and '10 series are as spectacular as ever, I do not see any problem with the gap whatsoever.

Just Jeans

09-04-2007, 01:27 AM

Quality is all fine and well. But I like having constants in my life. Three specials ain't constant.

Pay me no mind. I'm just bitter. :meh: I'll watch it and I'll like it even if it's shit, 'coz I love Doctor Who. Now I'm off to watch The Sontaran Experiment for the first time.

Alex DeLarge

09-04-2007, 01:51 AM

I wonder how they will handle the DVD situation. Three seperate DVD releases, ala the classic series? A three-in-one box-set? Wait til the Series 5 DVDs?

Just Jeans

09-04-2007, 10:36 AM

Doctor Who is a multi-million pound cash cow. I'd bet the farm that the BBC releases each special as a vanilla, and then after the third special has aired, they'll release them together in a "Special Deluxe Sell Your Kids to the Neighbor To Afford It Box Set". Mind you, we probably won't see any of them in the United States until all three have aired. Knowing our luck, the SCI-FI Channel will wait until the 2010 series is about to air to even show them, and we'll probably be lucky if the landscape within the SCI-FI Channel hasn't changed so much that Bonnie Hammer wants to give the series a pass altogether. :meh:

It's going to be a long couple of years.

The Dark Vampire

09-04-2007, 10:52 AM

Doctor Who was named best loved drama for the second year in a row,

David Tennant was named best actor, but Freema Agyeman and Billie Piper were both beaten in the best actress category by Jill Halfpenny.
Credit>http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_6970000/newsid_6977300/6977397.stm

Spin-off Torchwood was voted best new drama at the bash — also attended by beauties Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and Danielle Lloyd.

Credit>http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001320029-2007410159,00.html

FinalBeyond

09-04-2007, 11:39 AM

sickboy

09-04-2007, 12:41 PM

Still, the cleverest thing for BBC to do in 2009 would be to do some reruns of classic Who. It'd garner a lot more attention than when they last decided to try it - in a rubbish way, no less, ending up doing about 5 Pertwee stories in the wrong order on BBC2.

No, the cleverest thing would have been for (I'll put spoilers cos it does contain some existing plot details) the Master to have switched bodies with the doctor, for the Doctor (now looking like Simm) to have defeated the Tennant Master and kept him in stasis until he could work out how to get back into his own body without killing one or both of them. Cue the theme for Season 4 being identity (he's no longer just the last of the time lords, technically he's parts of two of them). Martha would leave for the first part of the season because she can't deal with him looking like the guy who caused her and her family so much misery, and of course, Donna wouldn't believe it's him at first.

As well as that, when he does the harsh things that he does from time to time he's now doing them in the body of someone evil, and that terrifies him. Donna mentioned he needs a companion to help keep him in check, which is exactly why he goes to her- he feels he needs someone to restrain him.

Would also add an element of danger to his existence- he doesn't know whether he can regenerate in the wrong body or not. And it would have been a non-cheap way of having the Master escape to fight another day. Then of course give him his own body back when Tennant wants to return.

That way, we get a Simm doctor for a season, there's no break in seasons and we get Tennant back at the end.

FinalBeyond

09-04-2007, 06:13 PM

Ok, so how would this happen? Shall we get a TARDIS and tell RTD to do Last Of The Time Lords in a different way? I was trying to suggest something that could feasibly happen. :p

sickboy

09-04-2007, 07:05 PM

Ok, so how would this happen? Shall we get a TARDIS and tell RTD to do Last Of The Time Lords in a different way? I was trying to suggest something that could feasibly happen. :p

Ha! If you think the BBC doing anything sensible is feasible then you're living in a weird universe!

Besides which, Doctor Who travels in time every week... now thinking about it that'd make a cool episode... they go back and revisit the events of a previous ep but change something and it shows how wrong it could have gone...

Scarecrow

09-04-2007, 08:31 PM

I think that's an awful idea and an awful plot that I'm glad wouldn't get done. Not just saying that, I really don't like it myself. I'm glad to have a Season Four and with tennant.

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-04-2007, 11:15 PM

Considering we've actually got no clue why the BBC are resting the series in 2009 -- Tennant wanting to do other things is just fan speculation -- even a plot like the one you suggested, sick, might not have been able to keep the show on for a full run in 2009.

Considering the BBC are planning on upgrading all of their programming to HD format by 2010, I reckon the break might have something to do with that. Doctor Who will be one of the last shows to go HD because of the massive amount of CGI work that is needed for the series, so they're probably working out a way to bring Doctor Who up to scratch for 2010 without the CGI taking double the length of time to render and costing them even more money.

sickboy

09-04-2007, 11:51 PM

My plot is 1 solution to 1 problem. I believe there are probably a million ways to keep the show in it's current format through 2009, they've just chosen not to. It'd be nice to hear their explanation as to why they're doing it, I hope it's because they have something really awesome up their sleeves for the specials and they desperately want to do them but can't fit them in on top of a normal series, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Let's hope I'm wrong.

As for cgi and HD, I would have thought it's just a case of the effects people working in higher res. Yes that will require better equipment maybe, but for the day-to-day running of the show it wouldn't necessarily mean a thing. I'm not sure if the effect are produced in-house or not, so it may not affect them at all.

It occurred to me earier that three specials may not be so bad after all. I highly doubt Tennant will be back in 2010- he's a fantastic actor who will have the opportunity to try new things... so I would expect him to be inundated with offers of work. If in this gap he's a big success (which, let's face it, he will be) we'll be seeing the end of him. And that end will be in a special rather than a normal episode, which I think is a good thing (though his leaving is not :().

Having said that - and this is just speculation - trying to relaunch the regular 13 ep series after such a break and with a new star replacing an actor so respected in the role will turn a lot of the casual viewers off.

Just Jeans

09-05-2007, 01:10 AM

As for cgi and HD, I would have thought it's just a case of the effects people working in higher res. Yes that will require better equipment maybe, but for the day-to-day running of the show it wouldn't necessarily mean a thing. I'm not sure if the effect are produced in-house or not, so it may not affect them at all.

The effects are produced by The Mill (the guys who worked on Gladiator and the Harry Potter films). They also do the special effects for Torchwood, which is shot in High Definition. According to Phil Collinson and the blokes at The Mill, the higher cost and longer rendering times play a large part in why Doctor Who hasn't gone to HD while many of their other shows -- including Torchwood -- have. Torchwood has less than half the number of special effects shots as Doctor Who, but they spend nearly as much time creating those effects due to the difference between High Def and Digibeta (the current format on which Doctor Who is shot).

They've been working on ways to bring Doctor Who up to date with the rest of BBC's programming by 2010, but they've yet to find a solution that doesn't involve slashing the number of episodes or slashing the amount of special effects work The Mill does for the show.

So I wouldn't be shocked if the High Definition issue plays a part in their slowing production.

Having said that - and this is just speculation - trying to relaunch the regular 13 ep series after such a break and with a new star replacing an actor so respected in the role will turn a lot of the casual viewers off.

I doubt that. But it seems the BBC's faith in "the brilliant concept that is regeneration" just isn't what it once was. :side:

Scarecrow

09-05-2007, 08:42 AM

Eccleston leaving was leaked by the papers after ONE episode. It didn't kill the show then. This won't kill the show now.

And The Mill do their best but DW has SO many effects, as Jean says. HD is unforgiving, the Beast works as it is but try making that HD and that's a hell of a lot more work, a ton more detail they have to build. It's certainly an issue.

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-05-2007, 08:50 AM

Eccleston leaving was leaked by the papers after ONE episode. It didn't kill the show then. This won't kill the show now.

I assume you're talking about the idea of Tennant leaving the show. If so, I agree -- the show is bigger than Tennant, and while I love him as the Doctor, it isn't going to flounder if he goes. However, there seems to be this sort of feeling building at Outpost Gallifrey that Doctor Who can't live without Tennant. Everyone is so keen to give Tennant time off if it means he's staying on, but it seems like it's less out of love for his Doctor and more out of fear that once he's gone, the general public will lose interest and the show will be canceled.

Apparently, a lot of them have forgotten that the show has never died as a result of the regeneration concept, and it even managed to go on for another 8 years after its most popular Doctor finally hung up his scarf.

As I said, I really like Tennant in the role, but if the only reason the BBC is shuffling around the schedule for series 5 is to keep Tennant onboard for at least the 2009 specials, then I'll be disappointed.

My money is on Tennant regenerating at the end of his last special. I reckon the break in production has to do with multiple things -- including the BBC wanting to keep Tennant on. My theory is that the 2009 specials will be done by RTD, meanwhile a new production team are gearing up for pre-production on the 2010 series. This gives RTD's successor plenty of time to work out what he/she wants to do with the programme, what kind of direction he/she wants to go, and who he/she wants to cast as the Doctor.

sickboy

09-05-2007, 11:03 AM

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying- Tennant leaving at the end of one series and being immediately replaced wouldn't be the end of the world. There'd be some continuity to the show.

What I think may be a turn-off is the bigger gap, change to the format for a year then followed by the new doctor. It'll make people feel detached, like it's a brand new show when it comes back. This is the first experience of Who for a lot of people, so they don't appreciate the gap there was before (admittedly I'm part of that group)

To simplify- I don't think Tennant leaving will be so bad, so long as the timing is right (and Freema stays on, I think Rose's popularity went a long way to helping the transition from Chris to David).

For HD, it just seems like a really stupid decision to me. "Let's make all our shows HD, regardless of difficulty, cost, time involved, etc". I personally can live without HD. I have a 32" LCD HD TV, but really don't care about it when it comes to TV. We have sufficient quality at the moment to fully enjoy the show and its effects, so surely it's madness to perform meaningless upgrades for the sake of it? You say Torchwood is HD and DW isn't? I assume that's a fact you read/heard, rather than observed yourself, because can you honestly say there's a noticable difference?
ADDED:
My theory is that the 2009 specials will be done by RTD, meanwhile a new production team are gearing up for pre-production on the 2010 series. This gives RTD's successor plenty of time to work out what he/she wants to do with the programme, what kind of direction he/she wants to go, and who he/she wants to cast as the Doctor.

I could live with that.

Just Jeans

09-06-2007, 12:00 AM

For HD, it just seems like a really stupid decision to me. "Let's make all our shows HD, regardless of difficulty, cost, time involved, etc".

It's all down to profit. The BBC need to drag themselves up-to-date if they want to market their material in countries where HD is becoming the standard (Japan, America, et cetera). Strictly speaking, the BBC aren't supposed to be thinking about profit -- that's what BBC Worldwide is for -- but of course they are, and so they're slowly catching up to the rest of the world. It's a tough market out there, and making the transition to HD is essential if the BBC want to continue playing on a worldwide field.

Doctor Who is practically the only show that's caused them any difficulty, and that's down to the special effects. It's all a bit of trial and error (I know they had to re-shoot hunks of Torchwood whilst they were still getting used to lighting and blocking with HD cameras).

I could live with that.

Me too. I'm not keen on the idea of a gap simply to accommodate Tennant, but if the gap is also there to help ease a new production team into their jobs, then I think that's perfectly understandable.

Scarecrow

09-06-2007, 10:46 PM

I'd hate to spread rumours and all but at least worth mentioning that a couple of DW news sites are suggestion that someone possibly may have discovered the missing Web of Fear. Wonderfully vague and I'm taking my usual stance of not believing a word of it.

- Scarecrow

Alex DeLarge

09-07-2007, 02:19 AM

A panel from the new Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Eight comic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/besstofthebest/Picture2-4.png

:D:D:D

Just Jeans

09-07-2007, 02:46 AM

That's awesome.

Scarecrow

09-07-2007, 08:08 AM

That is, as he says, most awesome. :D

- Scarecrow

FallOutGirl

09-09-2007, 08:31 PM

I enjoyed the last series.
Well, most of it.
I stopped watching it properly after Blink. I dunno why but the Master storyline didn't really thrill me.
My boyfriend however, will happily tell you how crazy he went when he found out the Master was back.
Crazy boy!

I really want the Scarecrow toy =(

Alex DeLarge

09-09-2007, 10:59 PM

I ADORED the Master trilogy. Loved every single second of it. From dobby Doctor to "magic use of psychic" to the Scissor Sisters, every single thing the vocal minority at OG complain about. It was by far my favorite finale so far. I found it interesting that the finales of both years disappointed me slightly in only one of the episodes (by dislike I mean, not my favorite by DW standards, if it was an episode of anything else, it'd probably by the best of the season).

Didn't really get into Bad Wolf that much, too much nudge-nudge-wink-wink for my tastes, too much time devoted to the game shows and the big "you lose, you die" revelations that you could see from a mile away, but the tension leading up to Parting was fantastic. POTW itself is some of the most perfect 45 minutes ever produced. The most perfect send-off for the Ninth Doctor he could have had. Right up there with Logopolis and the Caves of Androzani as the best regeneration story (poor Seventh... at least we can IMAGINE a fantastic one for McGann:p).

But reversed, I loved Army of Ghosts. Torchwood was fantastic, everything I wanted it to be, the build-up was extraordinary, even better than Bad Wolf, the Cybermen invasion is probably the best invasion done in DW and that moment with the Cybermen at the top of the stairs is probably in the top 5 PUREST Who moments. It's THOSE moments that scare kids out of their sofas. But Doomsday... lemme simplify it to this. Anything dealing with the Doctor, Rose, Jackie, Mickey, Pete, Jake, etc. I loved. I love those character moments. Some people complain about the "domestics," but I'm sorry, it's what lured me into Who. It's what told me this isn't Star Trek or some show of people on an Enterprise every week, encountering Zoobafest of the Planet Relphoid 6. But the Daleks and the Cybermen were BOTH extremely disappointing. The Cybermen turn into incompetant fools ONLY to show that the Daleks are better and the Daleks do nothing but argue and complain for 25 minutes in front of a big MacGuffin and then open it and release another "billions" army, that this time does absolutely nothing except exterminate one or two humans and make an even BIGGER joke of the Cybermen.

But every single second of Utopia, of the Sound of Drums, and of Last of the Time Lords astonished me. It is the definition of epic. I honestly cannot see a single problem with it. It is the most perfect comeback of the Master imaginable. It brought him back with as much build-up as you can possibly imagine, had one of Britans' greatest older actors introduce him, in a perfect, old series way, and then have one of Britan's greatest younger actors refine him, in a perfect, new series, Tenth Doctor way. It had the Master finally achieve world conquest and the defeat of the Doctor, and in a truly brilliant way, had him "win," even after all that. It gave us a Gallifrey flashback, featured a young Master and a perfect, non-cliched "Why they're evil" concept, gave us a reason why the Master came back to life (which is like the first time, ever: see Planet of Fire:p) and took many of the Master's best attributes (his hypnotism, his mirror image of the Doctor and their rivalery) and moments (like "Peoples of the... please attend carefully," and the Clangers/Teletubbies) and reworked them into new and dazzlign ways. After seeing it, I fell head over heels in love with both the character and John Simm. Dunno why... Is it the smile? Is it the aftershave? Is it the capacity to laugh at myself? I dunno, it's crazy! :D

P.S. I'm not one of those "RTD keeps writing the same finale!" people, but it's interesting to note, all three finales feature an extremely large army of cybernetic monsters made out of human beings. Just interesting to note. All three times it was fantastic and done in completely different ways.

Just Jeans

09-10-2007, 09:26 AM

The only problem I've got with the last three episodes of series 3 is that the Futurekind are absolutely useless. Apart from acting as a mechanism to put the Doctor, Martha and Jack in danger during the final ten minutes, they were absolutely useless. RTD could have replaced the Futurekind saboteur with any number of reasons for the rocket to malfunction so that Jack has to get into that room, which ultimately makes the Futurekind entirely superfluous. As a result, they're my least favorite villains in the entire run of the series.

But the last 15 minutes of the episode more than makes up for that, so it's still a 5/5 episode for me.

Oh, and the reset switch ending of The Last of the Time Lords annoyed me no end. It's not that I thought it was a cop out -- I actually think it was a perfectly logical resolution to the Doctor's thwarting of the Master's plan -- but I'm sick and tired of the people of Earth coming unto these big amazing events and never actually having to face further consequences as a result. They either write it off as drugs in the water or time is reversed and it never happened in the first place.

Jack likes to go on about how the 21st century is when everything changes, but the human race is so deliberately obtuse in the Doctor Who universe that I find Jack's assurances really hard to swallow. :meh:

FallOutGirl

09-11-2007, 11:38 AM

Was it just me that thought Banes would make a REALLY good Doctor?

He was cute as well.

Just Jeans

09-11-2007, 11:48 AM

In about 10 years, I wouldn't mind seeing Harry Lloyd play the Doctor. I think he's quite a good actor.

Currently, however, I'd rather not see him in the role. My stance on the character has always been that the actor playing him should never drop into the early-to-mid 20s age range. Peter Davison was pushing it at 29, but he looked older than his age, so it worked out in the end.

I don't think I could deal with seeing the Doctor played by a 24-year-old. Lloyd is younger than me for crying out loud. The Doctor shouldn't be younger than me until I'm in my late 30s.

Alex DeLarge

09-12-2007, 01:07 AM

Was it just me that thought Banes would make a REALLY good Doctor?

He was cute as well.

You're not the only one. RTD agrees with you...

And I agree about the Futurekind. They were a bit crap but they were barely in it and I totally forgot about them. And I also sort of agree about the reset, but I think in the context of LotTL, there was no other way to do it than to stop the paradox. Rather, the Cybermen should have had some effect. Slitheen, Sycorax, I can handle. But Cybermen? No way. Even as a "they were human creations" (which they were) not aliens. But wiping them out, no way. Today, 9/11, there was still a lot of focus about the terrorist acts, 6 years later. There's no way something like the Cybermen, not some big ship, but people INVADING and ENTERING HOMES would be forgotten. At all.

Scarecrow

09-12-2007, 08:23 AM

You're not the only one. RTD agrees with you...

And I agree about the Futurekind. They were a bit crap but they were barely in it and I totally forgot about them. And I also sort of agree about the reset, but I think in the context of LotTL, there was no other way to do it than to stop the paradox. Rather, the Cybermen should have had some effect. Slitheen, Sycorax, I can handle. But Cybermen? No way. Even as a "they were human creations" (which they were) not aliens. But wiping them out, no way. Today, 9/11, there was still a lot of focus about the terrorist acts, 6 years later. There's no way something like the Cybermen, not some big ship, but people INVADING and ENTERING HOMES would be forgotten. At all.

It doesn't seem to have been so much as forgotten as "glossed over". It seems to be in a collective consiousness of humanity as a terrorist act, though details are unclear due to, of course, the 'drugs in the water' theory. Intelligent types like Martha are certainly aware and Saxon did discuss is as part of his campaign as seen in Smith & Jones.

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-12-2007, 05:11 PM

Speaking of Saxon discussing the Slitheen crash, did anyone else have a good chuckle when the speech Saxon is giving on TV cuts to a shot of the Slitheen ship crashing, with that effect added to it to make it look like they somehow captured it on video as it was crashing? I don't know why, but I just had to laugh when I saw that.

Alex DeLarge

09-14-2007, 12:54 AM

It doesn't seem to have been so much as forgotten as "glossed over". It seems to be in a collective consiousness of humanity as a terrorist act, though details are unclear due to, of course, the 'drugs in the water' theory. Intelligent types like Martha are certainly aware and Saxon did discuss is as part of his campaign as seen in Smith & Jones.

- Scarecrow

I refuse to believe that. I'm sorry, but that's insanely stupid. They have video, they have physical evidence, as shown by Torchwood and Made of Steel. With 24 hour news networks, they would be showing those clips CONSTANTLY. There's absolutely no way it could be "glossed over." 9/11 had effects for YEARS. There's no way the "details would remain unclear."

Scarecrow

09-14-2007, 08:35 AM

They're the government, they can do whatever they like. :p

Besides, thats just the Cybermen and even the classic series had a vague approach to them. The Cybermen are suggested to be known and, perhaps, not even thought of as 'alien' as such. Sarah-Jane says "of course, I've heard of them" despite eing a modern person as they invaded Earth before. The Cybermen situation is kept vague but it does seem they are known about but, perhaps ndue to their nature, they aren't seen as ALIEN invaders as such, at leats by the public.

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-14-2007, 08:51 AM

The people of Earth would have to be familiar with the Cybermen after The Invasion (at least one would assume -- they did flood out of the sewers and swamp London).

Just Jeans

09-20-2007, 09:47 AM

I haven't read the issue, but apparently there's a blurb in this month's copy of Doctor Who Magazine that confirms a second volume of music from the current show is scheduled to be released before Christmas. A member on Outpost Gallifrey e-mailed Murray Gold's agent, and the agent apparently confirmed it, too.

Alex DeLarge

09-24-2007, 05:16 AM

Just dropped by to say I screamed so loud I woke up a neighbor when tonight's Family Guy episode featured the Tom Baker opening credits, complete with theme and Tom Baker's face. Ahem.

Scarecrow

09-24-2007, 08:18 AM

If the new Family Guy DVD doesn't come out soon there's gonna be blood! :p

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-24-2007, 06:21 PM

Just dropped by to say I screamed so loud I woke up a neighbor when tonight's Family Guy episode featured the Tom Baker opening credits, complete with theme and Tom Baker's face. Ahem.

My sister came in and told me about that. She was watching it last night, and she demanded I... acquire... the episode later on. She's keen for me to see it.

Brett H.

09-25-2007, 04:50 AM

I dunno what the hell Dr. Who is, and this may be completely unrelated, but I found this at an Atari forum I go to and figured I'd put it here.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113557

Scarecrow

09-25-2007, 08:22 AM

That's insanely silly. I love it!

- Scarecrow

DouglasJ

09-26-2007, 08:21 AM

Davros Boxset. For "Casual Buyers" apprentely.

Casual Buyers get a nice new, Remembrance Of The Daleks, 2 disc, with the previous releases missing special effects back in, documentaries... loads of special features.

No individual release, so people like me, who buy the releases when they come out can't get it without spending £80 and getting another 4 dvd's we allready have.

I don't think this would have happened had it just been the bbc/restoration team. Add 2 entertain into the mix and, pffft.

Mind you, they did put the new schedule into place, which means it'll be less than the estimated 12 or so years before everythings released...

Sorry for rambling.

Scarecrow

09-26-2007, 08:44 AM

It's called an incentive such as the set having all the Big Finish audios and an exclusive documentary. At any rate, Remembrance is being released on its own eventually, The RT have confirmed that, unofficially, but obviously it has to wait to give the box set a chance of selling first.

Patience is a virtue. ;)

- Scarecrow

Just Jeans

09-26-2007, 06:15 PM

At least you lot in the UK get the option of buying the Davros Set -- it's only coming out in region 2, and there are only going to be 10,000 copies. At least 2Entertain will be releasing the region 2 Key to Time box set in region 1 (thus marking the first example of a double-dipped Doctor Who box set to hit in the USA.)

Alex DeLarge

09-26-2007, 11:00 PM

Including the Big Finish audios is an AWESOME idea. I almost wish I could get it in Region 2 now; that is so cool. I'd say they could have included the books with Davros too by John Peel, but from what I've heard they're not that good.:p

sickboy

09-26-2007, 11:10 PM

The Davros Collection is an 8-disc DVD set that contains all five Doctor Who stories featuring Davros, the creator of the Doctor's deadliest enemies -THE DALEKS- that were broadcast on TV from 1975 through 1988 with 2 bonus discs of supplemental material exploring his early years and what he was doing between and after his appearances on TV.

1975 Genesis of the Daleks (2 discs) 4th Doctor with Sarah and Harry
1979 Destiny of the Daleks (1 disc) 4th Doctor with Romana II
1984 Resurrection of the Daleks (1 disc) 5th Doctor with Tegan and Turlough
1985 Revelation of the Daleks (1 disc) 6th Doctor with Peri
1988 Remembrance of the Daleks (1 disc) 7th Doctor with Ace

Bonus disc 1 Davros Connections - A history of the character using all the TV and audio stories in the set.

Bonus disc 2 Big Finish Audios - Original full-cast audio dramas starring the actors who played the Doctor on TV as well as Terry Molloy who essayed the role in 3 stories in the 1980's.

I, Davros: Innocence
I, Davros: Purity
I, Davros: Corruption
I, Davros: Guilt

This mini-series chronicles Davros' early life to just before Genesis of the Daleks.

Davros - Set between Resurrection and Revelation (6th Doctor)

The Juggernauts - Set between Revelation and Remembrance (6th Doctor)

Terror Firma - Set after Remembrance (8th Doctor)

The Davros Mission - Newly recorded for this release and set between Revelation and Remembrance.

Destiny of the Daleks is newly released with this set and is also available as a single.

Remembrance of the Daleks is a new Special Edition with remastered picture and sound upgraded and enhanced since it's first release in 2001.

It now has 2 new making of features as well as a new 5.1 soundtrack.

This collection is limited to 10,000 so if you want to get it you better get cracking!

It's got a £100 rrp... If I didn't plan on buying a Wacom then I might have considered it.

Shoesalesman

09-27-2007, 12:27 AM

I have the last two episodes (yes, even the two hour final) of season 3 on tape, which I plan to watch next week. There's a new series, Torchwood (?), on CBC on Friday evenings, starting on October 5th.

Since when did CBC become decent in their programming? :confused:

Alex DeLarge

09-27-2007, 12:33 AM

Two hour finale? The last episode of Series 3 is 53 minutes, under an hour!

Shoesalesman

09-27-2007, 12:36 AM

Two hour finale? The last episode of Series 3 is 53 minutes, under an hour!

I was informed that last week's episode was a two hour one. If that's the case... what 2 hour Doctor Who episode did I record last week?

Nevermind... I checked it out... the two hour one I taped last week was the last two episodes shown back to back.

Just Jeans

09-28-2007, 01:26 AM

They tend to cram the final two episodes together. They did it on SCI-FI with the season 2 finale, I think. The last two episodes in season 3 would make a good two hour block. I think SCI-FI might be doing that tomorrow, I'm not sure.
ADDED:
Bit of info about the episode set in Rome

Overseas filming for ambitious episode (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctor_donna/1024/23.jpg) (Spoilers!)

The Doctor and his new companion Donna are set to travel back in time to the Roman Empire for the fourth series of Doctor Who.

In one of the most ambitious episodes to date, The Doctor, played by David Tennant and Donna (Catherine Tate) arrive in Pompeii in AD 79, on the eve of the historic eruption of Mount Vesuvius.

The Time Lord and his companion are posed with an immediate dilemma; should they warn the residents of Pompeii of the forthcoming catastrophe or leave them to fend for themselves?

"Arriving in Pompeii marks the start of another exciting adventure for the Doctor and Donna," said Doctor Who's Executive Producer and Head Writer, Russell T Davies. "Donna is stunned to find herself in the midst of history's most famous volcanic eruption. Viewers can expect many more ambitious storylines and a whole host of guest stars in 2008."

The Thick of It actor Peter Capaldi guest stars as Caecillius. He's joined by Quadrophenia and Rose and Maloney actor Phil Davis as Lucius. Further guest stars include Howards Way and Born and Bred Actress Tracey Childs, who plays Metella.

The filming of the episode took place at Cinecitta studios in Rome, which the Doctor Who team expertly transformed into Pompeii for a week of filming in September of this year.

Brilliant stuff.